A patch won't save Halo 4 or the population!

When 343i was developing halo 4 they made game changing decisions that affected the core gameplay that left fans disgruntled, not a few stupid bugs that slipped through the cracks…

343i could have pretended that reach never happened and gone back to the halo style that worked, but they didn’t. When they didn’t return it to the former glory of the old style they set the precedent for Halo 5&6.

343i made poor decisions while developing that I, most of my friends,and fellow forum members are unhappy with like…

  • ordinance

  • no skill <mark>rank</mark>

  • level cap

  • xp cap

  • custom games

  • sprinting

  • loadouts

These characteristics define the game and can’t possible be fixed with and update. The population is decreasing because they are either being turned off by the CoD style or lack of Skill Rank. All we can do is hope for Halo 2 HD with its original multiplayer.

I honestly don’t care if I get flamed of people are gonna cry in the feedback that everyone posts stuff like this…Well its true Halo 4 failed and I have the right as a consumer to voice it. My voice combined with others who feel the same way together can be heard by 343 not alone.

P.S remember all those people who said “Wait until you play it!”

Ya, that turned out great!

edit

Ordinance is horrible because it rewards the players doing well, and there is no point in map control
The is no skill ranking (1-50) so there is no prestige, glory or any real reward in trying
Level cap is stupid because if you didn’t spend extra money or you live in Europe you can’t level any more
Xp cap is horrible because it is too low and the xp system is horrible anyway
The essentially made custom games useless when they stripped all creativity possibility
Sprinting is still op because you can still run around corners instead of having to stay and fight and try to out br
Loadouts are just so unbalanced compared to halo 3’s balance

Listing things you dislike without clarifying why they’re oh so terrible is just an awful argument.

> Listing things you dislike without clarifying why they’re oh so terrible is just an awful argument.

  • Ordinance is horrible because it rewards the players doing well, and there is no point in map control
  • The is no skill ranking (1-50) so there is no prestige, glory or any real reward in trying
  • Level cap is stupid because if you didn’t spend extra money or you live in Europe you can’t level any more
  • Xp cap is horrible because it is too low and the xp system is horrible anyway
  • The essentially made custom games useless when they stripped all creativity possibility
  • Sprinting is still op because you can still run around corners instead of having to stay and fight and try to out br
  • Loadouts are just so unbalanced compared to halo 3’s balance

lol. No skill, that my favorite one. Even if a game is unbalanced and broken, even if its complete garbage (which this game is neither) a better player will win over an unskilled player.

-Yoink- players say “it takes no skill” because they are routinely beaten and think they have skill, there for the game must take no skill. If the dmr is op, and a -Yoink- player and a good player duel, guess who wins? The one with skill.

Say what you will about one or two guns, or the loadout system, spawning, map design, ordinance, AA’s.

but here is a fact. Halo’s gun sandbox has never been more balanced. Excusing powerweapons every other halo has been a one gun game.

Halo 1 : pistol
Halo 2: BR
Halo 3 : BR
Reach: DMR

Even if the DMR is a bit OP, at close range there are at least 2 automatics that can beat you. That’s right, the AR, for the first time in Halo history is a viable weapon. And it may dominate at range, but up close a BR, carbine and LR can beat the DMR if a skilled player are using it. For the first time in halo history there might be a favored gun but it isn’t a one gun game as it always has been.

Exactly what I’ve been saying. No update or patch will save Halo 4 at this point. The games core mechanics are severely broken, I just don’t get why people are living in complete denial about it.

> When 343i was developing halo 4 they made game changing decisions that affected the core gameplay that left fans disgruntled, not a few stupid bugs that slipped through the cracks…
>
> 343i could have pretended that reach never happened and gone back to the halo style that worked, but they didn’t. When they didn’t return it to the former glory of the old style they set the precedent for Halo 5&6.
>
> 343i made poor decisions while developing that I, most of my friends,and fellow forum members are unhappy with like…
>
> - ordinance
> - no skill
>
> - level cap
> - xp cap
> - custom games
> - sprinting
> - loadouts
>
>
> These characteristics define the game and can’t possible be fixed with and update. The population is decreasing because they are either being turned off by the CoD style or lack of Skill Rank. All we can do is hope for Halo 2 HD with its original multiplayer.
>
> I honestly don’t care if I get flamed of people are gonna cry in the feedback that everyone posts stuff like this…Well its true Halo 4 failed and I have the right as a consumer to voice it. My voice combined with others who feel the same way together can be heard by 343 not alone.
>
> P.S remember all those people who said “Wait until you play it!”
>
> Ya, that turned out great!

This thread was predicted back in July…

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHNRygbiJ8I&sns=em
>
> Months in advanced… We all saw it coming.

The only thing that irks me is personal ordinance. It puts to many power weapons on the map at once, and that’s where things start to get frustrating because the game basically turn into a power weapon fest.

I say they add “Slayer” (not infinity slayer) and “Big Team Battle” (not Big team infinity slayer). Not exactly classic playlists, but playlists without power weapons popping up every two minutes.

As for the other things, a patch could indeed add a “Classic” playlist for the guys like you, OP, who only want to enjoy a good game of pure Halo. I know I would! :slight_smile:

I benched this game to replay Final Fantasy 13-2, because Halo 4 multiplayer is not relaxing at all. So yep I agree this game needs to change in order for it to have any lasting power

> Listing things you dislike without clarifying why they’re oh so terrible is just an awful argument.

lol here you go:

> But I will tell you what’s exciting. It’s exciting to know that if you die, you will wait 3 seconds before you spawn. If you die, you are giving your opponent the chance to grab weapons, to create a counter offensive in an objective based game, to seize control of the map and effectively make it harder for your teammates, whom are now down to 3 players as you are still spawning, to keep a cool and stay alive. What matters is that you’re dead, and your teammates need you more than ever because of this.
>
> -
>
> sprinting slows down the game and is a “Casual mechanic.” People will try to sprint away from aggressors whom they believe have an advantage over them (either because they’ve had the first shot, you’re screwing up, or they’ve caught you by surprise, etc). So in the end you try and escape - you try and prolong the inevitable. Sprint slows down the game in this sense. Sprint would also be completely stupid to use as an offensive method. Rushing into the enemy won’t give you any sort of advantage. It’ll get you killed. There’s a higher chance the opponent has an ally next to him. Not only that but when you sprint you’re offense-less and in most cases, especially in gametypes with radar, you will get shot first as you sprint.
>
> Sprint is a horribad addition to the series.
>
>
> Also, AA are most definitely not substitutes for Halo 3’s equipment. You had to grab the equipment from its spawn area. Here you spawn every time with some ability. Two different things.
>
> _
>
> Skill is an important factor when determining sprint’s (and instant respawns) legitimacy. Why should you be given the chance to escape a death you deserve? Why should your enemy have to suffer from a 2 v 1 when actually you spawned far enough that his 1 v 1 was a potential success (if you didn’t have sprint)? In this sense, in fact, it is hard to make good decisions when taking the offensive: you never know when an opponent is going to come at you, when normally, without sprint (and instant respawns), you were able to correctly understand the tensions on the map, where your enemies could be, and how much time you have to pursue someone or something. Instant respawning only helps sprint in this respect (in fact instant respawning is as responsible or even more so in this regard). Again, this analysis supports the classic run-and-gun freestyle chaos of a FPS that Halo never was until today.
>
> -
>
> Weapons don’t spawn on map and only at the beginning with signs telling you where they are for everyone. Ordinance drops rewards players. Not only that but it creates randomness and chaotic matches. Map control becomes irrelevant at this point. Sprint for the casuals as well. Armor abilities, you know the deal: they need to be eliminated.
>
>
> _
>
> Also, the incentive for teamwork is to win a match, not to scrap “points.” This is some superficial aspect forced on Halo since Reach (with all the glorifying of medals and -blam!-). Selfish ambition doesn’t always equate to mutual efforts. In fact it really is the other way around, encouraging players to do things on their own in pursuit of personal satisfaction. Winning? Who cares about winning in Halo 4? All you need to do to advance is to play.
>
>
> _
>
> the new game design since reach has encouraged players to give their teammates the middle finger when asked to play cooperatively. I remember saying this in a thread about hating Halo 4 if you disliked Halo Reach.
>
>
> It’s so sad. Halo 4 went even further into this direction. As a long time admirer of Halo, I can’t help but say that I was right at the time, and that I am right today.
>
> Halo 4 has the potential to be good, just like the review said. It just needs to take away and/or severely tweak these new game designs. Ordnance drops…instant respawns…no weapon spawns…armor abilities. People who think this is good don’t know what Halo was and why it was praised.
>
>
> -
>
> Revisit Halo 2 to check on that run speed. There’s an unnoticeable difference. I don’t even think it’s faster than CE’s, and if it’s faster than 3’s, barely. And that’s not enough to warrant some incredibly game changing mechanic like sprint. (Honestly it just doesn’t belong in this series).
>
> And what genre are you trying to take Halo as? It’s a motherucking FPS. You don’t need to be next to the opponent to be “in the action.” You spawn at Banshee on Ascension and you are visible from both towers of the map. That’s the great thing about Halo multiplayer. The maps are well designed in that you take advantage of its layout and what’s in it. Constantly engaged, but constantly just arms length away from protection. Sprint is totally unnecessary.
>
>
> -
>
> Sprint increases the pace of the game, meaning that things are happening very quickly. “Rushing” occurs very often (run-and-gun). People are constantly heading in and out of battle and things are chaotic. That’s what I mean by fast. The sense of slowing down is in the case of chasing/dueling. Solid dueling encounters (better man wins scenarios) are less frequent and kills in this regard are prolonged. Without sprint, the pace of the game is slower. Coordination as a team becomes more prevalent and engagements are a steady pace.
>
>
> -
>
> What people don’t seem to understand about what made Halo Halo was the fact that everything was a fight. With regards to AA’s, these are not found in the map to be picked up and used by the player. In stead, you are free to use it at almost any time at will to give yourself an advantage over your opponent - this is, to the very core, unfair. What would make it different is that you had to fight for that advantage.
>
> In Halo 3 you had equipment scattered in various maps such as bubble shield, or power drainer, or regenerators. Yes, if you have them, you have an offensive or defense advantage, depending on what you picked up. But what must be understood here is that that piece of equipment wasn’t given to you, it was fought over by you and your opponent (generic case). You both have equal opportunity. It’s the showdown of personal skill and/or team work. Assessment of the map and grabbing the upper hand is all in the process. That’s the skill and hence the balance that makes Halo as a FPS triumph.

> lol. No skill, that my favorite one. Even if a game is unbalanced and broken, even if its complete garbage (which this game is neither) a better player will win over an unskilled player.
>
> Yoink! players say “it takes no skill” because they are routinely beaten and think they have skill, there for the game must take no skill. If the dmr is op, and a Yoink! player and a good player duel, guess who wins? The one with skill.
>
> Say what you will about one or two guns, or the loadout system, spawning, map design, ordinance, AA’s.
>
> but here is a fact. Halo’s gun sandbox has never been more balanced. Excusing powerweapons every other halo has been a one gun game.
>
> Halo 1 : pistol
> Halo 2: BR
> Halo 3 : BR
> Reach: DMR
>
> Even if the DMR is a bit OP, at close range there are at least 2 automatics that can beat you. That’s right, the AR, for the first time in Halo history is a viable weapon. And it may dominate at range, but up close a BR, carbine and LR can beat the DMR if a skilled player are using it. For the first time in halo history there might be a favored gun but it isn’t a one gun game as it always has been.

if you look two posts down I said no skill as in no skill rank

> - ordinance
> - no skill
>
> - level cap
> - xp cap
> - custom games
> - sprinting
> - loadouts
>
[/quote]
Cracks knuckles Let’s do this.
>
> Ordinance: Actually, I’ll agree. Personal ordinance does invalidate power weapons and can radically throw off a map’s weapon balancing (random ordinance does the same thing). However, in Customs, random ordinance and personal ordinance can be disabled, and, using Forge, initial ordinance can be made to function on a timer like power weapons of olde.
>
> No Skill: This argument never makes sense. There are more types of skill in an FPS than being a good shot. Knowing when to go for / not to go for a weapon, cooperating with your team, use of cover, ambushing, and general cleverness in tactics can all give you an edge over an opponent that may be likely to shoot your face off in an even one-on-one.
>
> Level Cap & XP Cap: Wait, weren’t people complaining during Reach that we should not be getting to attached to a progression system?
>
> Sprinting: Maps need to be adjusted to scale with this new feature, but with melee lunge decreased I don’t see the sprint-double-hit being a problem anymore.
>
> Loadouts: This encourages variety within the weapon sandbox by introducing a set of weapons of similar power with slight differences in function. How is that bad? Also take note, that these can be augmented or entirely disabled in customs.
>
> Custom Games: Saved the best for last. People really get hyped up over this, and I can understand why. Cops & Robbers, Race, Invasion progression, One-Flag CTF, so many gametypes were lost. NOT. While there is a lot of functionality still lost in the transition from Halo Reach to Halo 4, the dramatists of this forum tend to overplay the limitations. We’re actually capable of a lot more than was first thought.

> > - ordinance
> > - no skill
> >
> > - level cap
> > - xp cap
> > - custom games
> > - sprinting
> > - loadouts
> >
[/quote]
Cracks knuckles Let’s do this.
> >
> > Ordinance: Actually, I’ll agree. Personal ordinance does invalidate power weapons and can radically throw off a map’s weapon balancing (random ordinance does the same thing). However, in Customs, random ordinance and personal ordinance can be disabled, and, using Forge, initial ordinance can be made to function on a timer like power weapons of olde.
> >
> > No Skill: This argument never makes sense. There are more types of skill in an FPS than being a good shot. Knowing when to go for / not to go for a weapon, cooperating with your team, use of cover, ambushing, and general cleverness in tactics can all give you an edge over an opponent that may be likely to shoot your face off in an even one-on-one.
> >
> > Level Cap & XP Cap: Wait, weren’t people complaining during Reach that we should not be getting to attached to a progression system?
> >
> > Sprinting: Maps need to be adjusted to scale with this new feature, but with melee lunge decreased I don’t see the sprint-double-hit being a problem anymore.
> >
> > Loadouts: This encourages variety within the weapon sandbox by introducing a set of weapons of similar power with slight differences in function. How is that bad? Also take note, that these can be augmented or entirely disabled in customs.
> >
> > Custom Games: Saved the best for last. People really get hyped up over this, and I can understand why. Cops & Robbers, Race, Invasion progression, One-Flag CTF, so many gametypes were lost. NOT. While there is a lot of functionality still lost in the transition from Halo Reach to Halo 4, the dramatists of this forum tend to overplay the limitations. We’re actually capable of a lot more than was first thought.
> >
[/quote]
I don’t think I was clear in my post but this is what I responded to someone else
> >
> >
> > Ordinance is horrible because it rewards the players doing well, and there is no point in map control
> >
> > The is no skill ranking (1-50) so there is no prestige, glory or any real reward in trying
> >
> > Level cap is stupid because if you didn’t spend extra money or you live in Europe you can’t level any more
> >
> > Xp cap is horrible because it is too low and the xp system is horrible anyway
> >
> > The essentially made custom games useless when they stripped all creativity possibility
> >
> > Sprinting is still op because you can still run around corners instead of having to stay and fight and try to out br
> >
> > Loadouts are just so unbalanced compared to halo 3’s balance

> I don’t think I was clear in my post but this is what I responded to someone else
>
>
> Ordinance is horrible because it rewards the players doing well, and there is no point in map control
>
> The is no skill ranking (1-50) so there is no prestige, glory or any real reward in trying
>
> Level cap is stupid because if you didn’t spend extra money or you live in Europe you can’t level any more
>
> Xp cap is horrible because it is too low and the xp system is horrible anyway
>
> The essentially made custom games useless when they stripped all creativity possibility
>
> Sprinting is still op because you can still run around corners instead of having to stay and fight and try to out br
>
> Loadouts are just so unbalanced compared to halo 3’s balance

Clarification is not synonymous with rebuttal. Reiterating your points with neither context nor evidence shall get you nowhere. Although these new arguments do procure some new responses to fit them.

On skill ranking: I agree with you, but isn’t being able to track your improvements as well as getting into a fair and balanced match with teams of similar skill more important than petty bragging rights? It seems like you’re supporting a good cause for a bad reason.

On Sprinting: Your example was rather poor, to stay and fight after an opponent has gotten the drop on you is a bad idea anyhow, unless you’ve got a power weapon or know that the bad guy isn’t a very good shot. Retreat, when victory is impossible, is the tactically advantageous option and shows skill in good judgement and assessment of the situation.

Overall, I think you still need to clarify some things yourself. Your arguments are incredibly vague, and the sprinting argument seems to pander more towards a faulty aspect of the social construct of masculinity than it does relate to a discussion of proper tactics in a video game.

> > I don’t think I was clear in my post but this is what I responded to someone else
> >
> >
> > Ordinance is horrible because it rewards the players doing well, and there is no point in map control
> >
> > The is no skill ranking (1-50) so there is no prestige, glory or any real reward in trying
> >
> > Level cap is stupid because if you didn’t spend extra money or you live in Europe you can’t level any more
> >
> > Xp cap is horrible because it is too low and the xp system is horrible anyway
> >
> > The essentially made custom games useless when they stripped all creativity possibility
> >
> > Sprinting is still op because you can still run around corners instead of having to stay and fight and try to out br
> >
> > Loadouts are just so unbalanced compared to halo 3’s balance
>
> Clarification is not synonymous with rebuttal. Reiterating your points with neither context nor evidence shall get you nowhere. Although these new arguments do procure some new responses to fit them.
>
> On skill ranking: I agree with you, but isn’t being able to track your improvements as well as getting into a fair and balanced match with teams of similar skill more important than petty bragging rights? It seems like you’re supporting a good cause for a bad reason.
>
> On Sprinting: Your example was rather poor, to stay and fight after an opponent has gotten the drop on you is a bad idea anyhow, unless you’ve got a power weapon or know that the bad guy isn’t a very good shot. Retreat, when victory is impossible, is the tactically advantageous option and shows skill in good judgement and assessment of the situation.
>
> Overall, I think you still need to clarify some things yourself. Your arguments are incredibly vague, and the sprinting argument seems to pander more towards a faulty aspect of the social construct of masculinity than it does relate to a discussion of proper tactics in a video game.

I just gave you cut and plain explanations for my statements…

On your response

No personal achievement isn’t enough. A 1-50 is a game within a game because you are not just fighting in game but you are competing with yourself, friends, teamates, and enemies. It adds a layer of fun and personal goal to the game.

It doesn’t matter if retreating is “tactile” ,its a game, Halo has long kill times so it is easy to run away from a fight. Running away doesn’t happen in any other fps because they have short kill times. Sprinting away is like last stand in CoD, Its cheap. When you get somebody to 1 shot and they run away its giving them an extra life when you should have been able to kill them.

P.S trying to use better vocab doesn’t make your argument better or make you sound smarter. You are on a video game forum not writing a research paper, there is no-one to impress.

You either like it or don’t. Simple.

A patch saved Halo 2, why not Halo 4?

Hell, the original Halo 2 is probably the WORST Halo multiplayer TO DATE! But the patch made it the best one yet.

I honestly wouldn’t bother posting on the forum because 343 are laughing at us for buying this game

Many ppl like this game the way it is, and thats good for 343. Because it was awake up call to many more that halo will never be the same again, and that will be alot of lost halo 5 sales!

Arguing about these details is like arguing about the door handles or the trim on a poorly made car (go back and read about the Pinto, Vega or Chevette). It’s a poorly designed game that offers everything to the little kids who like to “blow stuff up” and very little to those who like to work with a well-designed, well thought-out game…those who like to grow and get better because the game required skill, not because you had 40 hours/week to sit around, play bad, and get rewarded with specializations that give you an immediate edge over those who don’t have that kind of time. It’s a very, very poor design. It will not last. Count on it. 343i finished what Bungie started with Reach. The death of Halo as we knew it. Now all we have is this watered-down COD rip off “thing”.

> > Listing things you dislike without clarifying why they’re oh so terrible is just an awful argument.
>
> - Ordinance is horrible because it rewards the players doing well, and there is no point in map control
> - The is no skill ranking (1-50) so there is no prestige, glory or any real reward in trying
> - Level cap is stupid because if you didn’t spend extra money or you live in Europe you can’t level any more
> - Xp cap is horrible because it is too low and the xp system is horrible anyway
> - The essentially made custom games useless when they stripped all creativity possibility
> - Sprinting is still op because you can still run around corners instead of having to stay and fight and try to out br
> - Loadouts are just so unbalanced compared to halo 3’s balance

(1.ok
(2.i dont really see how a number is a reward but i guess it works for you o-o
(3.i dont see the point in caring about exp after lvl 30
(4.custom games are great
(5.ok
(6.halo 3’s balance was “br or die”