A Note on Multiplayer Map Design

Games Halo Infinite
1

Halo 5 has few to zero memorable maps. I believe a huge part of that is due to the incredibly repetitive factory metal look of almost every single level. I just wanted to make this post to implore 343i to look at Halos 1-3 and see that every multiplayer map environment has an interesting aesthetic, from the earth like maps to the strange alien structures and try to create maps that follow those concepts. So far they’ve only glimpsed us another map that looks like it’s in an Amazon warehouse for Infinite.

343i I absolutely beg you, as a loyal Halo fan of around 20 years, please, please bring character back to the Halo multiplayer maps.

(One caveat, I think the Breakout map aesthetic worked for that playlist specifically, but the standard multiplayer maps were all so repetitive in their aesthetics).

2

Plaza, Truth, Coli, Regret and the Rig are all pretty memorable.

Look at the floor or ceiling on truth, or the guardian like structures on Coli. The insects running around the floors on Regret

Why is there so much hate for Halo 5 when it had the best competitive multiplayer to date on console?

3

I’m a little uncertain on how I’d approach the “memorability” of maps.

I do remember most of the old trilogy multiplayer maps, but we had so much fun on them, no?
Newer Halos are obviously more recent, and should be easier to remember, but maybe some of us experienced them as bland, not bad or good enough to remember, but too bland to be put into memory.

> 2535435685526493;2:
> Plaza, Truth, Coli, Regret and the Rig are all pretty memorable.

Truth and Regret have Midship as a foundation, a popular Original Trilogy map.
Other than that, I can’t recall which ones out of the others are which, or how they look.

> 2535435685526493;2:
> Why is there so much hate for Halo 5 when it had the best competitive multiplayer to date on console?

Many would disagree it’s the best competitive multiplayer.
I dare say that quite a few feel the mechanics being a relevant culprit.

4

> 2533274795123910;3:
> I’m a little uncertain on how I’d approach the “memorability” of maps.
>
> I do remember most of the old trilogy multiplayer maps, but we had so much fun on them, no?
> Newer Halos are obviously more recent, and should be easier to remember, but maybe some of us experienced them as bland, not bad or good enough to remember, but too bland to be put into memory.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535435685526493;2:
> > Plaza, Truth, Coli, Regret and the Rig are all pretty memorable.
>
> Truth and Regret have Midship as a foundation, a popular Original Trilogy map.
> Other than that, I can’t recall which ones out of the others are which, or how they look.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535435685526493;2:
> > Why is there so much hate for Halo 5 when it had the best competitive multiplayer to date on console?
>
> Many would disagree it’s the best competitive multiplayer.
> I dare say that quite a few feel the mechanics being a relevant culprit.

Just because you cannot recall what the others are does not make them any less memorable. Conversely, I have only played Halo 5 (as others have) so the logic used in the nostalgia memories is lost upon that gen of players. Just because it’s classic or halo 5 =/= memorable.

I’m speaking about the comp settings, I could care less for anything outside of team arena/comp 2’s. I would definitely agree that the base settings are rather… anti-competitive in the ‘halo’ sense. When the best halo player, the pros, the sweats, the (good) youtubers, and Comp players point out that this is the best (highest skill gap, individual expression, team play, gun aim etc) competitive shooter in regards to Halo, it does not matter what ‘the many’ would say.

Back to the topic though, Truth and Regret are memorable for differing reasons even if they were based off of an older map. OP wants a call back to the old school, but people really need to leave classic in the past or just go play MCC.

It seems like a lot of this community looks down on the design of H5 maps because they simply were not good at the game. Stylistically, maps like Fathom (with massive ocean fish/whales swimming around), offer a lot more than what the old maps showcase.

5

> 2535435685526493;4:
> > 2533274795123910;3:
> > I’m a little uncertain on how I’d approach the “memorability” of maps.
> >
> > I do remember most of the old trilogy multiplayer maps, but we had so much fun on them, no?
> > Newer Halos are obviously more recent, and should be easier to remember, but maybe some of us experienced them as bland, not bad or good enough to remember, but too bland to be put into memory.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2535435685526493;2:
> > > Plaza, Truth, Coli, Regret and the Rig are all pretty memorable.
> >
> > Truth and Regret have Midship as a foundation, a popular Original Trilogy map.
> > Other than that, I can’t recall which ones out of the others are which, or how they look.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2535435685526493;2:
> > > Why is there so much hate for Halo 5 when it had the best competitive multiplayer to date on console?
> >
> > Many would disagree it’s the best competitive multiplayer.
> > I dare say that quite a few feel the mechanics being a relevant culprit.
>
> Just because you cannot recall what the others are does not make them any less memorable. Conversely, I have only played Halo 5 (as others have) so the logic used in the nostalgia memories is lost upon that gen of players. Just because it’s classic or halo 5 =/= memorable.
>
> I’m speaking about the comp settings, I could care less for anything outside of team arena/comp 2’s. I would definitely agree that the base settings are rather… anti-competitive in the ‘halo’ sense. When the best halo player, the pros, the sweats, the (good) youtubers, and Comp players point out that this is the best (highest skill gap, individual expression, team play, gun aim etc) competitive shooter in regards to Halo, it does not matter what ‘the many’ would say.
>
> Back to the topic though, Truth and Regret are memorable for differing reasons even if they were based off of an older map. OP wants a call back to the old school, but people really need to leave classic in the past or just go play MCC.
>
> It seems like a lot of this community looks down on the design of H5 maps because they simply were not good at the game. Stylistically, maps like Fathom (with massive ocean fish/whales swimming around), offer a lot more than what the old maps showcase.

Completely disagree, this isn’t about call back to old school. This is about better versus worse. Bugs on the ground or cool stuff in the background don’t particularly penetrate the atmosphere of a level of it is otherwise plain metal. It really feels like most levels are in some kind of warehouse. Halo 3 had Foundry which was basically that, one map of that aesthetic and it was great. When every map has a similar aesthetic it’s boring af, not to mention the maps that are near identical but minor lighting changes and what not. In halo 3 we had desert maps, valley/creek maps, space maps, weird green planet maps. Halo 5 we basically have the same metal copy and pasted around but with different visuals outside windows if you stop to look. The maps should be made of different materials, with different aesthetics. Halo 1-3 were full of mystery and wonder.

6

Actually just to add onto my last comment. If we look at maps based on setting halo 3 would look like this.

Snowbound - covenant structure in a snowy outcropping.
Epitaph - forerunner floating over some kind of desert planet
isolation - strange maybe forerunner based with some flood /strange planet fungus infested areas
high ground - man made base built into a hill
valhalla - forerunner structure built in a valley with a creek flowing through
black out - man made structure built hanging in snowy cliffs
the pit - man made training grounds
cold storage - covenant/forerunner structure built perhaps to study the flood with some flood infestation growing out
midship - a large room in the center of a covenant ship floating through space
gaurdian - perhaps forerunner, base built in trees on a strange foggy green planet

And several more I’m missing. Do that for Halo 5. It’s almost all just man made arbitrary buildings to run around. They have no implication of greater meanings for why they’re there. Occasionally it’s forerunner buildings that are just around for some reason, no real purpose, no real atmosphere. For real I’d love to see the halo 5 maps described similarly.

7

Yep, have to agree. Halo 5 maps play very well. Love them. But they have a very repetitive aesthetic. And ‘cool’ things going on are in the background which you just don’t get to appreciate in a battle.

A functional map is just a route you run around and shoot enemies on - and I appreciate that is both the hardest and the most important thing to get right.

But then you get the skybox and the buildings. The ‘biome’ if you like. These need to be as varied as possible; Human, Covenant, and other alien biomes.

Then they need to feel lived in. Alive if you like. Incidental movement going on. Objects that can be knocked over.

And some sort of centre-piece that sells the story of the map. If you can’t remember the name of the map you should still be able to go… “the one with the…” and have everyone know exactly what you are talking about. But it needs to be in the map itself (not just the background). You need to play on and/or around it. Halo 5 maps don’t have a lot of this.

8

Hot take, H5 has the best map balance in the series, even if people claim the maps aren’t “memorable.”

Coli, Plaza, The Rig, Eden, Truth. All of these are easily on par with any other Halo map from a competitive balance and fun gameplay viewpoint.

I also find it funny people rag on H5’s maps for not being memorable when Reach and a ton of H3 maps all look EXACTLY the same because the forge palettes used to be awful.

9

> 2585548714655118;7:
> Yep, have to agree. Halo 5 maps play very well. Love them. But they have a very repetitive aesthetic. And ‘cool’ things going on are in the background which you just don’t get to appreciate in a battle.
>
> A functional map is just a route you run around and shoot enemies on - and I appreciate that is both the hardest and the most important thing to get right.
>
> But then you get the skybox and the buildings. The ‘biome’ if you like. These need to be as varied as possible; Human, Covenant, and other alien biomes.
>
> Then they need to feel lived in. Alive if you like. Incidental movement going on. Objects that can be knocked over.
>
> And some sort of centre-piece that sells the story of the map. If you can’t remember the name of the map you should still be able to go… “the one with the…” and have everyone know exactly what you are talking about. But it needs to be in the map itself (not just the background). You need to play on and/or around it. Halo 5 maps don’t have a lot of this.

This. I think you put it super well. Personally I disagree that Halo 5 maps play the best but I think that’s far more subjective than the aesthetic issues. For me Guardian, Blackout, Ivory Tower, Sanctuary, Hang Em High etc are my favorite maps in terms of how they play. But I agree with how you described the aesthetic issues for sure.

10

> 2614366390849210;8:
> Hot take, H5 has the best map balance in the series, even if people claim the maps aren’t “memorable.”
>
> Coli, Plaza, The Rig, Eden, Truth. All of these are easily on par with any other Halo map from a competitive balance and fun gameplay viewpoint.
>
> I also find it funny people rag on H5’s maps for not being memorable when Reach and a ton of H3 maps all look EXACTLY the same because the forge palettes used to be awful.

The forge maps were just a ton of free extra maps we got, sure many looked similar but they’re also not the main curated maps that came with the game. Sure if we only look at forge maps they’re repetitive but you also play those far less frequently and they were basically free dlc added years and years after release.

11

> 2606994427173702;10:
> > 2614366390849210;8:
> > Hot take, H5 has the best map balance in the series, even if people claim the maps aren’t “memorable.”
> >
> > Coli, Plaza, The Rig, Eden, Truth. All of these are easily on par with any other Halo map from a competitive balance and fun gameplay viewpoint.
> >
> > I also find it funny people rag on H5’s maps for not being memorable when Reach and a ton of H3 maps all look EXACTLY the same because the forge palettes used to be awful.
>
> The forge maps were just a ton of free extra maps we got, sure many looked similar but they’re also not the main curated maps that came with the game. Sure if we only look at forge maps they’re repetitive but you also play those far less frequently and they were basically free dlc added years and years after release.

Sounds like H5 did that better then, considering it

  • Had more forge maps go into matchmaking than any other Halo. - Had a wider variety of forge map aesthetics than any other Halo. - Had a longer window of new forge maps going into match making than any other Halo. And even if you go back to non-forged maps, the original 5 I listed still fit the bill as memorable to anyone who’s spent any real time with H5.

As someone whose been playing the MCC and H5 almost exclusively since 2014, I think most people’s digs on the H5 are pretty obviously made out of ignorance of the game. Your map complaint falls right into that bucket in my opinion.

12

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535435685526493;2:
> Plaza, Truth, Coli, Regret and the Rig are all pretty memorable.
>
> Look at the floor or ceiling on truth, or the guardian like structures on Coli. The insects running around the floors on Regret
>
> Why is there so much hate for Halo 5 when it had the best competitive multiplayer to date on console?

I haven’t posted in a while but I just had to let you know you are out of your -Yoink!- mind lmao.

H5 is dogwater and the reason nobody plays it is because the multiplayer is trash. In fact, it was the first halo title actually supported by the devs in a competitive landscape and it STILL died one year after release. Halo 2 and 3 were the pinnacle of Halo multiplayer.

13

> 2614366390849210;11:
> > 2606994427173702;10:
> > > 2614366390849210;8:
> > > Hot take, H5 has the best map balance in the series, even if people claim the maps aren’t “memorable.”
> > >
> > > Coli, Plaza, The Rig, Eden, Truth. All of these are easily on par with any other Halo map from a competitive balance and fun gameplay viewpoint.
> > >
> > > I also find it funny people rag on H5’s maps for not being memorable when Reach and a ton of H3 maps all look EXACTLY the same because the forge palettes used to be awful.
> >
> > The forge maps were just a ton of free extra maps we got, sure many looked similar but they’re also not the main curated maps that came with the game. Sure if we only look at forge maps they’re repetitive but you also play those far less frequently and they were basically free dlc added years and years after release.
>
> Sounds like H5 did that better then, considering it
> - Had more forge maps go into matchmaking than any other Halo. - Had a wider variety of forge map aesthetics than any other Halo. - Had a longer window of new forge maps going into match making than any other Halo.And even if you go back to non-forged maps, the original 5 I listed still fit the bill as memorable to anyone who’s spent any real time with H5.
>
> As someone whose been playing the MCC and H5 almost exclusively since 2014, I think most people’s digs on the H5 are pretty obviously made out of ignorance of the game. Your map complaint falls right into that bucket in my opinion.

I think you misunderstood my point. I’m not saying forge maps are the best maps, I’m simply explaining why I don’t have a major complaint for the repetitiveness of the forge aesthetic when they’re not the true featured maps of the game. I also disagree. I’ve spent tons of time with H5, got to onyx rank or whatever is past that (what’s the one we’re they give you a numbered ranking? I got to that like 1700 or something (been a while now so I can’t remember)), but anyway I barely remember any of the H5 maps after a few years out. Halo 1-3 I can still think of maps that I loved. But again obviously subjective, I think the repetitive aesthetic is pretty clear and barely even debatable in H5.

14

> 2535435685526493;4:
> Just because you cannot recall what the others are does not make them any less memorable.

It doesn’t?

> 2535435685526493;4:
> Conversely, I have only played Halo 5 (as others have)

Making bold statements when not knowing what you’re talking about is allways a great idea…

> 2535435685526493;4:
> When the best halo player, the pros, the sweats, the (good) youtubers, and Comp players point out that this is the best (highest skill gap, individual expression, team play, gun aim etc) competitive shooter in regards to Halo, it does not matter what ‘the many’ would say.

Letting other people think for it also a great idea.
Also: sadly in terms of games, it kinda does matter what “the many” say consindering “the many” have “the many” money…

> 2535435685526493;4:
> It seems like a lot of this community looks down on the design of H5 maps because they simply were not good at the game.

What has one to do with the other?! And since you brought up skill…you don’t seem to be among the top crowd either (according to your stats here). Shouldn’t that mean that you should be looking down on the desing as well by your own logic?

> 2535435685526493;4:
> Stylistically, maps like Fathom (with massive ocean fish/whales swimming around), offer a lot more than what the old maps showcase.

How would you know if all you know is H5? Looking at screenshots isn’t the same as playing the maps.
Also, it’s not the background or the lore that is the problem with H5 maps. It’s been a while but if I recall correctly most of the maps were UNSC themed, which by itself isn’t even a problem but they all share mquite a lot of architecture/preset assets. That’s what makes them boring. If you’d hop on H3 and play all the UNSC maps, you wil notice that, eventhough they are all UNSC based, they offer different styles and architecture.

15

> 2533274801973487;14:
> > 2535435685526493;4:
> > If you’d hop on H3 and play all the UNSC maps, you wil notice that, eventhough they are all UNSC based, they offer different styles and architecture.

Such as? (If it truly is diverse, double digit examples please).

This question is coming from a true H3/H5 fan too :smiley:

16

> 2614366390849210;15:
> > 2533274801973487;14:
> > > 2535435685526493;4:
> > > If you’d hop on H3 and play all the UNSC maps, you wil notice that, eventhough they are all UNSC based, they offer different styles and architecture.
>
> Such as? (If it truly is diverse, double digit examples please).
>
> This question is coming from a true H3/H5 fan too :smiley:

Seriously? I already went through some.

Black out - UNSC base suspended from frozen cliffs on a dark snowy planet
The Pit - UNSC military training ground
High Ground - military base with bunker and operable gate built into a cliff on a hill leading down to the ocean
Standoff - opposing bases with many vehicles built on a desert plateau
Foundry - UNSC large storage warehouse
Last Resort - UNSC wind powered base built behind an older stone wall facing the ocean, larger scale with vehicles

these are just some UNSC based maps, but even the covenant and forerunner maps have just as much variation in setting and personality. Not to mention High Ground, Stand-off, and Last Resort all have interactive elements such as gates you can open plus the windmill on last resort is always tons of fun to mess around with or use strategically. The Pit also has the interactive ish targets that pop up. Super fun maps with great atmosphere. You missed out if you don’t know all of these.
They also vary super well in terms of play styles and tactics for each map. Many halo 5 maps feel so similar for gameplay AND aesthetics/atmosphere. Halo 5 just takes itself SO seriously as if somehow just cold steel is cooler… it’s not.

17

> 2614366390849210;15:
> > 2533274801973487;14:
> > If you’d hop on H3 and play all the UNSC maps, you wil notice that, eventhough they are all UNSC based, they offer different styles and architecture.
>
> Such as? (If it truly is diverse, double digit examples please).
>
> This question is coming from a true H3/H5 fan too :smiley:

How about this: can you find two UNSC themed Halo 3 maps and describe how they share the same aesthetic? It’s more economical for you to describe how just two maps look similar than for someone else to describe how ten maps look different.

18

> 2533274825830455;17:
> > 2614366390849210;15:
> > > 2533274801973487;14:
> > > If you’d hop on H3 and play all the UNSC maps, you wil notice that, eventhough they are all UNSC based, they offer different styles and architecture.
> >
> > Such as? (If it truly is diverse, double digit examples please).
> >
> > This question is coming from a true H3/H5 fan too :smiley:
>
> How about this: can you find two UNSC themed Halo 3 maps and describe how they share the same aesthetic? It’s more economical for you to describe how just two maps look similar than for someone else to describe how ten maps look different.

Great point, lol I already did the long version above. Miss the H2 and H3 glory days, hope they at least improve map design with infinite since we def aren’t getting the old style gameplay back.

19

Halo maps stopped being memorable around halo reach. But the funny thing is it wasn’t just halo maps. Look no other than to Call of Duty for its huuuge decline in memorable maps. No more nuketowns or Shipments or highrises. Just blandness. I can barely remember a cod map after black ops 2.

20

> 2535451336993939;19:
> Halo maps stopped being memorable around halo reach. But the funny thing is it wasn’t just halo maps. Look no other than to Call of Duty for its huuuge decline in memorable maps. No more nuketowns or Shipments or highrises. Just blandness. I can barely remember a cod map after black ops 2.

That’s a really interesting point. I haven’t really played much cod online since OG modern warfare so can’t really comment unfortunately, but I could imagine there being a downward trend in time spent making maps more atmospheric, dynamic, and varied just because of how modern culture is generally driving businesses toward rapid cash grabs rather than artistically and carefully crafted AAA games. That said I think Halo 5 suffers more than what I have seen in my brief stints with cod. Halo 5 feels like they made a metal texture and then just copy and pasted it on literally every surface on every UNSC map, and same for promethean maps but just a different metal. Super repetitive.