A New Weapon System.

Almost every ‘dedicated’ Halo fan on this site will agree that the mechanic of personal ordnance was not a good thing, due to the introduction of randomness.

(Fun anecdote: I was defending the central building on Complex with a shotgun to give our flag carrier time to get away, and popped out of cover to blast a blue in the face, only to get a face full of concussion rifle shots for my trouble. It was annoying.)

However, this has lead people to believe that static weapon spawns are a mystical Holy Grail of game mechanics, something that they are certainly not. Static spawn points at fixed intervals do create map control, but carry a ton of disadvantages. These include:

  • Encouraging hogging.
  • Encouraging camping.
  • Putting battles in exclusive locations, leaving the rest of the map abandoned.
  • Making skirmish structures repetitive. (Find guy with rockets. Die/escape. Flank while team distracts. Kill. Loot body. Repeat. Yawn.)
  • Being plain boring.
  • Looking rubbish. Face it, Ordnance drops were aesthetically brilliant, even if they functioned like Yoink.

Thus, we can see that neither system is perfect, and thus that a new one may be in order. I would propose that at set intervals in the match, a selection of semi-random weapons (No snipers on CQC maps, etc) would be announced, and have markers on specific locations where they would be dropped in a short time period. This would allow players to pull back and relocate to a new choke-point, keeping the prospect of map control, whilst also retaining the aesthetic of the drop system, as well as the variety it entailed, without making it non-competitive.

What do you guys think, then?

Not a fan of ordinance drops, terrible idea. Just bring back the way H2 and H3 did weapons.

> Not a fan of ordinance drops, terrible idea. Just bring back the way H2 and H3 did weapons.

exactly my thoughts.
static weapon spawns are way more tactical combat-encouraging than PODs will ever be.
heck, it happened more than once, that i sucked like hell, but got tons of assists
& still got my incineration cannon aka a few kills for free.

PODs have to go.

Ordnance Markers give away player positions when picking up items. The physical Ordnance Drop blocks player movement. Too many widgets on the HUD detracts from actual gameplay.

Halo needs four types of item respawn timers:

-Neutral Power Weapon
-Base Power Weapon/Equipment
-Power Up/Non Power Weapon
-Vehicle/Turret/Map Hazard

A neutral power weapon spawns every X seconds no matter what (also known as “Drop Spawning”).

A base power weapon spawns every X seconds but only if the previous weapon has despawned (players can “dirty” these items’ respawn timers).

A power up spawns every X seconds but the respawn timer only begins once the item has been picked up.

A vehicle spawns every X seconds but the respawn timer only begins once the item has been destroyed.

> Face it, Ordnance drops were aesthetically brilliant, even if they functioned like Yoink.

Ordnance drops looked like doo doo. No one wants to have an indicator pop up for every single grenade or concussion rifle that spawns in. Having weapons as a map pick up was so much simpler and less convoluted.

> I would propose that at set intervals in the match, a selection of semi-random weapons (No snipers on CQC maps, etc) would be announced, and have markers on specific locations where they would be dropped in a short time period. This would allow players to pull back and relocate to a new choke-point, keeping the prospect of map control, whilst also retaining the aesthetic of the drop system, as well as the variety it entailed, without making it non-competitive.

You described almost exactly how random ordnance worked when Halo 4 shipped. Even the current ordnance system is better than that.

> Encouraging hogging.

This is a player issue, not a game settings issue. This exists even in Halo 4 gametypes with Personal and Random Ordnance.

> Encouraging camping.

Only an idiot camps next to power weapons spawns because it’s a completely ineffective tactic.

> Putting battles in exclusive locations, leaving the rest of the map abandoned.

Stagnate map battles (like in Sword Base and Shutout) are just poor map design. It’s usually the result of a power position being too powerful, not having anything to do with a static spawn weapon.

> Looking rubbish. Face it, Ordnance drops were aesthetically brilliant, even if they functioned like Yoink.

So have static weapons spawn in Ordnance pods. Fix’d, and we didn’t even have to break the game.

> I would propose that at set intervals in the match, a selection of semi-random weapons (No snipers on CQC maps, etc) would be announced, and have markers on specific locations where they would be dropped in a short time period.

Isn’t that just Random Ordnance as it appeared in Halo 4?

Regardless, no matter how you implement a dice roll, it’s still random. What happens if one team’s acquired random weapon is more appropriate than another team’s acquired weapon?

Really, this doesn’t introduce more variety in the gameplay, but rather variety in the types of weapons used. But I have a suggestion that will allow for variety in the types of weapons used without introducing random variables: have set weapons spawn at set intervals, but each map has different power weapons. Some maps will have Energy Swords, and others will have Gravity Hammers. Some maps will have Rocket Launchers, and others will have Fuel Rod Guns. Some maps will have Grenade Launchers, and others will have Railguns.

Power weapons spawning in neutral positions works fine. Actually it kind of does the opposite of what you said, if rockets are in the center of the donut it encourages people to go to a part of the map that is otherwise unused.

As for non-power weapons on map, don’t even get me started.

The way that my proposed system differs to the current random ordnance system is that the locations are the same, being pre-made neutral (not in player bases) battlefield chokepoints, with the weapons announced a few minutes beforehand. This would mean that there would still be map control, with people fighting for the weapons to give their team an advantage, whilst retaining the ability to strategize, and adding variety to matches without randomness.

Also, hello again, Vektor0! (I’m Agent Hawaii from the Halo Nation forums)

Keep the classic static respawns for:

  • Weaponry
  • Vehicles
  • Power Ups
  • Equipment
  • Dynamic Map Elements

However the way it could be changed is…

The static spawn points could have ‘multiple’ drop points… which still spawn the same weapon every time… yet it could figure out to keep cycling each drop spot.

So say two snipers points yet Blue Team is camping the initial drop spot… so it goes to alternate which is relatively in a new location…

This new concept is to constantly change up the map control points and power weapon ‘hording’ as well as keep the flow of battle, across the map, fun and replayable.

I did not like the idea of static power weapons on the maps.

That was a completely horrible idea. Most of the people who liked it were more interested in map control (often spawn trapping) and camping the power weapons because they apparently couldnt get a kill with a regular weapon.

Dont get me wrong, i have nothing against people using power weapons. What i DO have against it is the fact that most people just CAMP those spots without wanting to leave and have the audacity, after they win, to brag about how good they did in that match. No -Yoink- junior, you held a power weapon the whole time because you are obviously not good enough to get a kill with the weapon you spawn with.

I have gotten so much hate mail in the past from people like this who i not only killed them constantly off those areas but also, in Reach, used Armor Lock against them. I did that just to piss them off even more. Then they had the gall to complain about how bad i was that i was using AL. Well, if you werent so dead set on using power weapons the whole time, i wouldnt have used AL.

I like the ordinance. Yea they are random but that is what makes it balanced. You cant expect to have a Spartan Laser pop up every single time do you? The ordinance is random so it still gives both teams a fighting chance at winning instead of making it so unbelievably one-sided.

As for a future weapon system, i would like to use a old saying “if it aint broke, dont fix it.” Its fine the way it is.

Static weapon spawns are one of the ABSOLUTE core elements to strategy and teamwork and I would be extremely disappointed in 343i if they did not implement them.

To those saying that they promote camping and spawn trapping, if both teams know where it spawns, and they fight over it, and he wins the fight, should he not get his 2/4 rockets? Should the enemy team not be rewarded for executing a smarter and/or more skillful strategy than you? If you say no, then you are the people that I dont want to be playing Halo with in the next year. There are always Social playlists for you…

> Static weapon spawns are one of the ABSOLUTE core elements to strategy and teamwork and I would be extremely disappointed in 343i if they did not implement them.
>
> To those saying that they promote camping and spawn trapping, if both teams know where it spawns, and they fight over it, and he wins the fight, should he not get his 2/4 rockets? Should the enemy team not be rewarded for executing a smarter and/or more skillful strategy than you? If you say no, then you are the people that I dont want to be playing Halo with in the next year. There are always Social playlists for you…

That is the EXACT mentality that i dont like about the weapon spawns.

Like i said before, i dont object to people using them, but if you are going to be that stupid and think people are not going to camp those spots and then spawn trap the whole time, then you are just proving my point.

The whole idea of this is that it makes the match completely one sided the entire match. And you wonder why people keep leaving matches when you do this -Yoink-.

> Static weapon spawns are one of the ABSOLUTE core elements to strategy and teamwork and I would be extremely disappointed in 343i if they did not implement them.
>
> To those saying that they promote camping and spawn trapping, if both teams know where it spawns, and they fight over it, and he wins the fight, should he not get his 2/4 rockets? Should the enemy team not be rewarded for executing a smarter and/or more skillful strategy than you? If you say no, then you are the people that I dont want to be playing Halo with in the next year. There are always Social playlists for you…

The way you are going about this is wrong, and people that don’t want static weapon spawns should not be shoved into a single side of matchmaking simply because “you don’t want them there”. People have problems with static spawns because of how some people use them.

Example 1- one person runs to a shotgun spawn and grabs power weapon. He then runs to the rocket launcher spawn which is a smallish room with 1-2 entrances and he camps there for 3 minutes waiting for the weapon to spawn again as he knows another player currently has it. He kills any enemy player that comes into this room but refuses to assist his teammates in combat. After the weapon spawns He takes the launcher and heads back to the shotgun spawn and waits out there doing the same thing as before.

Example 2- What you are suggesting is that Team A and Team B make it to the power weapon all at the same time, but some other’s counter argument is that there are players and teams that will camp the main power weapon spawn the whole game, and most likely with that power weapon, but also another. In other words you would have 4 people all in the same area with 1-3 of them holding power weapons and camping the rocket launcher or fuel rod gun spawn (or the main power weapon of the map).

Players that use these tactics are the reason why people can be against the idea of static weapon spawns. In a perfect competitive setting of ACTUAL competitive players it promotes teamwork and strategy, but in day to day matchmaking it promotes the spawn camping and spawn trapping that is being mentioned here. A system where the same weapons will always spawn on the same map but randomly change places with other power weapons will not remove the skill or teamwork as you still have to fight for a power weapon, but it will also discourage the people that use these aggravating “tactics”

Static spawns are a must in any Halo game. I understand 343 was trying to give less skilled players a fighting chance with ordinance drops, but at the same time it affected core gameplay for the worse. It is better to encourage less skilled players to learn about map movement and control instead of implementing game-harming features. Halo has always been about striving to be a better player. If a team keeps letting their opposition control the power weapons, then that is their fault and they’ll most likely lose because of it.

Honestly, if they were to separate Ranked and Social playlists, I wouldn’t mind if ordinance drops were in just social playlists. You’ll have the best of both worlds. But that usually doesn’t happen.

> Static weapon spawns are one of the ABSOLUTE core elements to strategy and teamwork and I would be extremely disappointed in 343i if they did not implement them.
>
> To those saying that they promote camping and spawn trapping, if both teams know where it spawns, and they fight over it, and he wins the fight, should he not get his 2/4 rockets? Should the enemy team not be rewarded for executing a smarter and/or more skillful strategy than you? If you say no, then you are the people that I dont want to be playing Halo with in the next year. There are always Social playlists for you…

That’s only part of the issue. Executing a strategy as such is a perfectly justifiable way of getting a power weapon, but camping for it or being the only one to have two of them for the entire match is not. Plus, there’s the issue of it becoming repetitive. Every match starts the same, as people rush for the sword, or the splaser, or whatever. It’s the same, over and over.

I don’t think for a second that this system will be implemented. I’m just trying to promote thought over the typical: “343, just do what Bungie did forever” opinion. Bungie was not God. I want an ever so slight tweak to the CE/2/3 system, probably not as extensive as this, just to prevent the problems listed above. This could be having cycling spawns, like Stubborn Barren mentioned, or something else entirely. As a bonus, I think that the weapons, when they spawn, should appear in an ordnance pod, (without a marker). Having weapons just appear is kind of bland.

I have no idea what games people have been playing. I don’t remember anyone having problems with “camping” in Halo, I thought this was a COD thing.
The Pit, Halo 3: Teams spawn, one or two ppl rush rockets, you have a sniper, and then a support guy that goes bridge. One of the teams will get rockets because they played it better, and then they will get perhaps 2-4 kills off of them. This is fine.
The sniper is a skillful position and if he is good with it, the other team has to play it right to take him out. If one team is able to secure both snipers, then the other team is SOL for a little bit and that is on them.
Rockets are about to spawn in 10 seconds, one team has 2 ppl ready in green box while the other team only has one player in position. He gets killed because the other team was SMARTER, and then they get rockets for a bit. Sucks to suck.
And about spawn camping give me a break, that rarely happens for more than a few kills if that, and it is due to the other team being significantly better at the game than you.

> I have no idea what games people have been playing. I don’t remember anyone having problems with “camping” in Halo, I thought this was a COD thing.
> The Pit, Halo 3: Teams spawn, one or two ppl rush rockets, you have a sniper, and then a support guy that goes bridge. One of the teams will get rockets because they played it better, and then they will get perhaps 2-4 kills off of them. This is fine.
> The sniper is a skillful position and if he is good with it, the other team has to play it right to take him out. If one team is able to secure both snipers, then the other team is SOL for a little bit and that is on them.
> Rockets are about to spawn in 10 seconds, one team has 2 ppl ready in green box while the other team only has one player in position. He gets killed because the other team was SMARTER, and then they get rockets for a bit. Sucks to suck.

This is exactly the problem. This is the scenario that occurs every time, unless someone sucks, in which case it gets worse. Camping DOES exist, as Deathstrokex12 said, and if the holding of power weapons becomes unbalanced, the game turns from a fight into a slaughter. Then there are the other problems mentioned. It isn’t perfect.

> And about spawn camping give me a break, that rarely happens for more than a few kills if that, and it is due to the other team being significantly better at the game than you.

And now, you’re simply being obnoxious and imperious. Well done.

> > I have no idea what games people have been playing. I don’t remember anyone having problems with “camping” in Halo, I thought this was a COD thing.
> > The Pit, Halo 3: Teams spawn, one or two ppl rush rockets, you have a sniper, and then a support guy that goes bridge. One of the teams will get rockets because they played it better, and then they will get perhaps 2-4 kills off of them. This is fine.
> > The sniper is a skillful position and if he is good with it, the other team has to play it right to take him out. If one team is able to secure both snipers, then the other team is SOL for a little bit and that is on them.
> > Rockets are about to spawn in 10 seconds, one team has 2 ppl ready in green box while the other team only has one player in position. He gets killed because the other team was SMARTER, and then they get rockets for a bit. Sucks to suck.
>
> This is exactly the problem. This is the scenario that occurs every time, unless someone sucks, in which case it gets worse. Camping DOES exist, as Deathstrokex12 said, and if the holding of power weapons becomes unbalanced, the game turns from a fight into a slaughter. Then there are the other problems mentioned. It isn’t perfect.
>
>
> > And about spawn camping give me a break, that rarely happens for more than a few kills if that, and it is due to the other team being significantly better at the game than you.
>
> And now, you’re simply being obnoxious and imperious. Well done.

I just want to understand correctly. What exactly is a better implementation than one team fighting for something that will give them an advantage, then they use that advantage to gain a lead? It creates a push-pull, a reward-punishment, a tension for every action. This is a feeling that I, and I know many people, miss.
As far as huge defeats, slaughters, this is something I think is being blown out of proportion, as maybe 1 in every 9 or 10 games was a steaktackular (win by 20 or more kills).

> > > I have no idea what games people have been playing. I don’t remember anyone having problems with “camping” in Halo, I thought this was a COD thing.
> > > The Pit, Halo 3: Teams spawn, one or two ppl rush rockets, you have a sniper, and then a support guy that goes bridge. One of the teams will get rockets because they played it better, and then they will get perhaps 2-4 kills off of them. This is fine.
> > > The sniper is a skillful position and if he is good with it, the other team has to play it right to take him out. If one team is able to secure both snipers, then the other team is SOL for a little bit and that is on them.
> > > Rockets are about to spawn in 10 seconds, one team has 2 ppl ready in green box while the other team only has one player in position. He gets killed because the other team was SMARTER, and then they get rockets for a bit. Sucks to suck.
> >
> > This is exactly the problem. This is the scenario that occurs every time, unless someone sucks, in which case it gets worse. Camping DOES exist, as Deathstrokex12 said, and if the holding of power weapons becomes unbalanced, the game turns from a fight into a slaughter. Then there are the other problems mentioned. It isn’t perfect.
> >
> >
> > > And about spawn camping give me a break, that rarely happens for more than a few kills if that, and it is due to the other team being significantly better at the game than you.
> >
> > And now, you’re simply being obnoxious and imperious. Well done.
>
> I just want to understand correctly. What exactly is a better implementation than one team fighting for something that will give them an advantage, then they use that advantage to gain a lead? It creates a push-pull, a reward-punishment, a tension for every action. This is a feeling that I, and I know many people, miss.
> As far as huge defeats, slaughters, this is something I think is being blown out of proportion, as maybe 1 in every 9 or 10 games was a steaktackular (win by 20 or more kills).

First off, if you dont see a problem with this and you never really saw a problem, then YOU are most likely the one who does this -Yoink-.

Second, the main problem is that it makes the whole match completely one-sided. You are stupid to think camping doesnt happen in Halo. I see it happen all the time. And you are even more stupid to think it wont happen with power weapons because i have seen it all the time in Reach.

What i find hysterical is how you think its a “reward” for players being good. If players need a power weapon in order to win a match, then they are not good.

Reward-punishment? What the hell are you talking about? What punishment? Just because one team couldnt get at least 1 power weapon, they are being punished because of it? In what world does that make any kind of sense?

> > > > I have no idea what games people have been playing. I don’t remember anyone having problems with “camping” in Halo, I thought this was a COD thing.
> > > > The Pit, Halo 3: Teams spawn, one or two ppl rush rockets, you have a sniper, and then a support guy that goes bridge. One of the teams will get rockets because they played it better, and then they will get perhaps 2-4 kills off of them. This is fine.
> > > > The sniper is a skillful position and if he is good with it, the other team has to play it right to take him out. If one team is able to secure both snipers, then the other team is SOL for a little bit and that is on them.
> > > > Rockets are about to spawn in 10 seconds, one team has 2 ppl ready in green box while the other team only has one player in position. He gets killed because the other team was SMARTER, and then they get rockets for a bit. Sucks to suck.
> > >
> > > This is exactly the problem. This is the scenario that occurs every time, unless someone sucks, in which case it gets worse. Camping DOES exist, as Deathstrokex12 said, and if the holding of power weapons becomes unbalanced, the game turns from a fight into a slaughter. Then there are the other problems mentioned. It isn’t perfect.
> > >
> > >
> > > > And about spawn camping give me a break, that rarely happens for more than a few kills if that, and it is due to the other team being significantly better at the game than you.
> > >
> > > And now, you’re simply being obnoxious and imperious. Well done.
> >
> > I just want to understand correctly. What exactly is a better implementation than one team fighting for something that will give them an advantage, then they use that advantage to gain a lead? It creates a push-pull, a reward-punishment, a tension for every action. This is a feeling that I, and I know many people, miss.
> > As far as huge defeats, slaughters, this is something I think is being blown out of proportion, as maybe 1 in every 9 or 10 games was a steaktackular (win by 20 or more kills).
>
> First off, if you dont see a problem with this and you never really saw a problem, then YOU are most likely the one who does this Yoink!.
>
> Second, the main problem is that it makes the whole match completely one-sided. You are stupid to think camping doesnt happen in Halo. I see it happen all the time. And you are even more stupid to think it wont happen with power weapons because i have seen it all the time in Reach.
>
> What i find hysterical is how you think its a “reward” for players being good. If players need a power weapon in order to win a match, then they are not good.
>
> Reward-punishment? What the hell are you talking about? What punishment? Just because one team couldnt get at least 1 power weapon, they are being punished because of it? In what world does that make any kind of sense?

Define Camping for me. Camping to me is something people made up for kids in COD that sit in a room and look at a door. When I played Halo 3, the most camping thing I can think of to match what you are saying is someone earning a power weapon, then they sit in an undisclosed location and wait for someone to enter that location so they can kill them. (Didnt happen much, teams were usually communicating back then) And really all this got them was perhaps 3 or 4 kills max, with pretty much only the rockets and… im trying to think. Shotgun?

I’m not trying to argue or insult or anything, but do you really believe that having teams fight over objectives is not more dynamic, more interesting, and creates more tension than just “oh we all have BRs don’t worry about going around that corner you should be cool it doesnt matter”.

EDIT: To give an example. I remember a match in Halo 3, I was a lvl 44 in TS and was trying sooo hard to get that 45. The points were 48 to 49 and the other team was winning. They had control of rockets and that is what got them their last kill so we knew they had 3 left. Me and my team were talking, and moving ever so careful for about 5 minutes as nothing was happening (I believe it was on the map Standoff) I knew camo and the sniper were about to come up so we got a plan to distract with some grenades and I ran over to the camo and then picked up the sniper. After some intense moments, and my team was able to take down 1 person that rushed us, I was able to get a kill on the enemy sniper, as my team was about to die to a rocket, and it won us the game.

Moments like these NEVER happened in H4, or even Halo: Reach.