> > > > > <mark>I didn’t watch the 2nd video but the first was a failure for a number of reasons. Every single community within Halo is a niche when compared to the mass of general Halo players once you isolate them but not the others, yet you say the competitive community’s voice is somehow less important because of this…?</mark>
> > > > >
> > > > > Do that to the Forge community then, now they’re smaller than everyone else. Now does that give 343 license to ignore that crowd and dumb down Forge or rehash Reach’s mode, or anything else that ultimately harms the community? After all, Halo: CE wasn’t originally designed for Forge, right?
> > > > >
> > > > > The same logic could be applied to every other niche and guess what? It’s wrong every time. It doesn’t matter what Bungie intended Halo to be originally, it is what it is. Consider how Bungie responded to that community - with Halo 2 they added Trueskill and made balance changes to make the game more fair if something was amiss. Halo has undeniably become a competitive game and there are lots of competitive players out there, either in MLG or Team Slayer (I don’t where the logic came from that Arena and MLG are the only competitive playlists as if Rumble Pit or Slayer can’t be played competitively, and given all those playlists are under the COMPETITIVE hopper) and they have a right as customers to be serviced, otherwise why should they buy the game?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also the idea that competitive player complaining about the game is some how ruining the forums or hurting casual players’ feelings is absurd. We all want something different out of Halo 4, and nobody deserves to be ignored or misinterpreted as “haters” or something.
> > > >
> > > > The competitive niche is much smaller than any other niche, like it or not.
> > > >
> > > > And he is not suggesting that the competitive community has a less valid opinion than anyone else. But competitives are constantly giving everyone the sense that their opinion is more important than all others because they somehow know better than anyone else, and that constant complaining from this part of the community is unfair to everyone else who doesn’t want to have to hear it. He’s saying that your opinion is equal to everyone else’s, nothing more. You’re reading too far into it.
> > >
> > > Smaller than the dedicated Forgers? Smaller than the <mark>lore nuts</mark> or the Grifball fanatics? I’m sorry, but where do you come up with your statistics? How could you possibly know how many competitive players there are?
> > >
> > > Also the concept of self-entitlement is its own separate issue, most people who want a balanced game aren’t flaunting their superiority, from what I’ve seen. I can vouch for myself on that front. <mark>Go back and watch the commentated footage with the MLG guys playing Halo 4 with 343; Those are the ultimate competitve players, yet they weren’t -Yoinking!- up a storm and flaunting their superiority as the author implies they would have</mark>. If the author’s problem is with self-entiltememt and egocentricism, maybe 1: he shouldn’t respond to that with more egocentrism, as another user pointed out and 2: he should not have addressed it to the competitive community at large, that’s a pretty unfair generalization.
> >
> > That is one of the larger player groups, I know that for a fact. See here, here, and here.
>
> Great, I never implied it wasn’t big. In fact I would assume it isn’t considering the books sell millions of copies. Is this the part where I’m supposed to provide links to the Optimatch forums or MLGs website or something?
No, that was a side note.
But anyway, no one person is going to have a perfect argument for this problem, because everyone is going to be biased towards their own opinions simply because it is human nature. We can either accept that fact and stop fighting or keep on nitpicking details and keep arguing until the end of time.
Edit: in the second video he states that he wasn’t talking about those competitive players, as he was only talking about a very, very small piece of the competitive community.
> Ok a small History lesson
>
>
> Halo 1
>
> Balanced core game play
> Fun for competitive people
> Fun for casual people
>
> Halo 2
>
> Balanced core game play
> Fun for competitive people
> Fun for casual people
>
> Halo 3
>
>
> Balanced core game play
> Fun for competitive people
> Fun for casual people
>
> Halo Reach
>
>
> game play was NOT BALANCED AT ITS CORE
> Not Fun for competitive people / a huge amount of things had to be change to MAKE IT COMPETITIVE
> Fun for casual people
>
> ________________
>
> The history of ALL HALO GAMES IS if a game is competitive and balanced at its core game play EVERYONE CAN LIKE IT if the game is not competitive then only causal players will like its or stay ( looks at Reach )
>
>
> So if you HATED HALOS 1 2 & 3 then DISAGREE WITH ME
>
> But if you had fun wether you were COMPETITIVE or CAUSAL in HALO’S 1 2 & 3 then you are on my side
>
>
> Have a beautiful day .
Careful with the generalizations. As if all “competitive” players hate Reach. I consider myself competitive, yet I enjoy Reach. I also enjoyed those of the original trilogy as well.
People say Halo 4 will not be competitive. From what I understand, competitive is playing to win. Competitive features are things that promote efforts to win.
Then they say Reach was casual, and had too many casual features. They say a casual game can’t be played competitively. You can still play to win in Reach, am I wrong? People say casual games like Reach interfere with the efforts to win. People begin relying on their abilities and themselves, not really trying to win, while just racking up credits. This may be true, but it doesn’t work for everyone.
I play Reach to win. I use the Armor Abilities competitively to help me win. I try to use my teamates. Armor Abilities, customization, whatever, will not stop my attempts to win. If my team is being uncooperative, being lone wolves, I can still use my abilities and skill to give me any advantage so I can win. The new ranking system may help get rid of some of the “lone wolves” problems. Halo 4 can’t keep me from winning.
If my definition of competitive is completely off, please enlighten me to your definition.
Great videos. Its about time these boorish tryhards got properly told. The competitives have lost most of their legitimacy over the last few years due to their incessant whining about every little thing. They will have to work hard to get that back.
The guy is right too. Despite what they may think, the competitive community is a fly on an elephants -Yoink- compared to the rest of halodom. Given that fact, they probably get proportionately too much representation as it is, but the devs still throw them a bone because they are inclusive which is great.
Bottom line, video is correct, competitives need to get their heads out of their -Yoinks!- and realise they are part of a much wider fanbase than themselves. They do this, or will they face continuing isolation and stigma.
Ready up live looks cool, a self described “casual community”, i will check it out.a
> > Ok a small History lesson
> >
> >
> > Halo 1
> >
> > Balanced core game play
> > Fun for competitive people
> > Fun for casual people
> >
> > Halo 2
> >
> > Balanced core game play
> > Fun for competitive people
> > Fun for casual people
> >
> > Halo 3
> >
> >
> > Balanced core game play
> > Fun for competitive people
> > Fun for casual people
> >
> > Halo Reach
> >
> >
> > game play was NOT BALANCED AT ITS CORE
> > Not Fun for competitive people / a huge amount of things had to be change to MAKE IT COMPETITIVE
> > Fun for casual people
> >
> > ________________
> >
> > The history of ALL HALO GAMES IS if a game is competitive and balanced at its core game play EVERYONE CAN LIKE IT if the game is not competitive then only causal players will like its or stay ( looks at Reach )
> >
> >
> > So if you HATED HALOS 1 2 & 3 then DISAGREE WITH ME
> >
> > But if you had fun wether you were COMPETITIVE or CAUSAL in HALO’S 1 2 & 3 then you are on my side
> >
> >
> > Have a beautiful day .
>
> Careful with the generalizations. As if all “competitive” players hate Reach. I consider myself competitive, yet I enjoy Reach. I also enjoyed those of the original trilogy as well.
>
> People say Halo 4 will not be competitive. From what I understand, competitive is playing to win. Competitive features are things that promote efforts to win.
> Then they say Reach was casual, and had too many casual features. They say a casual game can’t be played competitively. You can still play to win in Reach, am I wrong? People say casual games like Reach interfere with the efforts to win. People begin relying on their abilities and themselves, not really trying to win, while just racking up credits. This may be true, but it doesn’t work for everyone.
> I play Reach to win. I use the Armor Abilities competitively to help me win. I try to use my teamates. Armor Abilities, customization, whatever, will not stop my attempts to win. If my team is being uncooperative, being lone wolves, I can still use my abilities and skill to give me any advantage so I can win. The new ranking system may help get rid of some of the “lone wolves” problems. Halo 4 can’t keep me from winning.
>
> If my definition of competitive is completely off, please enlighten me to your definition.
I would say playing to win is competitive anything can be competitive kind of like halo 1
But im thinking the OP is talking about a little more then just people that play to win more along the lines of MLG or Ranked players not people that play action sack to win .
An seeing as the op is on your side your point is flawed because he would be making this post ABOUT you as well AS YOUR a competitive games – but hes not talking about you
Wrong or right
Also my post was saying that both social and Ranked playlist had all most all the same settings in halos 2&3
I’m pretty competitive, but I agree that Halo should not be based around competitive play. Competitive players are what make a game competitive, not the core gameplay.
I stopped watching the video at around 1:40. His very thesis is a sweeping generalization of all competitive players. Please stop doing this in your arguments. I see it all the time.
Competitive players want one thing above all else: Balance. That comes first and foremost. You cannot blame the competitive community for their skepticism about Halo 4 and armor abilities given their game-breaking nature in Reach.
From a standpoint of balance, NOTHING even comes close to Promethean Vision in terms of power and how useful it is. At least in the E3 build we saw. That’s just one example.
But to revert to my opening statement: If you do not understand your opponent’s viewpoint please do not even bother attempting refuting it. Many people on this forum have no idea how competitive players are (they stereotype them and call it a day) and have never played a single competitive game in their lives (at least in Halo).
I am not suggesting this is a bad thing. In fact, it’s one thing I love about the Halo community. We have different opinions and it makes our game that much more dynamic. But it is frustrating to see people stereotyping as a means to make their point. The competitive community is guilty of this as well as the casual community.
But in all fairness, it is not difficult to understand what casual gamers want but you must think a bit more and learn more if you are to fully understand competitive play.
> Great videos. Its about time these boorish tryhards got properly told. The competitives have lost most of their legitimacy over the last few years due to their incessant whining about every little thing. They will have to work hard to get that back.
>
> The guy is right too. Despite what they may think, the competitive community is a fly on an elephants -Yoink!- compared to the rest of halodom. Given that fact, they probably get proportionately too much representation as it is, but the devs still throw them a bone because they are inclusive which is great.
>
> Bottom line, video is correct, competitives need to get their heads out of their -Yoinks!- and realise they are part of a much wider fanbase than themselves. They do this, or will they face continuing isolation and stigma.
>
> Ready up live looks cool, a self described “casual community”, i will check it out.a
Lol, who are you addressing? The competitive community hasnt done -Yoink- to you or the fan-base all we have done is support our game and give our opinions. That video simply points out the obvious and is laced with passive aggressive comments. The ideals that competitive players push for(Balance,skill,longevity) run parallel with what most people want and what the devs want as well. Sure you might not be that dedicated to the game and want a more casual experience, but what most people dont realize is both is possible and has been done excellently before(See Halo trilogy). Stop trying to start -Yoink-, when nobody is firing shots from the competitive community. We all want Halo 4 to be successful and uniting and Halo has always offered plenty ways to play for all types of players and should continue doing so.
He brings up fair points. But really, if Halo 4 was balanced, like its predecessors (excluding Reach) the casual and competitive community will be whole again, like in H1-3. Because as FUNZBOB says, competitive gamers do not enjoy playing a casual game, whereas casual gamers would still play a competitive game, albeit some might be butthurt at not getting to play around with more fun settings. If a game like Reach forces competitive gamers into 2 competitive playlists; both are quite low in population, arena has bad settings and a bad ranking system, mlg has good settings and no ranking system, it will separate the communities and naturally piss off the competitive players.
To adress his points directly:
-I agree. There are absolute -Yoink- in the competitive community. Whilst they do not represent the whole of the competitive community, they do make casual players think they represent the whole of the competitive community.
-I disagree. If you have a higher k/d and better skills/knowledge/experience than someone else, you clearly understand the game mechanics better than them (most of the time). Of course, you don’t need good stats and have to have played halo for 11 years, but it will add to your credibility.
-He made a fool of himself when he asked ‘what’s frankie’s k/d?’ I mean anyone can turn that argument against him so easily.
-I agree to an extent. Competitive players spout out their opinions the loudest because they are the guys least heard. It also demonstrates that these players do infact care more than casual players by ‘complaining’. Also, casual players vastly outnumber competitive players.
> There needs to be a good balance between the two plays. I really want a good competitive mode for Halo 4 as well as a casual side to it. I like the idea of having a ranked and social playlist like Halo 3. I would like a nice ranking system for competitive play as well as playlists and game types that are great for casual.
>
>
>
> <mark>Its all about balance between the two styles of gameplay.</mark>
I think 343 is doing this well already. Halo 4 really seems to have the best of both in its gameplay. I’m indifferent to things like custom classes and AA’s (thank GOD they’re actually being balanced against each other), but from what I’ve heard and seen, overall combat looks more skilled, more fluid. Strafe speed has been increased, as well as default movement, auto aim and bullet magnetism have been drastically reduced, and there seem to be some decent, skilled loadout weapons as well as power weapons.
That’s what makes me so excited for Halo 4: gameplay mechanics that most of Halo’s competitive community NEVER would have jumped on (changing the game drastically, likely for the better), and the return of more skilled gunplay. It’s a nice balance, imo.
First off: What exactly defines a competitive player? If its someone who plays to win, then you’d be surprised how many lesser skilled players (which would often be considered as casual players) are technically competitve players.
Furthermore, I dont see how the competitive community voicing its opinion will exactly ruin Halo 4 for casual gamers. Competitive players are mostly pushing for a balanced game and a ranking system that actaully works. I dont think casual players will exactly enjoy the game if one gun/armor ability dominates the rest, and if casual players were playing placed against the more competitive players.