A message to the competitives on this forum

Edited by Moderator - Please do not call out individuals including forum members, moderators, administrators, and non-forum members.

*Original post, click at your own discretion.

Please watch this.

And then this.

Thank you!

([REDACTED] and [REDACTED], this is primarily addressed to you.)

I love you.

As long as I can easily kill scrubs and noobs because I’m better than them and there are no crutches in the game I’ll be fine. If the Skill gap is BIG I’m fine.

> I love you.

I saw him first! lol
I totally agreed with that video. I’m a casual player myself.

There needs to be a good balance between the two plays. I really want a good competitive mode for Halo 4 as well as a casual side to it. I like the idea of having a ranked and social playlist like Halo 3. I would like a nice ranking system for competitive play as well as playlists and game types that are great for casual.

Its all about balance between the two styles of gameplay.

I totally agree with the video. Yessiree.

Old news.

“CE is not competitive”.

LOL. Right…

> There needs to be a good balance between the two plays. I really want a good competitive mode for Halo 4 as well as a casual side to it. I like the idea of having a ranked and social playlist like Halo 3. I would like a nice ranking system for competitive play as well as playlists and game types that are great for casual.
>
>
>
> Its all about balance between the two styles of gameplay.

Except competitive players will always wreck casual players. It dosen’t matter if there’s a competitive mode or casual mode. If the overall game is too casual all the competitive players will leave or since the skill between a noob and pro is small since the game is so easy there will be lots of teams or parties rampaging through match making killing teams of randoms that don’t have mics or skill.

>

Competitive players want the best for halo in a casual/competitive matter like halo 2/3 and halo reach was a joke of a halo game so you cant talk about the population on that game cause it all was casual.

And also casual players usually turn into competitive players cause they love the game that much and want to strive to be a better player

> Those videos are filled with so much ignorance. 343 shouldn’t be catering to anyone, but the logic of that video and 90% of the people that mindlessly bash competitive players here is, “competitive players whine about how the game needs to be catered to them, that’s why I should get everything that I want instead of them.”
>
> Fighting ignorance and egocentrism with more ignorance and egocentrism puts you on the same level as the people that you bash… Maybe, just maybe 343i should try to compromise, rather than cater to anyone. The last time that the developer didn’t let the whining of anyone get in the way (too much), and just took notes from sensible people with sensible logic (Halo 2-Halo 3), we ended up with a game that got little complaints (on the core mechanics) from just about everyone.

Watch the follow up video. He’s suggesting that the opinions of casuals and those of competitives carry equal weight.

> >
>
> Competitive players want the best for halo in a casual/competitive matter like halo 2/3 and halo reach was a joke of a halo game so you cant talk about the population on that game cause it all was casual.
>
> <mark>And also casual players usually turn into competitive players cause they love the game that much and want to strive to be a better player</mark>

…or they just like the story of the Halo Universe and play multiplayer just to get more of the epic action that they experience in campaign.

> > There needs to be a good balance between the two plays. I really want a good competitive mode for Halo 4 as well as a casual side to it. I like the idea of having a ranked and social playlist like Halo 3. I would like a nice ranking system for competitive play as well as playlists and game types that are great for casual.
> >
> >
> >
> > Its all about balance between the two styles of gameplay.
>
> Except competitive players will always wreck casual players. It dosen’t matter if there’s a competitive mode or casual mode. If the overall game is too casual all the competitive players will leave or since the skill between a noob and pro is small since the game is so easy there will be lots of teams or parties rampaging through match making killing teams of randoms that don’t have mics or skill.

Agreed ^ and a perfect example of this is Halo Reach

I didn’t watch the 2nd video but the first was a failure for a number of reasons. Every single community within Halo is a niche when compared to the mass of general Halo players once you isolate them but not the others, yet you say the competitive community’s voice is somehow less important because of this…?

Do that to the Forge community then, now they’re smaller than everyone else. Now does that give 343 license to ignore that crowd and dumb down Forge or rehash Reach’s mode, or anything else that ultimately harms the community? After all, Halo: CE wasn’t originally designed for Forge, right?

The same logic could be applied to every other niche and guess what? It’s wrong every time. It doesn’t matter what Bungie intended Halo to be originally, it is what it is. Consider how Bungie responded to that community - with Halo 2 they added Trueskill and made balance changes to make the game more fair if something was amiss. Halo has undeniably become a competitive game and there are lots of competitive players out there, either in MLG or Team Slayer (I don’t where the logic came from that Arena and MLG are the only competitive playlists as if Rumble Pit or Slayer can’t be played competitively, and given all those playlists are under the COMPETITIVE hopper) and they have a right as customers to be serviced, otherwise why should they buy the game?

Also the idea that competitive player complaining about the game is some how ruining the forums or hurting casual players’ feelings is absurd. We all want something different out of Halo 4, and nobody deserves to be ignored or misinterpreted as “haters” or something.

There is no such thing as a non-competitive player. Casual gamers, as most people describe them, do not exist. They might not be obsessed with winning, but they’re still there for the competition.

You’re playing basketball with a few of your friends. Nothing serious, just for fun. A casual game. You have 5 people playing with you. Two of 'em, Joe and Nathan, are 6 feet tall, and reasonably athletic. They’re not pro athletes or anything, but you know what I mea. The rest of you are average, not out of shape, but not really sports guys either.

Nine times out of ten, you’re gonna split Joe and Nathan up on to separate teams. Why? To make it fair. To make the teams balanced. It might be a casual game, but that doesn’t mean balance isn’t important.

Fact is, EVERYONE benefits from increased competition. You can try to claim you don’t care about competition at all. You’re either 1 in a million, or lying. You might not be obsessed with it, but you still thrive on it. If you really didn’t care, you wouldn’t be hooting and hollering when you score an epic triple kill.

Competition, so necessarily balance, is what makes multiplayer fun for EVERYONE.

> I didn’t watch the 2nd video but the first was a failure for a number of reasons. Every single community within Halo is a niche when compared to the mass of general Halo players once you isolate them but not the others, yet you say the competitive community’s voice is somehow less important because of this…?
>
> Do that to the Forge community then, now they’re smaller than everyone else. Now does that give 343 license to ignore that crowd and dumb down Forge or rehash Reach’s mode, or anything else that ultimately harms the community? After all, Halo: CE wasn’t originally designed for Forge, right?
>
> The same logic could be applied to every other niche and guess what? It’s wrong every time. It doesn’t matter what Bungie intended Halo to be originally, it is what it is. Consider how Bungie responded to that community - with Halo 2 they added Trueskill and made balance changes to make the game more fair if something was amiss. Halo has undeniably become a competitive game and there are lots of competitive players out there, either in MLG or Team Slayer (I don’t where the logic came from that Arena and MLG are the only competitive playlists as if Rumble Pit or Slayer can’t be played competitively, and given all those playlists are under the COMPETITIVE hopper) and they have a right as customers to be serviced, otherwise why should they buy the game?
>
> Also the idea that competitive player complaining about the game is some how ruining the forums or hurting casual players’ feelings is absurd. We all want something different out of Halo 4, and nobody deserves to be ignored or misinterpreted as “haters” or something.

Agreed man you couldn’t have said it better

> <mark>I didn’t watch the 2nd video but the first was a failure for a number of reasons. Every single community within Halo is a niche when compared to the mass of general Halo players once you isolate them but not the others, yet you say the competitive community’s voice is somehow less important because of this…?</mark>
>
> Do that to the Forge community then, now they’re smaller than everyone else. Now does that give 343 license to ignore that crowd and dumb down Forge or rehash Reach’s mode, or anything else that ultimately harms the community? After all, Halo: CE wasn’t originally designed for Forge, right?
>
> The same logic could be applied to every other niche and guess what? It’s wrong every time. It doesn’t matter what Bungie intended Halo to be originally, it is what it is. Consider how Bungie responded to that community - with Halo 2 they added Trueskill and made balance changes to make the game more fair if something was amiss. Halo has undeniably become a competitive game and there are lots of competitive players out there, either in MLG or Team Slayer (I don’t where the logic came from that Arena and MLG are the only competitive playlists as if Rumble Pit or Slayer can’t be played competitively, and given all those playlists are under the COMPETITIVE hopper) and they have a right as customers to be serviced, otherwise why should they buy the game?
>
> Also the idea that competitive player complaining about the game is some how ruining the forums or hurting casual players’ feelings is absurd. We all want something different out of Halo 4, and nobody deserves to be ignored or misinterpreted as “haters” or something.

The competitive niche is much smaller than any other niche, like it or not.

And he is not suggesting that the competitive community has a less valid opinion than anyone else. But competitives are constantly giving everyone the sense that their opinion is more important than all others because they somehow know better than anyone else, and that constant complaining from this part of the community is unfair to everyone else who doesn’t want to have to hear it. He’s saying that your opinion is equal to everyone else’s, nothing more. You’re reading too far into it.

> There is no such thing as a non-competitive player. Casual gamers, as most people describe them, do not exist. They might not be obsessed with winning, but they’re still there for the competition.
>
> You’re playing basketball with a few of your friends. Nothing serious, just for fun. A casual game. You have 5 people playing with you. Two of 'em, Joe and Nathan, are 6 feet tall, and reasonably athletic. They’re not pro athletes or anything, but you know what I mea. The rest of you are average, not out of shape, but not really sports guys either.
>
> Nine times out of ten, you’re gonna split Joe and Nathan up on to separate teams. Why? To make it fair. To make the teams balanced. It might be a casual game, but that doesn’t mean balance isn’t important.
>
> Fact is, EVERYONE benefits from increased competition. You can try to claim you don’t care about competition at all. You’re either 1 in a million, or lying. You might not be obsessed with it, but you still thrive on it. If you really didn’t care, you wouldn’t be hooting and hollering when you score an epic triple kill.
>
> Competition, so necessarily balance, is what makes multiplayer fun for EVERYONE.

What’s your point? Sure we want balance. But it’s not important to us as other things. We don’t want 343 to put balance before fun.

> > <mark>I didn’t watch the 2nd video but the first was a failure for a number of reasons. Every single community within Halo is a niche when compared to the mass of general Halo players once you isolate them but not the others, yet you say the competitive community’s voice is somehow less important because of this…?</mark>
> >
> > Do that to the Forge community then, now they’re smaller than everyone else. Now does that give 343 license to ignore that crowd and dumb down Forge or rehash Reach’s mode, or anything else that ultimately harms the community? After all, Halo: CE wasn’t originally designed for Forge, right?
> >
> > The same logic could be applied to every other niche and guess what? It’s wrong every time. It doesn’t matter what Bungie intended Halo to be originally, it is what it is. Consider how Bungie responded to that community - with Halo 2 they added Trueskill and made balance changes to make the game more fair if something was amiss. Halo has undeniably become a competitive game and there are lots of competitive players out there, either in MLG or Team Slayer (I don’t where the logic came from that Arena and MLG are the only competitive playlists as if Rumble Pit or Slayer can’t be played competitively, and given all those playlists are under the COMPETITIVE hopper) and they have a right as customers to be serviced, otherwise why should they buy the game?
> >
> > Also the idea that competitive player complaining about the game is some how ruining the forums or hurting casual players’ feelings is absurd. We all want something different out of Halo 4, and nobody deserves to be ignored or misinterpreted as “haters” or something.
>
> The competitive niche is much smaller than any other niche, like it or not.
>
> And he is not suggesting that the competitive community has a less valid opinion than anyone else. But competitives are constantly giving everyone the sense that their opinion is more important than all others because they somehow know better than anyone else, and that constant complaining from this part of the community is unfair to everyone else who doesn’t want to have to hear it. He’s saying that your opinion is equal to everyone else’s, nothing more. You’re reading too far into it.

Smaller than the dedicated Forgers? Smaller than the lore nuts or the Grifball fanatics? I’m sorry, but where do you come up with your statistics? How could you possibly know how many competitive players there are?

Also the concept of self-entitlement is its own separate issue, most people who want a balanced game aren’t flaunting their superiority, from what I’ve seen. I can vouch for myself on that front. Go back and watch the commentated footage with the MLG guys playing Halo 4 with 343; Those are the ultimate competitve players, yet they weren’t -Yoinking!- up a storm and flaunting their superiority as the author implies they would have. If the author’s problem is with self-entiltememt and egocentricism, maybe 1: he shouldn’t respond to that with more egocentrism, as another user pointed out and 2: he should not have addressed it to the competitive community at large, that’s a pretty unfair generalization.

Ok a small History lesson

Halo 1

Balanced core game play
Fun for competitive people
Fun for casual people

Halo 2

Balanced core game play
Fun for competitive people
Fun for casual people

Halo 3

Balanced core game play
Fun for competitive people
Fun for casual people

Halo Reach

game play was NOT BALANCED AT ITS CORE
Not Fun for competitive people / a huge amount of things had to be change to MAKE IT COMPETITIVE
Fun for casual people


The history of ALL HALO GAMES IS if a game is competitive and balanced at its core game play EVERYONE CAN LIKE IT if the game is not competitive then only causal players will like its or stay ( looks at Reach )

So if you HATED HALOS 1 2 & 3 then DISAGREE WITH ME

But if you had fun wether you were COMPETITIVE or CAUSAL in HALO’S 1 2 & 3 then you are on my side

Have a beautiful day .

Can we please stop with these casual vs competitive threads?

One more and I will ask that anybody who makes one gets banned, hopefully the mods agree…

> > > <mark>I didn’t watch the 2nd video but the first was a failure for a number of reasons. Every single community within Halo is a niche when compared to the mass of general Halo players once you isolate them but not the others, yet you say the competitive community’s voice is somehow less important because of this…?</mark>
> > >
> > > Do that to the Forge community then, now they’re smaller than everyone else. Now does that give 343 license to ignore that crowd and dumb down Forge or rehash Reach’s mode, or anything else that ultimately harms the community? After all, Halo: CE wasn’t originally designed for Forge, right?
> > >
> > > The same logic could be applied to every other niche and guess what? It’s wrong every time. It doesn’t matter what Bungie intended Halo to be originally, it is what it is. Consider how Bungie responded to that community - with Halo 2 they added Trueskill and made balance changes to make the game more fair if something was amiss. Halo has undeniably become a competitive game and there are lots of competitive players out there, either in MLG or Team Slayer (I don’t where the logic came from that Arena and MLG are the only competitive playlists as if Rumble Pit or Slayer can’t be played competitively, and given all those playlists are under the COMPETITIVE hopper) and they have a right as customers to be serviced, otherwise why should they buy the game?
> > >
> > > Also the idea that competitive player complaining about the game is some how ruining the forums or hurting casual players’ feelings is absurd. We all want something different out of Halo 4, and nobody deserves to be ignored or misinterpreted as “haters” or something.
> >
> > The competitive niche is much smaller than any other niche, like it or not.
> >
> > And he is not suggesting that the competitive community has a less valid opinion than anyone else. But competitives are constantly giving everyone the sense that their opinion is more important than all others because they somehow know better than anyone else, and that constant complaining from this part of the community is unfair to everyone else who doesn’t want to have to hear it. He’s saying that your opinion is equal to everyone else’s, nothing more. You’re reading too far into it.
>
> Smaller than the dedicated Forgers? Smaller than the <mark>lore nuts</mark> or the Grifball fanatics? I’m sorry, but where do you come up with your statistics? How could you possibly know how many competitive players there are?
>
> Also the concept of self-entitlement is its own separate issue, most people who want a balanced game aren’t flaunting their superiority, from what I’ve seen. I can vouch for myself on that front. Go back and watch the commentated footage with the MLG guys playing Halo 4 with 343; Those are the ultimate competitve players, yet they weren’t -Yoinking!- up a storm and flaunting their superiority as the author implies they would have. If the author’s problem is with self-entiltememt and egocentricism, maybe 1: he shouldn’t respond to that with more egocentrism, as another user pointed out and 2: he should not have addressed it to the competitive community at large, that’s a pretty unfair generalization.

That is one of the larger player groups, I know that for a fact. See here, here, and here.

> > > > <mark>I didn’t watch the 2nd video but the first was a failure for a number of reasons. Every single community within Halo is a niche when compared to the mass of general Halo players once you isolate them but not the others, yet you say the competitive community’s voice is somehow less important because of this…?</mark>
> > > >
> > > > Do that to the Forge community then, now they’re smaller than everyone else. Now does that give 343 license to ignore that crowd and dumb down Forge or rehash Reach’s mode, or anything else that ultimately harms the community? After all, Halo: CE wasn’t originally designed for Forge, right?
> > > >
> > > > The same logic could be applied to every other niche and guess what? It’s wrong every time. It doesn’t matter what Bungie intended Halo to be originally, it is what it is. Consider how Bungie responded to that community - with Halo 2 they added Trueskill and made balance changes to make the game more fair if something was amiss. Halo has undeniably become a competitive game and there are lots of competitive players out there, either in MLG or Team Slayer (I don’t where the logic came from that Arena and MLG are the only competitive playlists as if Rumble Pit or Slayer can’t be played competitively, and given all those playlists are under the COMPETITIVE hopper) and they have a right as customers to be serviced, otherwise why should they buy the game?
> > > >
> > > > Also the idea that competitive player complaining about the game is some how ruining the forums or hurting casual players’ feelings is absurd. We all want something different out of Halo 4, and nobody deserves to be ignored or misinterpreted as “haters” or something.
> > >
> > > The competitive niche is much smaller than any other niche, like it or not.
> > >
> > > And he is not suggesting that the competitive community has a less valid opinion than anyone else. But competitives are constantly giving everyone the sense that their opinion is more important than all others because they somehow know better than anyone else, and that constant complaining from this part of the community is unfair to everyone else who doesn’t want to have to hear it. He’s saying that your opinion is equal to everyone else’s, nothing more. You’re reading too far into it.
> >
> > Smaller than the dedicated Forgers? Smaller than the <mark>lore nuts</mark> or the Grifball fanatics? I’m sorry, but where do you come up with your statistics? How could you possibly know how many competitive players there are?
> >
> > Also the concept of self-entitlement is its own separate issue, most people who want a balanced game aren’t flaunting their superiority, from what I’ve seen. I can vouch for myself on that front. Go back and watch the commentated footage with the MLG guys playing Halo 4 with 343; Those are the ultimate competitve players, yet they weren’t -Yoinking!- up a storm and flaunting their superiority as the author implies they would have. If the author’s problem is with self-entiltememt and egocentricism, maybe 1: he shouldn’t respond to that with more egocentrism, as another user pointed out and 2: he should not have addressed it to the competitive community at large, that’s a pretty unfair generalization.
>
> That is one of the larger player groups, I know that for a fact. See here, here, and here.

Great, I never implied it wasn’t big. In fact I would assume it isn’t considering the books sell millions of copies. Is this the part where I’m supposed to provide links to the Optimatch forums or MLGs website or something?