A hint that Invasion may return (Escalation)

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

[tiny spoiler from Escalation #1, but nothing plot-related]

It’s not a major thing but in issue #1 of Halo: Escalation, the new ongoing comic series, the Spartans aboard Infinity are depicted to be running a war games simulation of the Invasion game type.

This could just be a nice nod to Halo: Reach, but as Halo: Escalation takes place after the events of Halo 4, it makes sense for one to assume this as a good sign that Invasion may return as a multiplayer variant in the next Halo title!

Do you think this is a sign of things to come, or a simple nod to the past?

2

I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.

3

> I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.

Well, it wasn’t utilized correctly, it wasn’t really a bad concept. I just hope 343 puts gameplay before realism.

4

> > I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.
>
> Well, it wasn’t utilized correctly, it wasn’t really a bad concept. I just hope 343 puts gameplay before realism.

It makes things more “realistic”, but it does restrict and complicate things. I don’t see how it adds to gameplay. Give me an example of how halo could utilize it correctly.

5

While this news does please me greatly, since I would love to see Invasion return in future Halo games, I do find myself agreeing that the whole incorporating multiplayer into the story was a bad idea. It’s a good concept, in theory, but it doesn’t bring anything worthwhile to the game and, if anything, limits the things that can be done with the game.

6

> > > I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.
> >
> > Well, it wasn’t utilized correctly, it wasn’t really a bad concept. I just hope 343 puts gameplay before realism.
>
> It makes things more “realistic”, but it does restrict and complicate things. I don’t see how it adds to gameplay. Give me an example of how halo could utilize it correctly.

343 being able to tease new things through the story instead of making us wait until an event would be one. Which is exactly what they just did.

And yes it complicates things but doesn’t necessarily limit anything. 343 still put in game types like Grif ball, Snap shots and Fiesta despite it not being very canonical. The lack of Elites were the only real problem that the cannon caused and now there’s a chance we could get them back because they were teased in the comic too.

I like having my SIV being a real character in my favorite universe and I’d hate to see that go.

I can’t see it having any negative effects on game play in the future so it shouldn’t have to go.

7

> > > > I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.
> > >
> > > Well, it wasn’t utilized correctly, it wasn’t really a bad concept. I just hope 343 puts gameplay before realism.
> >
> > It makes things more “realistic”, but it does restrict and complicate things. I don’t see how it adds to gameplay. Give me an example of how halo could utilize it correctly.
>
> 343 being able to tease new things through the story instead of making us wait until an event would be one. Which is exactly what they just did.
>
> And yes it complicates things but doesn’t necessarily limit anything. 343 still put in game types like Grif ball, Snap shots and Fiesta despite it not being very canonical. The lack of Elites were the only real problem that the cannon caused and now there’s a chance we could get them back because they were teased in the comic too.
>
> I like having my SIV being a real character in my favorite universe and I’d hate to see that go.
>
> I can’t see it having any negative effects on game play in the future so it shouldn’t have to go.

Numbering so that it is easier to reply.

  1. The only thing in Halo 4 that expanded lore was Spartan Ops which could of been done without making MP lore. Spartan Ops could of been the only aspect of the MP that is lore and everything else is…what it was, some sort of Valhalla.

  2. It limits things just as being elites and Firefight. No normal battle with the Covenant would every go in that direction with the Covenant on firefight. They would just glass/bomb the area and move on. Nothing is that critical on our worlds besides Forerunner tech and even then the Covenant wouldn’t send only 2 dropships to secure the area they would lockdown everything on that side of the planet and send in the troops.

Elites might of been teased in the comics but this might just be because of the mega thread. Without that 343i would of just left us elite fans hanging in the dark.

  1. Thats just it thought you didn’t leave a mark yourself. Its not like the names of us will be forever ingrained in Halo lore. Thats why i made the thread about the Online War. Making it so people actually do things and fight in battles that they will be remembered for. Right now we are all just fireteam Crimson and thats the best we’ve got.

Mainly because it would be crazy to try and implement every player as an ultimate badass in the Halo Universe.

  1. One thing that could be a huge negative effect is what if something Happens in lore that destroys -Yoink- tons of UNSC equipment. The MP has to get that feeling that whatever has happened has happened and without it, than making the MP lore is useless and if 343i won’t do crazy things like that because they know it will have a negative affect on the MP than the lore will just become stale and every engagement with the Covenant will just be like a Saturday Morning Villain.

Imagine Jul or Didact being defeated over and over again saying “I’ll get you next time Master Chief and your puny human race too!” Than MC and Lasky do a slo mo mid air high five.

8

> 343 being able to tease new things through the story instead of making us wait until an event would be one. Which is exactly what they just did.

If this is 343i’s new way of doing things, I like it.

> And yes it complicates things but doesn’t necessarily limit anything. 343 still put in game types like Grif ball, Snap shots and Fiesta despite it not being very canonical.

Agreed.

> The lack of Elites were the only real problem that the cannon caused and now there’s a chance we could get them back because they were teased in the comic too.

Gameplay wise, elites have a different biped hitbox than Spartans, look at where their head’s sit vs humans.

You can’t really have them stand up right like in Halo CE and Reach because of their size, you need to get them to slouch to better accommodate for their height vs Human height.

> I like having my SIV being a real character in my favorite universe and I’d hate to see that go.
>
> I can’t see it having any negative effects on game play in the future so it shouldn’t have to go.

Agreed, even tho in Halo 2-Reach I did sometimes switch between elite and spartans, I mostly stuck with Spartans, so the fact that player’s spartans have a place within the Halo universe it makes the game that much more exciting.

Also, if 343i can figure a way to come up with a storyline that causes Elites and Humans to either team up and/or become permanent allies and form something like Star Trek’s Star Fleet, that would make it so players can play as elites and still have it cannon.

9

I see no reason not to make the multiplayer part of the lore. It has had great benefits to the lore fans and doesn’t restrict the multiplayer in any way whatsoever.

Do you guys really think that multiplayer being canon is the reason why Elites weren’t included? 343i could have easily made it work with the lore in a variety of ways (heck, I can come up with a few just sitting here typing this). It’s much more likely either the fans assumed that that was the reason, or they simply said that as an excuse. The real reason why they weren’t included is more than likely constraints.

I don’t see any drawbacks to the multiplayer canon, but I’ve seen quite a few benefits for the lore fans so far.

10

> > > > > I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.
> > > >
> > > > Well, it wasn’t utilized correctly, it wasn’t really a bad concept. I just hope 343 puts gameplay before realism.
> > >
> > > It makes things more “realistic”, but it does restrict and complicate things. I don’t see how it adds to gameplay. Give me an example of how halo could utilize it correctly.
> >
> > 343 being able to tease new things through the story instead of making us wait until an event would be one. Which is exactly what they just did.
> >
> > And yes it complicates things but doesn’t necessarily limit anything. 343 still put in game types like Grif ball, Snap shots and Fiesta despite it not being very canonical. The lack of Elites were the only real problem that the cannon caused and now there’s a chance we could get them back because they were teased in the comic too.
> >
> > I like having my SIV being a real character in my favorite universe and I’d hate to see that go.
> >
> > I can’t see it having any negative effects on game play in the future so it shouldn’t have to go.
>
> Numbering so that it is easier to reply.
>
> 1. The only thing in Halo 4 that expanded lore was Spartan Ops which could of been done without making MP lore. Spartan Ops could of been the only aspect of the MP that is lore and everything else is…what it was, some sort of Valhalla.
>
> 2. It limits things just as being elites and Firefight. No normal battle with the Covenant would every go in that direction with the Covenant on firefight. They would just glass/bomb the area and move on. Nothing is that critical on our worlds besides Forerunner tech and even then the Covenant wouldn’t send only 2 dropships to secure the area they would lockdown everything on that side of the planet and send in the troops.
>
> Elites might of been teased in the comics but this might just be because of the mega thread. Without that 343i would of just left us elite fans hanging in the dark.
>
> 3. Thats just it thought you didn’t leave a mark yourself. Its not like the names of us will be forever ingrained in Halo lore. Thats why i made the thread about the Online War. Making it so people actually do things and fight in battles that they will be remembered for. Right now we are all just fireteam Crimson and thats the best we’ve got.
>
> Mainly because it would be crazy to try and implement every player as an ultimate badass in the Halo Universe.
>
> 4. One thing that could be a huge negative effect is what if something Happens in lore that destroys Yoink! tons of UNSC equipment. The MP has to get that feeling that whatever has happened has happened and without it, than making the MP lore is useless and if 343i won’t do crazy things like that because they know it will have a negative affect on the MP than the lore will just become stale and every engagement with the Covenant will just be like a Saturday Morning Villain.
>
> Imagine Jul or Didact being defeated over and over again saying “I’ll get you next time Master Chief and your puny human race too!” Than MC and Lasky do a slo mo mid air high five.

Delko? :frowning:

I thought you of all people would appreciate your own Elite being a real character.

In your online war thread you talk about having our characters shape Halo history which is a great idea. That’s great but it’s no reason to end War games.

  1. You’re right, S ops was the only strong thing done with our multi player characters but just think about what can be done in the future.

I’m thinking stuff like 343 holding competitions and the winner’s Spartan can make an in game appearance.

Maybe one day clan systems could be put in place and those clans could be canonical Fire teams.

And of course there’s ideas like you online war.

There’s a lot more that can be done aside from S ops.

And yeah I guess our Spartans could work as only being cannon in scenarios like S ops but being my own guy 100% of the time is a great feeling and I see no reason why it can’t be like that.

  1. No real fight with the Flood is like the Flood game type. It’ safe to say the War games simulations aren’t a perfect simulation so neither would a Fire fight simulation. If the simulation isn’t an exact realistic scenario for the sake of game play fine. There are plenty of other things in the Halo universe that give up realism for the sake of game play.

And look at S ops. Sending two drop ships at a time with waves of enemies is exactly what happened. They just need to make a Fire fight simulation like those scenarios and flesh them out more.

  1. I agree with you. 343 needs to make more use of our characters so that we can leave our mark. Your online war idea would be a great way to make us feel part of the universe but just because our characters can be fleshed out in other areas doesn’t mean we still shouldn’t exist in War games.

  2. 343 have the next ten years planed. They wouldn’t have made multi player cannon if something like that was going to happen. Besides we can go back to a non canonical multi player at any point but we shouldn’t have to see it go if it’s not necessary.

But I don’t at all expect to convince you. You’re an Elite player, you haven’t had the chance for your ideal character to be cannon.

Having my own guy that exists in my favorite universe is a great and immersive feeling that’s hard to explain.

I really hope that some day you will have your Elite be a character and that 343 flesh us out more so that we can feel that we make a difference in the Halo universe just like your thread talks about.

I’m absolutely fine if you still want things back to the way things were before though. I know I can’t convince and you’re one of the last people I want to argue with about this.

11

> I see no reason not to make the multiplayer part of the lore. It has had great benefits to the lore fans and doesn’t restrict the multiplayer in any way whatsoever.
>
> Do you guys really think that multiplayer being canon is the reason why Elites weren’t included? 343i could have easily made it work with the lore in a variety of ways (heck, I can come up with a few just sitting here typing this). It’s much more likely either the fans assumed that that was the reason, or they simply said that as an excuse. The real reason why they weren’t included is more than likely constraints.
>
> I don’t see any drawbacks to the multiplayer canon, but I’ve seen quite a few benefits for the lore fans so far.

This. All of this,

12

Hopefully had 4 seriously lacked game modes

It was weird to have some aspects of reach and the main trilogy but not others

Example

We finally have a mech but no hornet or falcon

We have 5 types of scoped weapons but only 3 automatics (load out wise)

13

> I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.

It isn’t. All it does is establish a reason as to why two, or more, teams of colored spartans are fighting each other in random locations over pointless objects. Anything that happens in it is open to the person’s interpretation, such as all of a sudden, 1 spartan’s SAW can take kill an Infected Spartan like a hot knife through butter when it never did until he was all alone.

Elites not being available is more of time restraints. They can easily say that the Elites can exist in War Games because an AI(In this case, You) is controlling them.

14

> > > I don’t like the thought that multiplayer is now held down to laws of lore. It was a poor decision to take multiplayer in that direction in the first place.
> >
> > Well, it wasn’t utilized correctly, it wasn’t really a bad concept. I just hope 343 puts gameplay before realism.
>
> It makes things more “realistic”, but it does restrict and complicate things. I don’t see how it adds to gameplay. Give me an example of how halo could utilize it correctly.

It doesn’t add anything to the gameplay, it adds another layer to the story. The problem with Halo 4 is that the concept actually took things away from gameplay, which is bad. But I do think that this idea, if utilized correctly (in a way that compliments the gameplay and doesn’t restrict it) is actually pretty good.

15

> It doesn’t add anything to the gameplay, it adds another layer to the story. The problem with Halo 4 is that the concept actually took things away from gameplay, which is bad. But I do think that this idea, if utilized correctly (in a way that compliments the gameplay and doesn’t restrict it) is actually pretty good.

What exactly did it take away from the gameplay?

16

> > It doesn’t add anything to the gameplay, it adds another layer to the story. The problem with Halo 4 is that the concept actually took things away from gameplay, which is bad. But I do think that this idea, if utilized correctly (in a way that compliments the gameplay and doesn’t restrict it) is actually pretty good.
>
> What exactly did it take away from the gameplay?

Playing as Elites. And with it, Invasion.

17

> > What exactly did it take away from the gameplay?
>
> Playing as Elites. And with it, Invasion.

I highly doubt Elites and Invasion weren’t included due to lore issues. There are quite a few ways that I can think of right now to easily make that work with the canon. However, we do already know that there were a few things cut due to time constraints. Given that Elites would have to be well balanced they were probably cut due to time constraints. 343i also most likely chose to do Dominion over Invasion due to the fact that they’re both complicated modes and require a lot of time to make them work correctly.

Do we have a quote of 343i saying that Invasion and Elites weren’t included due to the multiplayer being canon? The more I see it be said the more likely it seems that it was just an excuse the fans made up that stuck.

18

> > What exactly did it take away from the gameplay?
>
> Playing as Elites. And with it, Invasion.

I highly doubt Elites and Invasion weren’t included due to lore issues. There are quite a few ways that I can think of right now to easily make that work with the canon. However, we do already know that there were a few things cut due to time constraints. Given that Elites would have to be well balanced they were probably cut due to time constraints. 343i also most likely chose to do Dominion over Invasion due to the fact that they’re both complicated modes and require a lot of time to make them work correctly.

Do we have a quote of 343i saying that Invasion and Elites weren’t included due to the multiplayer being canon? The more I see it be said the more likely it seems that it was just an excuse the fans made up that stuck.
[/quote]
Alright. We can’t know, really. Either way, I think canon multiplayer is a good concept.

19

Invasion concept is great. It needs to evolve and be much improved. But it has a great concept and if done correctly should be much better than BF Rush.

In its current state (HR), it needs much improvements. But it has great potential. In REACH, the spawn system is broken (especially starting spawns). And standing in a square for 30 seconds, it pretty bad. But for example, Breakpoint where the second objective i planting a bomb and the third is to capture a core. Is brilliant. Only the first stage needs to improve.

I would love to see evolved version of Invasion and Dominion
return for Halo 5. And I think these two playlist could work very well with a player count increase to 24/32.