Something i thought of earlier got me thinking, and i wanted to know your opinion on the matter. As far as I’m aware, a games skill gap is the difference between the maximum and minimum skill levels. Games with random elements like call of duty or reach will have a smaller skill gap because a worse player can get lucky kills and a better player will sometimes get unlucky. So taking away a players advantage will lower the skill gap. That means that making random weapon drops lowers the games skill gap, right? Well lets assume they are not random, but the icon saying that they are dropping still appears, that would give help to a newer player, making the skill gap lower. It sounds simple on paper, but looking at it differently can make things more confusing. Since the element is not random, it makes it HARDER for the veteran player to win, it means to be good at the game you need to be even BETTER with the halo triangle, so you could look at it as instead of shrinking the skill gap like reach, it’s just shifting it up a bit. Maybe i’m over simplifying the definition ‘skill gap’ and i do want to say that i am still on the fence on this idea, but i wanted to bring it up to see what you guys think. What are your thoughts on a games skill gap, and whats the best way of making a game fun for both a new player and a veteran gamer as well?
It decreases the… knowledge, gap. Not necessarily skill gap
I see what you mean. The thing for me is everybody seems upset with 343 for introducing new things into halo 4, fearing that it will lower the skill gap, worrying that it will take away from the halo triangle, but seem just as upset when they try to increase focus on raw skill by taking away knowledge. Why do people want to take away AA’s, equipment load outs and sprint out of halo 4 for giving players advantages off spawn, but it’s okay for the guy who’s got the piece of paper and the stopwatch next to him to have that advantage.
The thing is, if the weapon spawns have no kind of pattern to them and more importantly, no kind of countdown to tell when they will spawn, the setting is detrimental. In any other case it’s only less detrimental, but only with perfect predictability is it not detrimental. Why? Because predictability allows for more consistent gameplay and tactics. Knowing when a weapon spawns allows you to integrate the weapon spawn into your strategy, allowing you to utilize strategies better. With random conditions, you never really know when and where the weapon will spawn, allowing for lower strategical effiency. That’s technically how it works, the knowledge isn’t the skill, the skill is the ability to use that knowledge.
But they have stated that the drops will be predictable, the thing that i’m talking about is the marker on your screen telling not only where it’s going to drop, but how long it’s going to take. Does removing that element of knowledge make the skill gap smaller or not.
> The thing is, if the weapon spawns have no kind of pattern to them and more importantly, no kind of countdown to tell when they will spawn, the setting is detrimental. In any other case it’s only less detrimental, but only with perfect predictability is it not detrimental. Why? Because predictability allows for more consistent gameplay and tactics. Knowing when a weapon spawns allows you to integrate the weapon spawn into your strategy, allowing you to utilize strategies better. With random conditions, you never really know when and where the weapon will spawn, allowing for lower strategical effiency. That’s technically how it works, the knowledge isn’t the skill, the skill is the ability to use that knowledge.
343i has already said that the weapon spawns will not be completely random, my personal guess is that there are a few set spawn-points/drop-zones, but which weapon dropping where is “random”. They might even have a few spawn points they’ll switch between, just like when ordnance drops in Firefight, they differ between a few spots and what weapon is inside differs, but it’s not “completely random and unpredictable”.
Furtherer more I think (I’m not sure) that 343i said that they would let every player know when a new weapon was "on it’s way and when it was about to spawn. Hence you’ll get a heads up “incoming sniper over there in 10 seconds” and can choose to pursue the weapon, or leave it. A skilled player will memorize the weapon spawns and learn the fastest/best ways to get to each weapon spawn without getting killed, or even control strategic parts of teh map if possible (skill/skillgap) while even a new player at least egts a chance to know when and where a weapon spawns.
This system still rewards good players, but even more, it rewards teamplay and tactics, introducing a true skillgap. Camping is not encouraged, as it were with the old system, and by the way, even my 45 years old mom can manage to find a picture of a map layout, with weapon spawns, and time them. It does not take skill, only effort, and camping of course, but camping ain’t no skill.
There is no skill gap, there for there is nothing to discussion
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> 343i has already said that the weapon spawns will not be completely random, my personal guess is that there are a few set spawn-points/drop-zones, but which weapon dropping where is “random”. They might even have a few spawn points they’ll switch between, just like when ordnance drops in Firefight, they differ between a few spots and what weapon is inside differs, but it’s not “completely random and unpredictable”.
> Furtherer more I think (I’m not sure) that 343i said that they would let every player know when a new weapon was "on it’s way and when it was about to spawn. Hence you’ll get a heads up “incoming sniper over there in 10 seconds” and can choose to pursue the weapon, or leave it. A skilled player will memorize the weapon spawns and learn the fastest/best ways to get to each weapon spawn without getting killed, or even control strategic parts of teh map if possible (skill/skillgap) while even a new player at least egts a chance to know when and where a weapon spawns.
> This system still rewards good players, but even more, it rewards teamplay and tactics, introducing a true skillgap. Camping is not encouraged, as it were with the old system, and by the way, even my 45 years old mom can manage to find a picture of a map layout, with weapon spawns, and time them. It does not take skill, only effort, and camping of course, but camping ain’t no skill.
I apologize if this may sound rude, but you should honestly not talk about the subject at hand. We went through this discussion before, I have long ago understood the spawns won’t be random. And as far as I remember, I also explained why static weapon spawns discourage camping as much as the new system and encourage encounters as much. You simply lack the understanding to talk about the subject, but of course that is just an advice you aren’t forced to follow.
Anyhow, let me make it clear that the weapon spawn system used in Reach was horrible and it was not a static weapon spawn system, it’s not a system I ever talk about when comparing this new system to the old system. I make all my references of static weapon spawns based on the weapon spawn system of Halo CE that really did not leave any room for camping and allowed much deeper strategies than this Halo 4 system. It was the perfect system for weapon spawns in Halo. And let me ask you one thing, if anyone can go and learn the weapon spawns, why do I hardly ever run into people who time the weapon spawns?
And finally, I still want to make it very clear. No one, absolutely no one is wanting the Reach weapon spawn system back. It was absolutely horrible in every regard. But, a matter of fact is that this new system has absolutely no benefits over the weapon spawn system used in Halo CE. Only difference is that the weapons spawn at slightly different locations and the system is a bit more forgiving for less skilled players because the game tells everyone where and when the weapon spawns.
> But they have stated that the drops will be predictable, the thing that i’m talking about is the marker on your screen telling not only where it’s going to drop, but how long it’s going to take. Does removing that element of knowledge make the skill gap smaller or not.
In some ways yes and in some ways no. You see, as I said, the knowledge in itself isn’t the important thing. It’s the ability to use that knowledge. And as I said, removing predictability (≈knowledge) removes some strategical possibilities. So, in short, yes. Removing the knowledge decreases the skill gap to some extent. But to what extent is completely up to the amount of knowledge removed.
P.S. Both you and Grumbledock missed the word “if” in the first sentence. It was meant as an example of how removing the knowledge factor removes the strategy factor. Well, seems like it didn’t work as intended.
I guess i did misunderstand your point, but i still feel that you are missing the point of the thread a little. When you take out the knowledge gap, it puts players on an even leveler (is that even a word?) playing field. This means that the gameplay would be dependent on the halo triangle, forcing players to master those aspects of the game. A good player will be able to go 20-0 without timing the sniper, because he is less likely to get it and can’t fall back on his knowledge, making him a better player, which could be interpreted as increasing the skill gap, forcing players to improve there core skills. I know it’s a controversial opinion, but i don’t want people assuming that decreasing the knowledge immediately means a smaller skill gap.
since the br is apparently a 1.3334 second min. killtime weapon, with recoil. that weapon will have tremendous skill gap potential.
yes, there will supposedly be telegraphed power weapon spawns, but they don’t really take away from overall skill because the bread n butter of the game is map control.
the aa’s…well that’s another thing entirely. as long as they are balanced, and don’t really add that much to gameplay…i don’t see a problem.