A Concerned, Passionate Halo Fan on MCC & H5G

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

DISCLAIMER: Most if not all of what this thread contains if opinionated. I’ve tried being as pragmatic as possible but I consider myself a passionate person so if you’re against critical viewpoints I suggest you don’t read this thread. Thank you, and please be constructive whether you’re going to be positive or negative!

Before I start I’d just like to say that can someone link to me a tweet or a post by an official dev about the reused skins/features we saw in MCC at E3 being placeholders and not final? I read something like that but seemed to have lost it. Thanks!

For starters, I’d like to say that I became VERY critical of Halo, beginning with Bungie’s Reach and it only got worse with 343’s Halo 4.

What really bothers me is that everyone is automatically jumping on the hype train and white knighting 343. We have NO IDEA if Halo 5 will be Halo’s redemption or the nail in the coffin. It seems like almost everyone just suddenly forgot all of 343’s -Yoink–ups after E3 and is now blindly praising them like the new messiahs of Halo. That’s one of the main things that’s really bothering me.

Now another thing is that I’m quite indifferent about the MCC. On one hand, Halo 3 will be “new” for this decade (Halo 3 was the Precursors’ Gift to Gaming), but on the other hand it does seem very pointless and a borderline CASH GRAB. To add insult to injury this will be friggin 60 bucks (the price isn’t the main point here), and it really is only going to be mostly relevant for about a year because H5G will be coming out a year later. What’s the point of the MCC hype if, a year later, H5G will be automatically releasing? Most gamers nowadays move on to the shiniest thing and USUALLY stay there (there are FEW exceptions however, like Halo 4). Also, will MCC’s gameplay retention be that impressive? We’re getting virtually a reskin of all the Halo numerical titles. (It won’t be a total reskin, but for those of you that aren’t advanced in English literature “virtually” implies it.)

I’d rather be trying out and preferably be a long-term player of new titles rather than old titles being re-released. Sheesh.

With H5G all we got was a CGI trailer with more lame Spartan-IV armor, more watered-down Spartan story (Spartan-IV armor and story are both extremely lame IMO), and even though the Arbiter is speaking (that’s a HUGE plus), there wasn’t anything concrete in the video that showed or implied that 343 has actually been listening to us and it told pretty much all we already know. Remember when 343 said they’d listen to us during Halo 4’s development? Look what happened there! Sure, it’s been said by a dev that AAs won’t be in H5G (that’s another HUGE plus), but people need to be more realistic and stop looking at this through rose-colored glasses.

In conclusion, we just need a lot more concrete information that’ll show 343 has been listening to us, but I do hope that the MCC performs extremely well in population and gives them the metrics that people want CLASSIC Halo back. They don’t want Reach (maybe some because Reach had a few good stuff), but mainly they do NOT want Halo 4. They don’t want Halo being modernized. That’s NOT what Halo is and what it shouldn’t be. However, since this is basically a re-release of the Halo numerical titles, this will bring some detractors as people do want to actually play new titles and not titles that have become stale many years later (I have seen a few critics and they bring up a valid point to think about because how is this an appeal to getting the overall playerbase to come back to playing older games, just updated?). The classic Halo games were titans in the industry during their release and their years following, but after many years later when you revisit them you have that nostalgia factor and sometimes it just wears off and you get bored.

There are many factors here to consider on both ends but I feel both are almost completely valid.

As for the Elites, I don’t like how in the recent pictures released they’ve been given more menacing looks. Wasn’t that reserved for Ripa 'Moramee? The Elites looked perfect just the way they were during Halo 2/3. My only problem with 2/Reach was that you couldn’t customize their armor, and I feel that that is something that shouldn’t have been taken away with Reach. Furthermore, they should have more armor sets to choose from because the ones from Halo 3 were just too few. Those barbaric and menacing looks are reserved for the Brutes, NOT for the Sangheili (1 exemption is Ripa 'Moramee).

2

> snip

I disagree with everything here, I feel the MCC is to give us all the Halo games on the XB1 that way the greats can be played again you know…not Halo 3, Reach or 4. Its to give fans of the REAL halo series H:CE and H2 their glory days once again and allow people that started with the 360 games a chance to play the greats. Nothing from Reach was good while 4 does present a few things that could be re-worked. Besides would you not rather H3 have a good pop again just in case you do not like H5G?

Re read I agree with the thing Sangheili armor but idk maybe the pics we have seen they are just angry. Also have you seen SGT/Major Johnson’s pic? I find it to look awesome and hilarious at the same time.

3

> DISCLAIMER:
>
>
> What really bothers me is that everyone is automatically jumping on the hype train and white knighting 343. We have NO IDEA if Halo 5 will be Halo’s redemption or the nail in the coffin. It seems like almost everyone just suddenly forgot all of 343’s -Yoink!–ups after E3 and is now blindly praising them like the new messiahs of Halo. That’s one of the main things that’s really bothering me.
>
> …
>
> With H5G all we got was a CGI trailer with more lame Spartan-IV armor, more watered-down Spartan story (Spartan-IV armor and story are both extremely lame IMO), and even though the Arbiter is speaking (that’s a HUGE plus), there wasn’t anything concrete in the video that showed or implied that 343 has actually been listening to us and it told pretty much all we already know. Remember when 343 said they’d listen to us during Halo 4’s development? Look what happened there! Sure, it’s been said by a dev that AAs won’t be in H5G (that’s another HUGE plus), but people need to be more realistic and stop looking at this through rose-colored glasses.

At this point we can nothing do but speculate on how things might be, and that’s exactly what we’re doing here. It’s wrong to say that everyone is looking through rosa glasses, when 343i actually made the best out of halos current situation and gave us the mcc. What’s wrong with looking forward to it?
Don’t meet trouble halfway, be confident that 343i learned out of it’s mistakes or whatever you wanna call it.

4

“The story is watered down.”

We don’t even know a single detail about the story. Everything so far has been speculation. Way to pre-emptively hate on Halo 5 though.

“To add insult to injury this will be friggin 60 bucks (the price isn’t the main point here), and it really is only going to be mostly relevant for about a year because H5G will be coming out a year later”

It’s four complete games with additional content. Well worth the money, and that’s coming from the first person to criticize AAA titles for their expensive pricing and sleazy practices. The amount of content and effort being put in, you aren’t going to get it for lower than $60.

If every ‘classic halo fan’ hates Halo 5 then it will be relevant for quite a lot longer than a year. Which I’m sure they will for whatever reason. Multiplayer isn’t the only aspect either, I’m looking forward to replaying Halo 2 in HD.

Halo 2 Anniversary is also something everyone has been begging for. You can’t say they aren’t listening when they not only meet expectations, but go beyond expectations.

“Remember when 343 said they’d listen to us during Halo 4’s development?”

Citation needed. Of all the times I’ve heard people say “343I is taking Halo back to its roots” I’ve never been given a source of this quote.

" after many years later when you revisit them you have that nostalgia factor and sometimes it just wears off and you get bored."

Is that the excuse you are going to use if MCC completely tanks? Just wondering.
More interestingly, are people still going to claim to be “the majority” if MCC tanks?

Not saying it will, but just preparing myself for the wave of -Yoink- that will inevitably follow if it does.

The only thing that stands out to me is the aesthetics, which I agree are sub-par. But they are the least of my concern.

5

I didn’t just forget about 343i’s mistakes. I’m praising them because they’re doing something right. I’ll praise them when they do the right thing, but I’ll also criticize them for when they make a mistake. That’s not being blind.

6

> “The story is watered down.”
>
> We don’t even know a single detail about the story. Everything so far has been speculation. Way to pre-emptively hate on Halo 5 though.

Well well well, woke up on the wrong side of the bed today? There’s no reason to be snarky. Great way of being constructive! /sarcasm

The Spartan-IV’s story started when 343 took over Halo. I did refer to H5G but I did also imply the story in general. Spartan-IV’s story and the armor sucks. Period. Pretty much ever singly piece of armor from Halo 4 made me want to gouge my eyes out. Yes, I’m being blunt, but furthermore, I don’t mean to be snarky because Halo 4 had an infinite amount of problems and that’s certainly something we don’t need to repeat for the 5638295th time.

> “To add insult to injury this will be friggin 60 bucks (the price isn’t the main point here), and it really is only going to be mostly relevant for about a year because H5G will be coming out a year later”
>
> It’s four complete games with additional content. Well worth the money, and that’s coming from the first person to criticize AAA titles for their expensive pricing and sleazy practices. The amount of content and effort being put in, you aren’t going to get it for lower than $60.

Being more snarky I see.

If you read correctly I said “THE PRICE ISN’T THE MAIN POINT.” What is it about that that you don’t understand?

As for the additional content, yes, we’re getting H2A. It’s something that many fans have been asking for, I will not deny that, but is it really going to be worth it if it’s only going to remain “relevant” for about a year until H5G releases? Whether H5G does good or bad, that’s for a totally different discussion because as I said before, we don’t have really any concrete info on whether or not it’ll prove 343 has been listening to us.

> If every ‘classic halo fan’ hates Halo 5 then it will be relevant for quite a lot longer than a year. Which I’m sure they will for whatever reason.
>
> Halo 2 Anniversary is also something everyone has been begging for. You can’t say they aren’t listening when they not only meet expectations, but go beyond expectations.

Yeah, because Halo 4 surely did go beyond expectations! I never said 343i hasn’t been listening now (if I have or implied it, please correct me), but I’m just saying that we don’t know for certain if they truly are. They claimed so during Halo 4’s development and we all know how that turned out.

> “Remember when 343 said they’d listen to us during Halo 4’s development?”
>
> Citation needed. Of all the times I’ve heard people say “343I is taking Halo back to its roots” I’ve never been given a source of this quote.

The fact that you need me to cite this shows you shouldn’t be taken very seriously. To add onto that it’s just pretty sad IMO. Despite coming off as though you’re knowledgeable within 343’s actions and well-informed in general, how do you NOT know this?

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Both-Halo-1-HD-and-Halo-4-Evoke-the-Original-Experience-210227.shtml

Though coming off differently in those articles, it’s been said by them multiple times in different ways and it’s just inexplicable how you don’t know that. Or maybe you’re acting like you don’t know even though you do just to prove a point – and if so then please stop with your crass attitude.

> " after many years later when you revisit them you have that nostalgia factor and sometimes it just wears off and you get bored."
>
> Is that the excuse you are going to use if MCC completely tanks? Just wondering.
> More interestingly, are people still going to claim to be “the majority” if MCC tanks?

Excluding this response, this part deserves no response for misconstruing my thoughts and responses – and in some cases possibly even on purpose.

> Not saying it will, but just preparing myself for the wave of -Yoink!- that will inevitably follow if it does.
>
> The only thing that stands out to me is the aesthetics, which I agree are sub-par. But they are the least of my concern.

If this forums allowed us to use emotes, there’s only one that could sum-up virtually your whole post: :rolleyes:

It almost sounds like you were coming off as borderline baiting. Until you’re actually able to be constructive and reread my points, I will not bother responding to someone as crass as you.

7

> At this point we can nothing do but speculate on how things might be, and that’s exactly what we’re doing here. It’s wrong to say that everyone is looking through rosa glasses, when 343i actually made the best out of halos current situation and gave us the mcc. What’s wrong with looking forward to it?
> Don’t meet trouble halfway, be confident that 343i learned out of it’s mistakes or whatever you wanna call it.

There is nothing wrong with speculation. Look at my post, most if not all the points I’ve made are critical observations.

I am pretty excited for the MCC, moreso currently than I am with H5G. There’s also nothing wrong with looking forward to it. I might have implied that and if I did I apologize, but it just seems as if everyone completely forget the past, infinite amount of mistakes 343 made with H4. It’s good to look beyond and discuss what’s going on now and what might happen in the future, but we also need to consider what’s happened in the past because in some ways or more those instances might come to haunt us again. I don’t want to be surprised when H5G comes out and maybe 343 did listen to us, but not as much as what they were told by the majority.

As Rakklaggio said below, it’s good to praise where and when praise is earned and same applies with criticizing where and when mistakes are made, but as I said before it seemed like everyone forgot who exactly is in control here and what they’ve done in the past. There’s only so much the fanbase can do, but I do have some of my faith restored in 343. As far as H5G goes I’m still highly skeptical mainly due to the fact that Spartan-IVs still seem pretty central to the lore, but for the MCC I’m pretty hyped.

8

> The Spartan-IV’s story started when 343 took over Halo. I did refer to H5G but I did also imply the story in general.

What precisely sucked about it?

> If you read correctly I said “THE PRICE ISN’T THE MAIN POINT.” What is it about that that you don’t understand?

Just because it isn’t the MAIN point doesn’t mean I can’t address it. Nor is it the only point I addressed.

> Whether H5G does good or bad, that’s for a totally different discussion because as I said before, we don’t have really any concrete info on whether or not it’ll prove 343 has been listening to us.

It’s relevant because it ties into how long people will play the MCC. Even if Halo 5 does amazing I’m sure a minority will stick around to play MCC.

> The fact that you need me to cite this shows you shouldn’t be taken very seriously. To add onto that it’s just pretty sad IMO. Despite coming off as though you’re knowledgeable within 343’s actions and well-informed in general, how do you NOT know this?
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/halo-4-going-back-to-what-made-halo-1-amazing-28753204/
>
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Both-Halo-1-HD-and-Halo-4-Evoke-the-Original-Experience-210227.shtml

The first article doesn’t mention going back to roots outside the author’s headline. The quotes themselves are vague statements about the campaign, they could’ve simply been talking about the sense of wonder Halo Ce’s campaign had. Which is most likely since the entire context of the article was about Halo Anniversary.

The second article is just the same quotes.

The campaign is one thing I would consider a success.

> If this forums allowed us to use emotes,

I wish it did to be honest.

9

> It seems like almost everyone just suddenly forgot all of 343’s -Yoink!–ups after E3 and is now blindly praising them like the new messiahs of Halo.

> Of all the times I’ve heard people say “343I is taking Halo back to its roots” I’ve never been given a source of this quote.

I saw it once, and the context did not explicitly specify multiplayer. I’m assuming whoever said that was talking about the Campaign, and further assuming that what they meant was Chief was finally the main character after two games (ODST and Reach) where he wasn’t. Of course, telling an truth that’s not obscured by vagueness just wouldn’t build as much hype.

Now, Frankie mentioned only a couple times that the beta will only be a “small slice of the overall multiplayer experience.” And it is only this small slice has been described as being “arena” gameplay with “equal starts” and “no AAs.” They haven’t said anything about the rest of the multiplayer, nor have they stressed that these settings are beta-specific as much as they’ve stressed the settings themselves. Not that I expect them to release all multiplayer details, of course–the game is still over a year away from release–however, with the way they talk about it, it makes me very concerned that this classic-like taste of Halo 5 multiplayer will end up just being Halo 5’s equivalent of Proving Ground in the final product.

And why shouldn’t I feel this way? 343i’s ambiguity was misleading during Halo 4’s development and I see no reason why Halo 5 will be any different. The MCC could be seen as a fan service (which I am grateful for), but it could also be seen as a way to get them to shut up while they make the game they haughtily think will be “next-generation arena multiplayer.” I’m not saying I think that; what I’m saying is that unlike with Bungie, I wouldn’t put that past 343i.

> If every ‘classic halo fan’ hates Halo 5 then it will be relevant for quite a lot longer than a year.

Definitely agree with this. To be honest, I’m much more hyped for the MCC than Halo 5 because with the MCC, I don’t have to worry about whether or not it will suck.

10

> What really bothers me is that everyone is automatically jumping on the hype train and white knighting 343. We have NO IDEA if Halo 5 will be Halo’s redemption or the nail in the coffin. It seems like almost everyone just suddenly forgot all of 343’s -Yoink!–ups after E3 and is now blindly praising them like the new messiahs of Halo. That’s one of the main things that’s really bothering me.

People are naturally excited and hyped after E3. But there are some definite reasons people are praising 343i, even when there ia no true gameplay yet.
343i has confirmed that Arena settings are returning, 100%. Equal starts, competitive play. They’ve also stated that the game is receiving new gameplay mechanics, which can actually freshen up the gameplay like boarding and dual weilding did.
It’s not completely baseless, but getting overhyped is always a bad thing.

> Now another thing is that I’m quite indifferent about the MCC. On one hand, Halo 3 will be “new” for this decade (Halo 3 was the Precursors’ Gift to Gaming), but on the other hand it does seem very pointless and a borderline CASH GRAB. To add insult to injury this will be friggin 60 bucks (the price isn’t the main point here), and it really is only going to be mostly relevant for about a year because H5G will be coming out a year later. What’s the point of the MCC hype if, a year later, H5G will be automatically releasing? Most gamers nowadays move on to the shiniest thing and USUALLY stay there (there are FEW exceptions however, like Halo 4). Also, will MCC’s gameplay retention be that impressive? We’re getting virtually a reskin of all the Halo numerical titles. (It won’t be a total reskin, but for those of you that aren’t advanced in English literature “virtually” implies it.)
>
> I’d rather be trying out and preferably be a long-term player of new titles rather than old titles being re-released. Sheesh.

Well, of course it’s a strategy to move a lot of fans to the Xbox One and help convince those people on the edge of decising. Every single thing people do is done for money. Halo: Combat Evolved was done for money.
I know you said the price isn’t the main point… but seriously? This is over $300 in content. 4 complete games, two of which are regarded as the gods of online gaming. Halo 2 is receiving full anniversary treatment. Every game comes with its original multiplayer running at 1080p, 60fps on dedicated servers. That is over 100 maps, all the gametypes, all the weapons and vehicles. All the campaigns. Everything upgraded in some way for Xbox One.
$60 for this is the very definition of a bargain.

Also, the game is going to be fully supported, even after H5G. Frankie confirmed that. There will be those who will move on, as expected. And still there will be those that remain. Every game is only “relevant” for a few years in that way, but people play for many years afterwords.

The game isn’t supposed to be revolutionary. It’s supposed to be nostalgic. Story wise, it’s a look back at the Master Chief’s story, as his past becomes very important in H5G. The multiplayer brings everyone, new and old, into the Halo series. Showing the beginning and the evolution. Reviving old memories, and giving people the chance to play the games that revolutionized online multiplayer, which can’t be effectively played today. CE will be online for the first time, and Halo 2 will return to being online. All the games will run smoother and faster. If you were a fan of the past Halos, this is a dream come true.

> With H5G all we got was a CGI trailer with more lame Spartan-IV armor, more watered-down Spartan story (Spartan-IV armor and story are both extremely lame IMO), and even though the Arbiter is speaking (that’s a HUGE plus), there wasn’t anything concrete in the video that showed or implied that 343 has actually been listening to us and it told pretty much all we already know. Remember when 343 said they’d listen to us during Halo 4’s development? Look what happened there! Sure, it’s been said by a dev that AAs won’t be in H5G (that’s another HUGE plus), but people need to be more realistic and stop looking at this through rose-colored glasses.

Would you prefer an alpha gameplay demo that will look nothing like the finished product because it is still a year away from launch? Of course it was going to be CGI. There is a beta coming in December.
The armor is opinionated. And… there are dozens of armor sets and configurations. You can’t make an opinion by simply judging one armor set we don’t see too clearly.
The Spartan-IV story is a small part of the universe. The rest of the universe is incredible. And I fail to see how you can make any opinion on story based off of a multiplayer beta cgi trailer.

I don’t see how a Halo 2 Anniversary, original multiplayers for all the games, a beta, dedicated servers, and dedicated arena settings say anything but 343i is listening. They can’t tell us everything now, anyway.

[quoteIn conclusion, we just need a lot more concrete information that’ll show 343 has been listening to us, but I do hope that the MCC performs extremely well in population and gives them the metrics that people want CLASSIC Halo back. They don’t want Reach (maybe some because Reach had a few good stuff), but mainly they do NOT want Halo 4. They don’t want Halo being modernized. That’s NOT what Halo is and what it shouldn’t be. However, since this is basically a re-release of the Halo numerical titles, this will bring some detractors as people do want to actually play new titles and not titles that have become stale many years later (I have seen a few critics and they bring up a valid point to think about because how is this an appeal to getting the overall playerbase to come back to playing older games, just updated?). The classic Halo games were titans in the industry during their release and their years following, but after many years later when you revisit them you have that nostalgia factor and sometimes it just wears off and you get bored.

There are many factors here to consider on both ends but I feel both are almost completely valid.

As for the Elites, I don’t like how in the recent pictures released they’ve been given more menacing looks. Wasn’t that reserved for Ripa 'Moramee? The Elites looked perfect just the way they were during Halo 2/3. My only problem with 2/Reach was that you couldn’t customize their armor, and I feel that that is something that shouldn’t have been taken away with Reach. Furthermore, they should have more armor sets to choose from because the ones from Halo 3 were just too few. Those barbaric and menacing looks are reserved for the Brutes, NOT for the Sangheili (1 exemption is Ripa 'Moramee).[/quote]
Information will come with time.

The Sangheili were never supposed to be pretty.