A Compromise of Sprint and AA's

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Whether or not Sprint and AA’s belong in Halo is one of the most highly debated topics on these forums.

I personally have my own opinion on the topics, based on being a competitive player, but today I am hear to tease some options that people might not have considered.

First I am going to say that sprint needs to be removed. There are other threads explaining why, but just to sum it up, Halo is played using standard movement. When you add fast movement and remove the ability to actually play (shoot), it ruins how it plays normally. However, just to appease all audiences, it will still be one of the options in the poll.

Now I want to throw the idea out there that we replace sprint with one of the balanced AA’s

I think AA’s have the potential of bringing a new meta game to Halo; much like how equipment in Halo 3 brought something new then. I would say that in their current state, most of the AA’s are balanced enough to add to the game, with out taking away too much. Especially if there was only one AA, that way it was default for everyone, making it so that it was balanced and based on who could use it the best.

However there are options to make them balanced even more, if people find that they take away from the gameplay. The first is making the AA’s a one use item, like equipment in Halo 3. I don’t necessarily think this is the best option as it then makes certain battles based on who happened to pick up the equipment.
The other option I thought of, is trading shield power for AA usage. That way by gaining the advantage of the AA, you also have the disadvantage of having less shields while using it. I won’t put these options in the poll just to reduce the amount of poll options, so feel free to discuss it in the thread.

The last thing I want to mention is bringing back armor lock (gasp :o). I realize that this is the most overpowered and hated AA out there. However I believe that that was because it had the emp and it lasted way to long, that it just made it rediculous. I think that if it was a short burst, enough to clear out random nades or survive one rocket, that it would be a lot more balanced.

What do you guys think?

Jubs

Edit: You can vote for more than one, so pick your top 2 or 3.

2

> I personally have my own opinion on the topics, <mark>based on being a competitive player</mark>
>
> The last thing I want to mention is <mark>bringing back armor lock</mark>

I’m sorry…WHAT?!

Armor lock takes first place in my list of things in Halo I hate most for very good reasons. Press X for invincibility is simply a terrible idea in any shooter ever.

3

> > I personally have my own opinion on the topics, <mark>based on being a competitive player</mark>
> >
> > The last thing I want to mention is <mark>bringing back armor lock</mark>
>
> I’m sorry…WHAT?!
>
> Armor lock takes first place in my list of things in Halo I hate most for very good reasons. Press X for invincibility is simply a terrible idea in any shooter ever.

Yeah, but how many times have you gotten killed by your own team mates because they threw in a random nade after you killed everyone? Did you read the rest of that paragraph that you quoted from? I literally mean like a .5s burst, that you have to time for when the nades explode to survive.

Also, as a competitive player I personally think that there should be no sprint or AA’s, however I realize that most of the casual community would disagree, thats why I left it out of the post.

4

I want armor lock back too. It was very useful on tight maps like sword base, and would be on maps like abandoned in h4.

I still remember this one time playing on sword base I was in that small room top lift, I locked up and survived a nuclear explosion. Like 3-4 plasma grenades blew up right next to me, a couple frags and a grenade launcher shot, sword guy lunged and stabbed me and was immediately blow up in the chaos, and went I unlocked I was completely unscathed.

Just dusted myself off, picked up the sword and was on my way. It was awesome.

5

> I want armor lock back too. It was very useful on tight maps like sword base, and would be on maps like abandoned in h4.
>
> I still remember this one time playing on sword base I was in that small room top lift, I locked up and survived a nuclear explosion. Like 3-4 plasma grenades blew up right next to me, a couple frags and a grenade launcher shot, sword guy lunged and stabbed me and was immediately blow up in the chaos, and went I unlocked I was completely unscathed.
>
> Just dusted myself off, picked up the sword and was on my way. It was awesome.

I imagine it was pretty awesome, but I also imagine it was extremely frustrating for the other team. I think that the sword should be able to kill through armor lock, that armor lock is only effective against explosives. As well as it being a significantly shorter burst than what it was in reach.

I also think that the sword block should be brought back, as it made for an interesting meta game that allowed for a well timed block (although it might not work well without sprint), but that is for another thread.

6

No sprint and AA’s as map pickup.

7

> > > I personally have my own opinion on the topics, <mark>based on being a competitive player</mark>
> > >
> > > The last thing I want to mention is <mark>bringing back armor lock</mark>
> >
> > I’m sorry…WHAT?!
> >
> > Armor lock takes first place in my list of things in Halo I hate most for very good reasons. Press X for invincibility is simply a terrible idea in any shooter ever.
>
> Yeah, but how many times have you gotten killed by your own team mates because they threw in a random nade after you killed everyone? Did you read the rest of that paragraph that you quoted from? I literally mean like a .5s burst, that you have to time for when the nades explode to survive.
>
> Also, as a competitive player I personally think that there should be no sprint or AA’s, however I realize that most of the casual community would disagree, thats why I left it out of the post.

Yes, I have also had dumb teammates run up to guys right after I threw a sticky on them. That does not justify the existence of Armor Lock. You get to be invulnerable from almost everything, and before it was nerfed you were invulnerable from everything. Armor Lock was a horrible substitute for the Overshield powerup, and nothing can justify the ability to press a button and survive a situation that, you by all rights, should’ve died from.

8

No sprint and no AAs, return AAs back to being equipment, same abilities, just now they’re pickups.

343i probably won’t drop AAs from classes but I can dream!

9

> > > > I personally have my own opinion on the topics, <mark>based on being a competitive player</mark>
> > > >
> > > > The last thing I want to mention is <mark>bringing back armor lock</mark>
> > >
> > > I’m sorry…WHAT?!
> > >
> > > Armor lock takes first place in my list of things in Halo I hate most for very good reasons. Press X for invincibility is simply a terrible idea in any shooter ever.
> >
> > Yeah, but how many times have you gotten killed by your own team mates because they threw in a random nade after you killed everyone? Did you read the rest of that paragraph that you quoted from? I literally mean like a .5s burst, that you have to time for when the nades explode to survive.
> >
> > Also, as a competitive player I personally think that there should be no sprint or AA’s, however I realize that most of the casual community would disagree, thats why I left it out of the post.
>
> Yes, I have also had dumb teammates run up to guys right after I threw a sticky on them. That does not justify the existence of Armor Lock. You get to be invulnerable from almost everything, and before it was nerfed you were invulnerable from everything. Armor Lock was a horrible substitute for the Overshield powerup, and nothing can justify the ability to press a button and survive a situation that, you by all rights, should’ve died from.

What if it was just explosives only and for half a second? That people could still shoot through it, but you don’t take damage from nades? That way it eliminates the last stand pro from the noob who just pooped out a nade last second. Or it makes nade spammers somewhat less effective. I’m not saying having armor lock is the right choice, I’m just bringing it up as an option if it was limited in its capability.

10

I think the best way to go about things would be to remove Sprint and then put Armour Abilities on the map as pickup items, similarly to how Equipment worked in Halo 3. That way, we can still have our innovation that distinguishes Halo from other games, but players will still start out equal and gain the advantage through superior play, as Halo should be.

11

Only compromise I would agree to or care for with armor abilities is to have them function exactly as they do now but they’re map pick-ups. No single use stuff like equipment. Make them useable until you die, simple as that.

Sprint I’m indifferent to. While I see why people want it removed and I see no reason it would significantly impact the game either way.

12

There needs to be good selection of no-Sprint playlists in the game. Armor Abilities need to be map pickups; a lot of problems can be solved simply by removing them from loadouts (this goes for some weapons, too).

13

Sprint doesn’t bug me so much. I hear the reasoning about how it “ruins” the game and I just don’t agree. It feels much more natural to me. I would welcome some additional changes to it, because Halo 4’s iteration isn’t close to perfect.

As for AA’s, I like them as loadout choices, but they shouldn’t all be loaddout choices. Give us some as loadouts and some as equipment, and make sure each has its own unique and appropriate roles, for example: equipment improves defensive abilities (dropshield, regen, sentry, AL, AC, whatever) and AA’s improve map movement (TP, JP, teleporter, who knows what). Just examples. I believe they can co-exist, but we can’t just assume we’re re-using the old versions.

14

I say no sprint with AAs as map pickups. If (and I PRAY this doesn’t happen) AAs continue as loadout options, I would like to see the shield recharge thing where you use your shield energy to use your AAs. I think that sprint should count as an AA too. That way sprinting wouldn’t be as much of a get away button. It would still probably cause there to be much bigger and have crappy lines of sight though. That would still be pretty bad.

15

> > > I personally have my own opinion on the topics, based on being a competitive player
> > >
> > > The last thing I want to mention is bringing back armor lock
> >
> > I’m sorry…WHAT?!
> >
> > Armor lock takes first place in my list of things in Halo I hate most for very good reasons. Press X for invincibility is simply a terrible idea in any shooter ever.
>
> <mark>Yeah, but how many times have you gotten killed by your own team mates because they threw in a random nade after you killed everyone? Did you read the rest of that paragraph that you quoted from? I literally mean like a .5s burst, that you have to time for when the nades explode to survive.</mark>
>
> Also, as a competitive player I personally think that there should be no sprint or AA’s, however I realize that most of the casual community would disagree, thats why I left it out of the post.

So we keep an ability that, like you said being a competitive player, makes competitiveness take a flush down the drain?

16

Having AAs on map doesn’t make any sense. Even in a game with all skilled players, the average life is probably only about 30-45 seconds. If a player makes a bee line towards the nearest on-map AA, it would still take them at least 10 seconds to get there. So now, we’re talking about 20-35 seconds to use that AA until they die and everyone has to wait for it to respawn. How many times can the player use the AA during that time? Twice? Three times? This is the same reason why in AGL/Team Throwdown settings, players almost never call down their AA PODs: they would only get to use them once or twice.

AAs are close to OP when given to all players at all times (in loadouts), but they are very, very UP when limited to one life every one to two minutes. Equipment, on the other hand, was a lot more useful to make up for the fact that it was one-time use only. If AAs are to become map pickups, they need to be much more powerful and useful so players will want to pick it up. The problem though is that AAs have infinite uses. So how much power do you give something that could be used anywhere from once to infinitely? How do you balance every AA to make sure that they are worth picking up even if only to be used once or twice, but not game-breakingly overpowered if used more?

AAs are inherently broken because they have infinite uses. Nothing found on the map should be usable infinitely. This is why I’ve said that the best fix to the AA problem is just to remove them and replace them with Equipment.

17

> > > I personally have my own opinion on the topics, <mark>based on being a competitive player</mark>
> > >
> > > The last thing I want to mention is <mark>bringing back armor lock</mark>
> >
> > I’m sorry…WHAT?!
> >
> > Armor lock takes first place in my list of things in Halo I hate most for very good reasons. Press X for invincibility is simply a terrible idea in any shooter ever.
>
> Yeah, but how many times have you gotten killed by your own team mates because they threw in a random nade after you killed everyone?

Almost never? I don’t put myself in positions where my teammates are throwing grenades and the people I play with are competent enough to know better than to nade their teammates.

18

> I want armor lock back too. It was very useful on tight maps like sword base, and would be on maps like abandoned in h4.
>
> I still remember this one time playing on sword base I was in that small room top lift, I locked up and survived a nuclear explosion. Like 3-4 plasma grenades blew up right next to me, a couple frags and a grenade launcher shot, sword guy lunged and stabbed me and was immediately blow up in the chaos, and went I unlocked I was completely unscathed.
>
> Just dusted myself off, picked up the sword and was on my way. It was awesome.

I get the feeling that you blanket support all of the Halo “get out of jail free” card - type game mechanics & features. You argue incessantly on another thread to keep sprint and other gaming attributes for the sake of ‘realism’ among many other factors, despite the fact that most people with any visceral knowledge of the game really understand how much of a crutch the sprint mechanic is for poor players.

Armor lock works much the same way. Out-run your team’s line? Armor lock. Get totally out-played in an objective game type and stare down power weapons? Armor lock. Run right into your teammates’ field of fire / grenade targeting? Armor lock. So on, and so on.

One thing Halo 4 got 100% right was NOT including armor lock.

19

> > > > I personally have my own opinion on the topics, based on being a competitive player
> > > >
> > > > The last thing I want to mention is bringing back armor lock
> > >
> > > I’m sorry…WHAT?!
> > >
> > > Armor lock takes first place in my list of things in Halo I hate most for very good reasons. Press X for invincibility is simply a terrible idea in any shooter ever.
> >
> > <mark>Yeah, but how many times have you gotten killed by your own team mates because they threw in a random nade after you killed everyone? Did you read the rest of that paragraph that you quoted from? I literally mean like a .5s burst, that you have to time for when the nades explode to survive.</mark>
> >
> > Also, as a competitive player I personally think that there should be no sprint or AA’s, however I realize that most of the casual community would disagree, thats why I left it out of the post.
>
> So we keep an ability that, like you said being a competitive player, makes competitiveness take a flush down the drain?

For this thread I am just trying to talk about stuff for the casual playlists, cause naturally in the more competitive playlists there is significantly less nade spamming and last stand nades. I honestly don’t think it would take away that much if it was a super short burst, guaranteed it would take away less from the gameplay than what the jet pack does in its current state. Basically, I see it being used as a way to remove the random factor from noobs pulling the left trigger all the time.

20

> Having AAs on map doesn’t make any sense. Even in a game with all skilled players, the average life is probably only about 30-45 seconds. If a player makes a bee line towards the nearest on-map AA, it would still take them at least 10 seconds to get there. So now, we’re talking about 20-35 seconds to use that AA until they die and everyone has to wait for it to respawn. How many times can the player use the AA during that time? Twice? Three times? This is the same reason why in AGL/Team Throwdown settings, players almost never call down their AA PODs: they would only get to use them once or twice.
>
> AAs are close to OP when given to all players at all times (in loadouts), but they are very, very UP when limited to one life every one to two minutes. Equipment, on the other hand, was a lot more useful to make up for the fact that it was one-time use only. If AAs are to become map pickups, they need to be much more powerful and useful so players will want to pick it up. The problem though is that AAs have infinite uses. So how much power do you give something that could be used anywhere from once to infinitely? How do you balance every AA to make sure that they are worth picking up even if only to be used once or twice, but not game-breakingly overpowered if used more?
>
> AAs are inherently broken because they have infinite uses. Nothing found on the map should be usable infinitely. This is why I’ve said that the best fix to the AA problem is just to remove them and replace them with Equipment.

I have to say I disagree to a certain extent. You brought up a good point that they might not be valuable enough to pick up, but what do most of the AA’s currently do? They currently extend your life by some mechanic, and it sounds like you are a bit of a competitive player, so you should know how valuable it is to stay alive. Which in that regard I would say it would be just as powerful as a power weapon. (Like when Pistola used the jetpack to stay alive on sanctuary, or how evade was used as a power weapon in early mlg settings)

What I really disagree with is your reasoning behind why AAs are broken. Even if I use thruster pack only once in my life, but I gain an unfair advantage in doing so, it still means it is broken. What I was trying to suggest in the OP is that if we gave everyone the same AA to begin with, nobody would have an unfair advantage based on the AA they chose. It would then become a matter of how well/how smart you used your AA, creating a new metagame based on how skillfully you could use your AA. Personally I would favor thruster as it has the most potential without breaking maps or ruining game play.

Best example I can give of what I mean by having the most potential is at 1:30 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la4gJp8n9Ds