A Compromise for Spartan Abilities

Community General Discussion
#1

So I’m going to get this out there now. I like Spartan abilities and I want them to stay in that next Halo. There are some I can live without like slide and clamber but for the most part I want them to stay.

Now you might be think how can I, someone who wants Spartan abilities to stay, be able to come up with a compromise? Simple. My idea doesn’t completely remove them. So let’s get into it.

Let’s begin with the normal MP player settings. First of Base movement speed should be about 140% of what it is now but if that to much 125 would be fine. Thrusters would still be a usable ability. Id ask that it’s cool down be sped up but if it acts the same as Halo 5 that would be fine. Other than those two the Gameplay would be relatively the same as Halo 2 and 3.

Now for the real Meat of this idea. Spartan Abilities would become Power ups like overshield and camo. With this some maps having one type and other maps having another depending on what works with the map and some might have neither. The Types would consist of Speed and Airborne.

Speed would consist of Sprint, Slide, and Spartan Charge with a white glow on the users armor. While Speed boost would still be a power up in the game, this would act differently and work on different maps. Sprint would nolong stop shield recharge, and it would be about 150% the speed of normal movement. Spartan Charge would be a one hit kill but it would have 0 target magnitizem as well as 0 splash damage. Slide would be about the same as it is in halo 5.

Airborne consist of a Double jump, Stabilizers, and Ground Pound with a yellow glow on the users armor. The Double jump would overall be 150% the normal Jump height, maybe higher, as the first jump would be 75% high and the second would be the last 75%. Stabilizers will be much stronger than they were in Halo 5 as the user won’t be slowly falling and would be activated/deactivated by pressing the Sprint button in the air. The Stabilizer’s movement would be half the speed or normal ground movement and it would last up to 10 seconds. Ground pound would be about the same as it is in Halo 5.

These Power up would last about 45 seconds same as the active camo in Halo 5.

Another thing thing that could come out of this is would be customizable trait based power ups for custom games.

In addition to these Armor abilities would also come back but would act more like equipment in Halo 3. They would be placed around the map and would only be usable once but you would hold on to them till you died or used them. The AA could consist of a multitude of AAs and equipment that we have already seen in other Halo’s. To list a few.
Bubble Shield
Reginorator
Power drain
Gravity Lift
Flare
Trip mine
Auto turret
Hologram
Deployable cover
Hardlight shield
Ect.

To deploy these you would press both thumb sticks at the same time or both RB and LB.

Now to the part that I will have the most fun with. Warzone. As we already know Warzone is a Cluster Blam of overpowered weapon, vehicles, and power ups. So, as default both airborne and Speed will be active on every Spartan and they won’t be disabled after 45 seconds. In addition AAs will be put in the the loadout section at the req station. They would no long have the one time usage they do in normal MP. They would have cool downs of varying length depending on the AA and have different req levels just like Loadout weapons and armor mods.

Campaign would also have both Airborne and speed active. Although it would be cool if at the beginning you lost these abilities and only regained them later on. Maybe 3-5 missions later. As we see in The Halo on Xbox One E3 2013 trailer Chief’s armor is damaged. Maybe in the first mission Both him and Blue team or whomever he’s with get attack, separated and his suit gets damaged to the point that only the shielding and normal thrusters work. Or maybe just shielding and he gets normal thruster as the first ability he requires. Very Metroid esk. This would also allow you learn how to use them at a slower pace in the campaign instead of just dumping them all on you at the start.

So what do you guys/gals think? Good idea, Bad Idea, do you think i should just suck it up and understand that Spartan Abilities and Armor abilities should never be in Halo again and every halo should just be a Halo 2/3 clone? Tell me what you think.

#2

Base movement speed at 140% is too fast in my eyes. 110%… or 120% at most.
The idea to place abilties on map is…interesting I will admit. I wouldn’t have six of them - I’d go with thrusters, stabilizer and…ugh…not sure. I dont like slide, GP or charge, and sprint can go. Double jump? Why would you make the first jump lower than a standard jump? I could compromise with you and add Ground Pound as an on map ability. I’d remove its insane splash damage…or lower it. Stabilizers don’t need to last any longer than they do - they make it too easy to peak over obstacles. Not supposed to make it that easy.

Pressing both thumbsticks sounds incredibly clunky. Much smoother to press buttons instead. Have a use button like ‘x’, the bumpers…maybe ‘b’. Adding the abilities brings back the challenge of finding the right controls and condensing mechanics onto more than one button or button combo. That’s hard enough as it is.

I don’t like your idea for the abilities in Warzone. Letting them be a cool down would cause spamming when refilled. Having them be one time uses and pick up would be a better balance. They don’t need multiple levels or REQs. One kind, like Halo 3 has, is all that we need. Having multiples would be pointless and cause Warzone to be more bloated if it returns in Halo 6.

I dont know how your campaign idea for these would work. It’s extremely similar to how Destiny 2 did it. And we know how Destiny 2 players felt about that. Also, Im quite tired typing this. I might return later.

#3

I wouldn’t miss Spartan abilities (ground thrusters, etc. I don’t love or hate them but they should bring armor mods back. Halo Reach and 4 had it right. God I miss my camo…

#4

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> I wouldn’t miss Spartan abilities (ground thrusters, etc. I don’t love or hate them but they should bring armor mods back. Halo Reach and 4 had it right. God I miss my camo…

Halo Reach did not have them right. Reach’s abilities screwed up what could have been a great game. Armor lock…don’t even get me started (its only fun against ghosts and in custom games), overpowered jetpack, terrible active camo, clunky sprinting. The best one was roll.

#5

This is a terrible idea.

#6

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>

You will have to contribute more than that. If you don’t like OP’s idea, at least give them the courtesy of explaining your dislike.

#7

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> > 2533274975565198;3:
> > I wouldn’t miss Spartan abilities (ground thrusters, etc. I don’t love or hate them but they should bring armor mods back. Halo Reach and 4 had it right. God I miss my camo…
>
> Halo Reach did not have them right. Reach’s abilities screwed up what could have been a great game. Armor lock…don’t even get me started (its only fun against ghosts and in custom games), overpowered jetpack, terrible active camo, clunky sprinting. The best one was roll.

I’ll admit the active camo was bad and armor lock shouldn’t exist. Beyond that I still love armor mods it gave a nice twist to gameplay. I’m not a fan of the super sweaty atmosphere the no armor abilities brought in with the MLG crowd. No one plays for fun anymore it’s just about that K/D now

#8

> 2533274975565198;7:
> > 2533274805386380;4:
> > > 2533274975565198;3:
> > > I wouldn’t miss Spartan abilities (ground thrusters, etc. I don’t love or hate them but they should bring armor mods back. Halo Reach and 4 had it right. God I miss my camo…
> >
> > Halo Reach did not have them right. Reach’s abilities screwed up what could have been a great game. Armor lock…don’t even get me started (its only fun against ghosts and in custom games), overpowered jetpack, terrible active camo, clunky sprinting. The best one was roll.
>
> I’ll admit the active camo was bad and armor lock shouldn’t exist. Beyond that I still love armor mods it gave a nice twist to gameplay. I’m not a fan of the super sweaty atmosphere the no armor abilities brought in with the MLG crowd. No one plays for fun anymore it’s just about that K/D now

I dont understand…you’re not a fan of super sweaty atmosphere with no armor abilities…and that’s what the first three Halo games were about. They were hugely successful with the MLG crowd.

#9

I don’t think they make sense as pick-ups. I think make it base movement 110 - 120%, keep thruster, clamber and stabilizer (maybe). spartan charge and sprint can go as thrust I think is much better in the area as it allows for the quick boost and the ability to quickly change direction.

And then there’s slide and ground pound… they’re just happy to be here while it lasts.

#10

Keep thrusters and ground pound,increase base movement speed so you can rid of sprint and slide,and make the rest pick ups like equipment

#11

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#12

Honestly I’m more for integrated abilities like we have now so while the advantage is present, everyone can use it. I would suggest the only pickups we would get would be things that aren’t critical but help out. This shouldn’t be Reach all over again and the Halo sandbox is too big as it is. Compressing the abilities into the armors makes sense because we have the D-pad which in multiplayer goes unused.

  • VISR (highlights enemies) - Jetpack (advanced thrusters because we know these things have some push) *please note that evade should remain on the B button, not a pickup. - A special for a pickup (Active camo, Hardlight Shield, bubble/drop shield, sentry, Decoy) - And then finally squad commands so you highlight a player or ally and then hit the button again to suggest a weapon pick up or objective. Command could also give rally points.Thus you aren’t cluttering the map or interface because you’ve mapped it to the D-pad.
#13

> 2533274805386380;2:
> Base movement speed at 140% is too fast in my eyes. 110%… or 120% at most.
> The idea to place abilties on map is…interesting I will admit. I wouldn’t have six of them - I’d go with thrusters, stabilizer and…ugh…not sure. I dont like slide, GP or charge, and sprint can go. Double jump? Why would you make the first jump lower than a standard jump? I could compromise with you and add Ground Pound as an on map ability. I’d remove its insane splash damage…or lower it. Stabilizers don’t need to last any longer than they do - they make it too easy to peak over obstacles. Not supposed to make it that easy.

Then 125% movement speed like i said. I don’t see how 6 is too many. Especially when all of them besides speed and speed boost are completely different. Plus with in halo 5 we have, what?, over 100 weapons and vehicles? 6 is pretty low in comparison. You understand that power up need to be viable for people to pick them up right? They need to give you a distinct advantage. The way i made them wouldn’t make them overpowered either, especially if there is only one on any given map. Fine, the first jump is 100% and the second is 50 or 75. Ground Pound would need to be the same as it is or no one would pick it up. You are already very disadvantaged if you miss with it. Removing the splash damage would make using it to much of a risk for anyone. I think stabilizers would have to be stronger if they were to become a power up and not just an ability everyone has.

> Pressing both thumbsticks sounds incredibly clunky. Much smoother to press buttons instead. Have a use button like ‘x’, the bumpers…maybe ‘b’. Adding the abilities brings back the challenge of finding the right controls and condensing mechanics onto more than one button or button combo. That’s hard enough as it is.

Both bumpers should be fine then.

> I don’t like your idea for the abilities in Warzone. Letting them be a cool down would cause spamming when refilled. Having them be one time uses and pick up would be a better balance. They don’t need multiple levels or REQs. One kind, like Halo 3 has, is all that we need. Having multiples would be pointless and cause Warzone to be more bloated if it returns in Halo 6.

You understand that very few people stay alive for very long in warzone right? If you just made them on time usage while keeping them in the loadout section, people would just be running back and forth between the battle and a req station to reacquire them. That sounds a little to monotonous and would probably end up taking less time than most cool downs. They do need multiple req levels for different AAs. There will be AAs that are just more powerful than others that you don’t want everyone having at the start. Just like the loadout weapons and armor mods in Halo 5s warzone.

> I dont know how your campaign idea for these would work. It’s extremely similar to how Destiny 2 did it. And we know how Destiny 2 players felt about that. Also, Im quite tired typing this. I might return later.

I never played Destiny 2 but the idea is that the first few level would just play like halo 2 and 3. Then you would reacquire the other abilities later on. I was under the assumption that player who enjoy old school halo gameplay would enjoy this.

#14

> 2533274825160595;13:
> > 2533274805386380;2:
> > Base movement speed at 140% is too fast in my eyes. 110%… or 120% at most.
> > The idea to place abilties on map is…interesting I will admit. I wouldn’t have six of them - I’d go with thrusters, stabilizer and…ugh…not sure. I dont like slide, GP or charge, and sprint can go. Double jump? Why would you make the first jump lower than a standard jump? I could compromise with you and add Ground Pound as an on map ability. I’d remove its insane splash damage…or lower it. Stabilizers don’t need to last any longer than they do - they make it too easy to peak over obstacles. Not supposed to make it that easy.
>
> Then 125% movement speed like i said. I don’t see how 6 is too many. Especially when all of them besides speed and speed boost are completely different. Plus with in halo 5 we have, what?, over 100 weapons and vehicles? 6 is pretty low in comparison. You understand that power up need to be viable for people to pick them up right? They need to give you a distinct advantage. The way i made them wouldn’t make them overpowered either, especially if there is only one on any given map. Fine, the first jump is 100% and the second is 50 or 75. Ground Pound would need to be the same as it is or no one would pick it up. You are already very disadvantaged if you miss with it. Removing the splash damage would make using it to much of a risk for anyone. I think stabilizers would have to be stronger if they were to become a power up and not just an ability everyone has.
>
>
>
>
> > Pressing both thumbsticks sounds incredibly clunky. Much smoother to press buttons instead. Have a use button like ‘x’, the bumpers…maybe ‘b’. Adding the abilities brings back the challenge of finding the right controls and condensing mechanics onto more than one button or button combo. That’s hard enough as it is.
>
> Both bumpers should be fine then.
>
>
>
>
> > I don’t like your idea for the abilities in Warzone. Letting them be a cool down would cause spamming when refilled. Having them be one time uses and pick up would be a better balance. They don’t need multiple levels or REQs. One kind, like Halo 3 has, is all that we need. Having multiples would be pointless and cause Warzone to be more bloated if it returns in Halo 6.
>
> You understand that very few people stay alive for very long in warzone right? If you just made them on time usage while keeping them in the loadout section, people would just be running back and forth between the battle and a req station to reacquire them. That sounds a little to monotonous and would probably end up taking less time than most cool downs. They do need multiple req levels for different AAs. There will be AAs that are just more powerful than others that you don’t want everyone having at the start. Just like the loadout weapons and armor mods in Halo 5s warzone.
>
>
>
>
> > I dont know how your campaign idea for these would work. It’s extremely similar to how Destiny 2 did it. And we know how Destiny 2 players felt about that. Also, Im quite tired typing this. I might return later.
>
> I never played Destiny 2 but the idea is that the first few level would just play like halo 2 and 3. Then you would reacquire the other abilities later on. I was under the assumption that player who enjoy old school halo gameplay would enjoy this.

100’s of weapons and vehicle variants isn’t the same thing as abilities.
I still don’t see how six abilities is a good thing when it makes the game still feel like Halo 5. At least removing sprint and charge makes Halo 6 already a more skill based game.
Stabilizers are still just a way for someone to get an easy extra feet of sight. It doesn’t add any depth that the gameplay benefits from. It makes it easy for someone to shoot when in the air, when it shouldn’t be. Remember that we want 343 to make Halo 6 be both fun to play and have a level of depth/skill ceiling.
WZ players already run around to REQ stations and spend time picking their next loadout if they haven’t already picked one up from a dead opponent. Including equipment is logical in that case. There’s too many REQ weapons as well. Adding extra equipment variations, as I said, further bloats the game if WZ returns in H6.

#15

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#16

The weapon variants is primarily what is building up the sandbox, and should a system like the variations be kept then the amount of pickups should be greatly reduced. Variants are fine and should be encouraged to shake up warzone, but it doesn’t really benefit to have numerous armor abilities or spartan abilities either to have multiple variants. Things need to be kept simple for the sake of tactical usage.

I guess the solution to the Jetpack might be to have it as a pickup but I mean more for a toggle to utilize if it was integrated. Thinking about it more the pack could be a pickup but I also like the idea of the thrusters pushing up should the camera be facing up, not necessarily flying but a good push to reach a ledge.

#17

I would love to see a return to simplicity. Remove most of these abilities and have them appear on the map as equipment (a la Halo 3). Maybe I’m too old fashioned and long for maps and games to focus on teamwork and map-control over all the bells and whistles.

That said, increasing base movement speed is fine…games have evolved and faster movement I think that can be beneficial. Just keep armor lock out of the game…that thing was just a travesty and ground gameplay to a halt.

#18

> 2533274805386380;14:
> 100’s of weapons and vehicle variants isn’t the same thing as abilities.

Ok, so how does having 6 abilities that are all relegated to power ups bloat the game?

> I still don’t see how six abilities is a good thing when it makes the game still feel like Halo 5. At least removing sprint and charge makes Halo 6 already a more skill based game.

They are power ups. Assume there are even on the given map in question, one person would have half of these abilities and only for 45 seconds… it would be more skill based as players would not have these abilities. Each map would be tailored to a more classic gameplay style. The power ups im talking about wouldn’t even be on small maps like guardian or lockout, they would be on medium to large maps like Narrows or Valhalla. A map like narrows would most likely have Airborne as a large amount of its area is a death fall. The ability to hover and move at a fairly good speed for 10 seconds would be a advantage while not making you overpowered. People would still be able to shoot at you from many areas of the map.

> Stabilizers are still just a way for someone to get an easy extra feet of sight. It doesn’t add any depth that the gameplay benefits from. It makes it easy for someone to shoot when in the air, when it shouldn’t be. Remember that we want 343 to make Halo 6 be both fun to play and have a level of depth/skill ceiling.

It wouldn’t if it’s more of a hover and put on maps more tailored to it. Many maps in halo 5 are very vertical allowing for such benefits. But if maps aren’t made with the idea that everyone has these abilities that won’t happen. Instead you will get maps like Narrows that work with Airborne but don’t allow for such exploits on it.

> WZ players already run around to REQ stations and spend time picking their next loadout if they haven’t already picked one up from a dead opponent. Including equipment is logical in that case. There’s too many REQ weapons as well. Adding extra equipment variations, as I said, further bloats the game if WZ returns in H6

They run back to Req stations after they run out of ammo mostly. There isn’t a single weapon in warzone that runs out of ammo after being fired once. This will also only allow more spamming of the abilities in question. Lets say for instance power drain is an ability. You want to know how someone would use it if its a one time use? When people start attacking their base they will throw it out, run back to the req station(no more that a second away if that) grab another then throw it, grab another then throw it, grab another then throw it ect. It only takes a second to switch weapons in the req screen it wont take much long to grab this ability again and again. This would make attacking bases impossible in warzone as people who are very close to the req station can just spam these abilities. You want to know a way that wouldnt happen? If the power drain had at least a 30 second cool down. I know 30 seconds isnt long enough be even that would be much much better than your suggestion. I dont see the problem with warzone being bloated. Im pretty sure thats at least one of it’s appealing factors. Its supposed to be bloated its a massive W****arzone where almost anything can and will happen. If you don’t enjoy the bloated nature of Warzone then you play BTB.

> 2533274861593686;16:
> The weapon variants is primarily what is building up the sandbox, and should a system like the variations be kept then the amount of pickups should be greatly reduced. Variants are fine and should be encouraged to shake up warzone, but it doesn’t really benefit to have numerous armor abilities or spartan abilities either to have multiple variants. Things need to be kept simple for the sake of tactical usage.
>
> I guess the solution to the Jetpack might be to have it as a pickup but I mean more for a toggle to utilize if it was integrated. Thinking about it more the pack could be a pickup but I also like the idea of the thrusters pushing up should the camera be facing up, not necessarily flying but a good push to reach a ledge.

I think people might be mistaking what I’m asking for I don’t want multiple variants of the same power up or AA What i was saying is that different AAs would require different req levels before you can use them. Just Like how you need to be req level 6 before you can use a DMR but you only need to be level 1 for an AR. Something like Deployable cover might be level 3 or 4 and Auto turret might be 6 or 7.

#19

[deleted]

#20

> 2533274825160595;18:
> > 2533274805386380;14:
> > 100’s of weapons and vehicle variants isn’t the same thing as abilities.
>
> Ok, so how does having 6 abilities that are all relegated to power ups bloat the game?
>
>
> > I still don’t see how six abilities is a good thing when it makes the game still feel like Halo 5. At least removing sprint and charge makes Halo 6 already a more skill based game.
>
> They are power ups. Assume there are even on the given map in question, one person would have half of these abilities and only for 45 seconds… it would be more skill based as players would not have these abilities. Each map would be tailored to a more classic gameplay style. The power ups im talking about wouldn’t even be on small maps like guardian or lockout, they would be on medium to large maps like Narrows or Valhalla. A map like narrows would most likely have Airborne as a large amount of its area is a death fall. The ability to hover and move at a fairly good speed for 10 seconds would be a advantage while not making you overpowered. People would still be able to shoot at you from many areas of the map.
>
>
>
>
> > Stabilizers are still just a way for someone to get an easy extra feet of sight. It doesn’t add any depth that the gameplay benefits from. It makes it easy for someone to shoot when in the air, when it shouldn’t be. Remember that we want 343 to make Halo 6 be both fun to play and have a level of depth/skill ceiling.
>
> It wouldn’t if it’s more of a hover and put on maps more tailored to it. Many maps in halo 5 are very vertical allowing for such benefits. But if maps aren’t made with the idea that everyone has these abilities that won’t happen. Instead you will get maps like Narrows that work with Airborne but don’t allow for such exploits on it.
>
>
>
>
> > WZ players already run around to REQ stations and spend time picking their next loadout if they haven’t already picked one up from a dead opponent. Including equipment is logical in that case. There’s too many REQ weapons as well. Adding extra equipment variations, as I said, further bloats the game if WZ returns in H6
>
> They run back to Req stations after they run out of ammo mostly. There isn’t a single weapon in warzone that runs out of ammo after being fired once. This will also only allow more spamming of the abilities in question. Lets say for instance power drain is an ability. You want to know how someone would use it if its a one time use? When people start attacking their base they will throw it out, run back to the req station(no more that a second away if that) grab another then throw it, grab another then throw it, grab another then throw it ect. It only takes a second to switch weapons in the req screen it wont take much long to grab this ability again and again. This would make attacking bases impossible in warzone as people who are very close to the req station can just spam these abilities. You want to know a way that wouldnt happen? If the power drain had at least a 30 second cool down. I know 30 seconds isnt long enough be even that would be much much better than your suggestion. I dont see the problem with warzone being bloated. Im pretty sure thats at least one of it’s appealing factors. Its supposed to be bloated its a massive W****arzone where almost anything can and will happen. If you don’t enjoy the bloated nature of Warzone then you play BTB.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274861593686;16:
> > The weapon variants is primarily what is building up the sandbox, and should a system like the variations be kept then the amount of pickups should be greatly reduced. Variants are fine and should be encouraged to shake up warzone, but it doesn’t really benefit to have numerous armor abilities or spartan abilities either to have multiple variants. Things need to be kept simple for the sake of tactical usage.
> >
> > I guess the solution to the Jetpack might be to have it as a pickup but I mean more for a toggle to utilize if it was integrated. Thinking about it more the pack could be a pickup but I also like the idea of the thrusters pushing up should the camera be facing up, not necessarily flying but a good push to reach a ledge.
>
> I think people might be mistaking what I’m asking for I don’t want multiple variants of the same power up or AA What i was saying is that different AAs would require different req levels before you can use them. Just Like how you need to be req level 6 before you can use a DMR but you only need to be level 1 for an AR. Something like Deployable cover might be level 3 or 4 and Auto turret might be 6 or 7.

You said it yourself: six abilities. Since these aid in map and player movement, that’s an awful lot. Halo 6 doesn’t need that many. It’s making gameplay choppy, even if they work a lot smoother in Halo 5 and both Reach and 4. You stop to do an ability, you go, then you stop when you want to use another. Reducing abilities to about three lets the game and map flow more consistently, letting players focus more on engagements than how to traverse the map. Not that map traversal is bad; its essential to Halo’s gameplay and to any FPS. Individual gameplay with the use of extra on map abilities as a short lived advantage is how Halo 6 should work, not maps built around abilities that increase player traversal. There’s a lot of stop and go gameplay in Halo 5 due to the amount of abilities and when to use them. Yes I do think it plays much better and smoother than Reach and 4, as I said, but still not as great as it needed to be.
Expanding the core gameplay mechanics into something that both old and new fans love, while making sure we aren’t playing a ten+ year old game with modern graphics and sounds, is a careful undertaking that 343 hasn’t nailed yet. Bungie practically perfected those before undermining themselves with Reach.

Having them as power ups is a better idea…if they’re aren’t so many.

The issue with bloating in Warzone is a lot of the weapons aren’t used much, if at all, and can be merged with others. We have way to many sniper variants that can be merged to clean up the options, for example. Of course not all the weapons are like that. I’d keep a fair number of what we already have, if I were a multiplayer or sandbox designer. Now unless I just can’t see it, I think cleaning up the weapon sandbox for WZ would be nice. Perhaps if I played it with the weapons I wanted removed out and I noticed that I didn’t like it after all, then I’d be more open to other options.

By the way, don’t take me as trying to almost constantly knock your ideas down; you’re passionate about this and have a few good ideas. I happen to not see others work as well as you think they would. We’re not professional game designers haha. At least not yet. Eventually I’ll be working in the industry as a writer… to start with.