A Collection of Thoughts (Rank, Sprint, Loadouts, and More)

Good afternoon waypoint. I have had some thoughts rumbling around in my head for a new thread these past few days. However, I decided to hold off to spend time with my family. Now that my break is over I have decided to take the time and deeply go in to some of my personal thoughts and opinions on this new Halo 4 info we have received. You may not agree with everything I have to say, you may love it, but regardless if our opinions are conflicting or not I hope you enjoy the thread.

First a background. I am a competitive player. I created the “Letter from the Competitive Community” Which has been thanked almost 350 times and still reappears every now and then.

That thread was made pre-Halo 4 GI coverage. And if you go back and read it, you will find that many of the things listed in that thread were not acknowledged.

While many people will read the GI article and write off Halo as a “Cod clone” or " sellout". I instantly begin thinking of ways to make it work and morph it in to something that everyone can be happy. So when I heard Sprint was going to be a default feature, instead of whining and complain i began to isolate the problems sprint presents to the halo formula, and think of ways to fix it. Now remember, you may not agree with everything.

The benefits of sprint are it allows you to get places faster, it increases the length of your jump, and in Halo 4’s case it is now a default feature.

The problem with Sprint when it comes to Halo include running away from a fight, sprint/melee combo, enter/exit delays.

if sprint is going to be a part of Halo then it needs to play by Halo’s rules. Kill times in Halo are longer than most games, which makes sprint much more impactful. In Cod if you get shott at you can not sprint away because the kill times are slow and you will already be dead. In Halo, a player can be shooting at one player, and the other player can simply sprint away and avoid danger. This needs to be addressed somewhat.

Solution: 343 already made it so everyone has sprint which is the way it needs to be. That way a sprinter will not have the ability to outpace someone using a different armor ability. But its not quite enough. One of my least favorite things about sprint is the delay between activation and exit. When you exit sprint your Spartan has to stop and pull out his gun and shoot. I would suggest shortening the time it takes between exiting sprint and firing a weapon. This would make pursuing players less annoying because you will be able to put shots on target as soon as you see them. Sprint needs to do its job of getting from point A to point B faster, without disrupting the players ability to put shots on target. ( Note: This isn’t a call to remove the delay, just make it as short as spartanly possible)

My biggest issue with sprint however, is the disruption it causes to the melee system. Hopefully bleedthrough will return, but even still running up to someone and 2 punching them is very annoying. It may be something we have to live with, but making bleedthrough the melee system for halo 4 would make things a lot less annoying.

Also a sure to be controversial idea I had is to change the sword. Sprint + Sword Lunge is one of my most hated combos in Reach, and I think the only way to stop this is to actually change the way the sword functions. The Sword has always been about getting close, filling your reticle red, and lunging for the kill. This idea I have is completely opinionated and I’m not saying its the right thing to do, but here it goes.

Because Sprint is a default feature, what if the lunge feature was just dropped from the sword completely? Then it is expected of players to sprint with the sword and rush players. It can remain a one hit kill, and the swing rate can be increased, but it will now act more like a true melee weapon where you have to be close to use it. That way it would at least give opposing players a chance to back up and shoot without getting commando lunged. It has some flaws, but discuss them

< continue to next post>

Next topic is ranked vs infinity multiplayer. I see many people calling for a separation of the multiplayer offering with half being competitive ranked and half being 343’s infinity multiplayer. They wan’t a separate ranking system and gameplay options for the two sides. Some love this idea, others fear it will split the fanbase.

Again i have come up with a possible solution to this problem. Instead of having a casual progression based ranking system and a separate 1-50 ranked system, I say combined the two ranks together visually. How you say? Well its by implementing a brand new ranking system to the Halo series that takes traits from both Halo 3 and just a hint from Reach’s arena.

First lets go over the 2 sets of playlists.

Progression playlists: These are playlists that take full advantage of 343i’s changes. These are the ones with loadouts, instant respawns, random weapon spawns, and noncosmetic customization.

I would say something like having

Team Slayer
Rumble Pit
Team Objective
BTB
MultiTeam etc.

Then there are the action sack playlists: playlists that wouldn’t necessarily work with the progression system, but not necessarily competitive either.

griffball
infection
Action Sack
etc.

Then there are the ranked playlists: These playlist follow the old Halo rules with even starts, set weapon spawns, normal respawns, cosmetic only armor, and armor abilities go from loadouts to pick ups on maps.

Team Slayer
Team Objective
Team Doubles
Lone Wolves
MLG
Team Classic

( Snipers, swat can be phased in later)

Now the Progression system will work however 343 wants it to work. The ranked system will work like this. Each playlist has its own separate 1-50 scale. I don’t have enough room to go through exactly how it will work but essentially depending what your highest level is, that is your competitive tier.

Here is how it works.

1-9: Grey
10-19: White
20-29: Iron
30-39: Bronze
40-44: Silver
45-49: Gold
50: Onyx

Depending on what level your rank is you will be in a certain division. If you are a level 31 your skill level is bronze. If your highest level is 45 your skill level is Gold. If you reach 50 your skill level is onyx.

Now the trick it to combined this with the progression system. I assume progression ranks will consist of the standard private, colonel, general ranks.

The fix is very simple. If your highest rank in the progression system is a colonel, and your highest skill is a 45. Then your overall rank is a Gold Colonel. Your symbol for your progression rank will be the color of your highest division. So the colonel badge will be in gold. If you are a level 20 then your colonel rank will be in the color of iron. It is a way of showing what both your progression and ranked rank is in the same symbol.

What competitive players love is not only the satisfaction of reaching a higher rank, but also showing players how good they are visually. You are proud of your number or tier. And to further expand on this, change the player menu to reflect accomplishments. In Reach it showed what challenges you had completed that day, how much armor you had, and your commendation progress.

in Halo 4 replace that with (example)

Highest Skill: 47
Average Skill Level : ( will combine all of your ranked levels in to one average)
W/L Ratio: 2.5/1 ( KDR should be unimportant to WLR, but KDR can be found elsewhere)
And then your service record.

If players click on your service record they can see a full rundown of your history including what weapons you use, every rank from each playlist. your KDR. and other progress you have made in both competitive playlists and progression playlists.

One more thing to note. If you are playing in a ranked playlist, it still awards you with spartan points and advances your progression rank. That way if a player doesn’t like the new progression modes, they won’t be stuck at a private forever. However, the things you buy with your spartan points can only be accessed through the progression playlists, so its recommended you play all types of the game.

I don’t have time to explain every detail completely but that is the gist of it.

This thread has gone on far enough and to end it I would like to simply adress the new loadouts.

I doubt 343 will use my ranking system and there is a chance we may be stuck with loadouts. I ask you all to please be open minded. Just because the game has loadouts does not mean the game isn’t balanced. I would assume the selection of weapons will all be balanced with one another and 343 will be as careful as possible as to not break the game. This is not impossible. Look at starcraft 2. You can choose from 3 vastly different races with their own playstyles, yet somehow that game has almost perfect balance. I realize that Starcraft and halo play completely differently. But if an RTS can be balanced and competitive with uneven starts then I believe so can an FPS like Halo, if done right.

If you’ve stuck with me thanks for reading, discuss, suggest, and be respectful.

Thank You,
Camps

I like all of your ideas, but I’m a little iffy on the sword not having lunge. Maybe 343 could half the sword’s range while sprinting.

> I like all of your ideas, but I’m a little iffy on the sword not having lunge. Maybe 343 could half the sword’s range while sprinting.

Another valid suggestion. Like I said removing sword lunge is just an idea. Maybe make it have slightly more auto lock than standard melee, but no lunge. Again just ideas.

Honestly I would be happy if Armor abilities were just done away with. Reach is not Halo-esque at all and if 4 is sharing any similarities with Reach, it won’t be either.

I’m not saying or flaming anybody, just giving my opinion that Armor Abilities be done away with, and we return to Pick-ups like what 1, 2, and 3 did.

Also I would like to see Fewer playlists in 4, there are too many in reach IMO. The trueskill system works best with higher population.

For some reason I just know I am wasting my time and nobody at 343 will ever read this and honestly doesn’t care what an og halo fan like me thinks. Should just talk to my wall instead, atleast it doesn’t piss me off by ignoring me.

> Honestly I would be happy if Armor abilities were just done away with. Reach is not Halo-esque at all and if 4 is sharing any similarities with Reach, it won’t be either.
>
> I’m not saying or flaming anybody, just giving my opinion that Armor Abilities be done away with, and we return to Pick-ups like what 1, 2, and 3 did.
>
> Also I would like to see Fewer playlists in 4, there are too many in reach IMO. The trueskill system works best with higher population.
>
> For some reason I just know I am wasting my time and nobody at 343 will ever read this and honestly doesn’t care what an og halo fan like me thinks. Should just talk to my wall instead, atleast it doesn’t piss me off by ignoring me.

Unfortunately, I believe AA’s are here to stay for the long haul. It is not the way I would have built Halo 4, but it is how Halo 4 is being built nonetheless. If you wish to fight it and ask for its removal you have every right. I just personally find it more productive to try and compromise with ideas and coexist with them than to ask for their removal all together.

I really don’t see the problem with armor abilities, I’ve played every single Halo and I can say that it needed some kind of change or else it would have become stale. It ended up feeling like the whole ‘super soldier’ aspect was nothing more than aesthetic and that the whole Halo universe could have just revolved around space marines. Halo needed to actually make you feel like a spartan, and I think armor abilities and sprint will help that tremendously. Except armor lock, never armor lock.

Good thread, can’t say i agree with all of it, but it is well done, none the less. The ranking system you have proposed would be adequate, except I think “spartan points” should be obtainable in the ranked playlists as well, let players earn their armor playing whatever playlists they enjoy.

I think sprint/AA’s should be cut out of the game, however, i am keeping an open mind, and am hopeful they will balance it. I think the best balancing solution for sprint would be to have it cancel out as soon as you take any form of damage, therefore sprinting cannot be used to run away from a fight and can only be used as an offensive tool when flanking your opponents. That way sword lunge could be left alone.

Camps I like how you put everything in a good tone instead of nerd raging all over the forum.

So far you are the only one whos willing to work around the things that were “leaked”

Nice to thrown in that tid bit about starcraft 2, You should use counter strike as an example as well.

If you read about the network testing. They can gather data by weapon usage and determine what is over powered and what is underpowered.

That has never been done before in a halo game so If there is any unbalance, I’m sure it would be tweaked rather quickly.

> Good thread, can’t say i agree with all of it, but it is well done, none the less. The ranking system you have proposed would be adequate, except I think “spartan points” should be obtainable in the ranked playlists as well, let players earn their armor playing whatever playlists they enjoy.
>
> I think sprint/AA’s should be cut out of the game, however, i am keeping an open mind, and am hopeful they will balance it. I think the best balancing solution for sprint would be to have it cancel out as soon as you take any form of damage, therefore sprinting cannot be used to run away from a fight and can only be used as an offensive tool when flanking your opponents. That way sword lunge could be left alone.

Thanks. And I said in my thread players should be able to earn spartan points in ranked as well. You must have just missed it.

Here is a quote from the main thread:

One more thing to note. If you are playing in a ranked playlist, it still awards you with spartan points and advances your progression rank. That way if a player doesn’t like the new progression modes, they won’t be stuck at a private forever. However, the things you buy with your spartan points can only be accessed through the progression playlists, so its recommended you play all types of the game.

So basically we have to accept all the gimmicks 343 feels like throwing into Halo 4? Umm… that is not going to happen. It is foolish to say we can “Just make everything work” in a competitive environment that is not how it works there has to be standards or everyone would still be playing default Reach with armor lock and full bloom and SMG start Halo 2 with a random spread BR. I made a thread outlining how core/Traditional playlists could be set up so competitve/classic players are catered to Here and heres the main gist of it:

> This is how I would like to see Halo 4 “Traditional” or “Ranked” game settings(Subject to change at any time as we get more info about Halo 4):
>
> -Custom loadouts- ONLY Primary/Secondary Weapon Selections if necessary. I do not want to choose my playstyle or class in Halo this is a FPS not a RPG. I want symmetrical starts if possible, if not then only Primary/Secondary Weapon selections with default frag grenades off spawn. This will ensure the most balanced and competitive player traits as possible.
>
> -Instant Re-spawning- This just makes no sense outside of super fast slayer gametypes. Part of competitive Halo is spawn prediction, setting up for map control, and controlled pushes. With instant respawns these key Halo elements are no longer as important. In objective gamestypes, I could exterm the whole team and be no shields grab the flag and not even make it out of the base because the other team would simply spawn instantaneously and all turn to kill me. The same kind of situation can be applied to slayer gametypes. I could take out sniper in Hut from R2 on Sanctuary and the player who died with it could instantly respawn and be there to finish me off before I retrieve the sniper. This leads to a no consequence style of play that makes for linear and chaotic game play. Player A could instantly respawn and kill Player B with no shields whom he had just lost a battle too it work never work in a competitve Halo playlist outside of maybe FFA( Maybe thats what it will be restricted too)?
>
> -Default Sprint- I love the strategic feel of the Halo trilogy and set-ups/map movement is just not the same with sprint. Increased default movement speeds close to H2 with high jump height would be optimal. Sprint is not needed in 4v4 maps if the maps are made to scale, and works horribly on more strategical maps like Lockout, Prisoner, Countdown, and Guardian. Increased default movement speeds for all players allows us to have a variety of maps(Not just symmetrical Arena maps) and encourages different ways of playing/thinking that many of us prefer.
>
> -Progression system- Frankie stated there will be traditional multiplayer modes where we our given access to all weapons right away so I assume this is a given. The core Halo gamer does not want to buy our weapons/abilities, we want “Two Men Enter, the Better Man Wins” Not “Two Men Enter, the More experienced Player wins”.
>
> - Armor Abilties-- I do not know the extent of the AA selection in the game, but we DO NOT want to play with 2 AA’s(Sprint+AA) at a time in core playlists. Please, only movement enhancement AA’s in core playlists like jetpack as pick-ups as implemented in MLG settings. Dont make us go through Reach 2.0 with AA’s some of us like them, others dont. Those of us who prefer no AA’s have just as much of a right to play without them as those that prefer to play with them.
>
> -Power items- Static power items with static timers please. I love the traditional pick-up power items like OS and Camo they are necessary for core Halo gameplay I want to see them return as pick-ups. The snipers,shotguns, rockets,other power weapons should be strategically placed in certain areas making them valuable resources. This is a vital part of any Arena FPS and having power items as pick-ups adds another dimension to the game in giving the game resources players must manage and control sort of like the Budget systems in CS/Shadowrun or the various power items found in traditional Arena FPS like Quake. Having them as loadouts is not the same, they begin to dominate the game and cause imbalance rather than create strategy and choke points on the map. I do not want to have to guess where the power items are spawning or what power item is spawning in the pods, I want traditional Halo power items with static timers so I can set up and plan my game around them. Random drop pods will never work in competitive gameplay I am sure you are aware of that.
>
> From the little Halo 4 information we have received, The settings I describe ensure the most “Core” Halo 4 multiplayer experience and the balanced even playing field Halo is known for.

This is basically the only way I see myself seriously playing Halo 4 with settings close to these, I will not stand idly by as Halo veterans/competitve players are left in the dust and 343 would be smart to appease our community or they will lose a huge portion of the playerbase. All they have to do is LISTEN to what we want we KNOW what works for us and what doesnt, all these new additions(Some of which would completely break the game in a competitve setting) cannot be implemented into every playlist or competitve Halo is dead.

> So basically we have to accept all the gimmicks 343 feels like throwing into Halo 4? Umm… that is not going to happen. It is foolish to say we can “Just make everything work” in a competitive environment that is not how it works there has to be standards or everyone would still be playing default Reach with armor lock and full bloom and SMG start Halo 2 with a random spread BR. I made a thread outlining how core/Traditional playlists could be set up so competitve/classic players are catered to Here and heres the main gist of it:
>
>
>
> > This is how I would like to see Halo 4 “Traditional” or “Ranked” game settings(Subject to change at any time as we get more info about Halo 4):
> >
> > -Custom loadouts- ONLY Primary/Secondary Weapon Selections if necessary. I do not want to choose my playstyle or class in Halo this is a FPS not a RPG. I want symmetrical starts if possible, if not then only Primary/Secondary Weapon selections with default frag grenades off spawn. This will ensure the most balanced and competitive player traits as possible.
> >
> > -Instant Re-spawning- This just makes no sense outside of super fast slayer gametypes. Part of competitive Halo is spawn prediction, setting up for map control, and controlled pushes. With instant respawns these key Halo elements are no longer as important. In objective gamestypes, I could exterm the whole team and be no shields grab the flag and not even make it out of the base because the other team would simply spawn instantaneously and all turn to kill me. The same kind of situation can be applied to slayer gametypes. I could take out sniper in Hut from R2 on Sanctuary and the player who died with it could instantly respawn and be there to finish me off before I retrieve the sniper. This leads to a no consequence style of play that makes for linear and chaotic game play. Player A could instantly respawn and kill Player B with no shields whom he had just lost a battle too it work never work in a competitve Halo playlist outside of maybe FFA( Maybe thats what it will be restricted too)?
> >
> > -Default Sprint- I love the strategic feel of the Halo trilogy and set-ups/map movement is just not the same with sprint. Increased default movement speeds close to H2 with high jump height would be optimal. Sprint is not needed in 4v4 maps if the maps are made to scale, and works horribly on more strategical maps like Lockout, Prisoner, Countdown, and Guardian. Increased default movement speeds for all players allows us to have a variety of maps(Not just symmetrical Arena maps) and encourages different ways of playing/thinking that many of us prefer.
> >
> > -Progression system- Frankie stated there will be traditional multiplayer modes where we our given access to all weapons right away so I assume this is a given. The core Halo gamer does not want to buy our weapons/abilities, we want “Two Men Enter, the Better Man Wins” Not “Two Men Enter, the More experienced Player wins”.
> >
> > - Armor Abilties-- I do not know the extent of the AA selection in the game, but we DO NOT want to play with 2 AA’s(Sprint+AA) at a time in core playlists. Please, only movement enhancement AA’s in core playlists like jetpack as pick-ups as implemented in MLG settings. Dont make us go through Reach 2.0 with AA’s some of us like them, others dont. Those of us who prefer no AA’s have just as much of a right to play without them as those that prefer to play with them.
> >
> > -Power items- Static power items with static timers please. I love the traditional pick-up power items like OS and Camo they are necessary for core Halo gameplay I want to see them return as pick-ups. The snipers,shotguns, rockets,other power weapons should be strategically placed in certain areas making them valuable resources. This is a vital part of any Arena FPS and having power items as pick-ups adds another dimension to the game in giving the game resources players must manage and control sort of like the Budget systems in CS/Shadowrun or the various power items found in traditional Arena FPS like Quake. Having them as loadouts is not the same, they begin to dominate the game and cause imbalance rather than create strategy and choke points on the map. I do not want to have to guess where the power items are spawning or what power item is spawning in the pods, I want traditional Halo power items with static timers so I can set up and plan my game around them. Random drop pods will never work in competitive gameplay I am sure you are aware of that.
> >
> > From the little Halo 4 information we have received, The settings I describe ensure the most “Core” Halo 4 multiplayer experience and the balanced even playing field Halo is known for.
>
> This is basically the only way I see myself seriously playing Halo 4 with settings close to these, I will not stand idly by as Halo veterans/competitve players are left in the dust and 343 would be smart to appease our community or they will lose a huge portion of the playerbase. All they have to do is LISTEN to what we want, all these new additions(Some of which would completely break the game in a competitve setting) cannot be implemented into every playlist or competitve Halo is dead.

No you don’t have to accept the gimmicks. I stated in my own thread that the progression system playlists should be separate from the competitive ranked playlists.

i also said a classic ranked playlist would be a good idea.

> > Good thread, can’t say i agree with all of it, but it is well done, none the less. The ranking system you have proposed would be adequate, except I think “spartan points” should be obtainable in the ranked playlists as well, let players earn their armor playing whatever playlists they enjoy.
> >
> > I think sprint/AA’s should be cut out of the game, however, i am keeping an open mind, and am hopeful they will balance it. I think the best balancing solution for sprint would be to have it cancel out as soon as you take any form of damage, therefore sprinting cannot be used to run away from a fight and can only be used as an offensive tool when flanking your opponents. That way sword lunge could be left alone.
>
> Thanks. And I said in my thread players should be able to earn spartan points in ranked as well. You must have just missed it.
>
> Here is a quote from the main thread:
>
>
> One more thing to note. If you are playing in a ranked playlist, it still awards you with spartan points and advances your progression rank. That way if a player doesn’t like the new progression modes, they won’t be stuck at a private forever. However, the things you buy with your spartan points can only be accessed through the progression playlists, so its recommended you play all types of the game.

Sorry, i got confused.

Its no problem lol.

> I really don’t see the problem with armor abilities, I’ve played every single Halo and I can say that it needed some kind of change or else it would have become stale. It ended up feeling like the whole ‘super soldier’ aspect was nothing more than aesthetic and that the whole Halo universe could have just revolved around space marines. Halo needed to actually make you feel like a spartan, and I think armor abilities and sprint will help that tremendously. Except armor lock, never armor lock.

people get upset over armor abilities because it allows people to spawn unevenly. A lot of competitive players don’t like that and believe Halo should stay more true to its arena roots.