A big "Thank You" to the community

Games Other Halo
1

sigh …or not.
First things first:
Hello!
(^_^)

Little foreword:
This might seem like a venting thread at first and probably is partially, but there are also more constructive comments in the later parts, so please read it all to the end before judging, thank you!
(^_^)

So, I wanna send out a big and totally-not-sarcastic “Thank You” to the complainers who once stated how OP the Covenant in this game was. Was reading tons of very old threads over at the 343 forums about HW’s balancing and saw how people were heavily moaning about the Covenant, though stats said balanced, duh. Great job, guys, now we have an absolute crushingly dominant UNSC in this game instead of a Covenant which was only OP in 1v1 and counterable! Thank you very much! For the first time in the Halo era, UNSC and Covenant were almost balanced, but you couldn’t let it be, right? You just had to complain until you got your “UNSC beats everything”-law back, like in every Halo game, eh? Thank you so much!
(>_<)
[/end of rant]

Okay, because I feel this coming, I’ll explain why the UNSC is so OP.

First, Scorpions. I feel I could leave it with that. Seriously, there is NOTHING that can beat Scorpions, no Banshee (“soft-counter”, my -ZING!-), no Hunters (hard-counter unit which is also softly suspectible by its designated target - genius! What’s next? Sniper rifles without scopes?). Don’t even get me started on the other useless covie units. Leaders? Surely not the Arbiter! Not the ground-Prophet! Not the Brute unless you drive the tanks into a wall!
I don’t know what the hell the devs were thinking when designing tanks. Three tanks tearing apart an army of “soft-counter” Banshees is BS. For HW2, just leave it. Whoever will make that game, DO NOT EVER MAKE SUPER-POWERFUL UNITS!!! EVER!!! Stick to weak and medium units that can’t enter god-tier.

Second, Gauss. Lol. Beautiful “scout” UNSC has there. Again, soft and hard counters fail miserably. So do Brute and Prophet. Arby can fight them off… until the D-Bomb drops. Whooopie!
For HW2, make scouts SCOUTS. No offensive abilities except for other scouts and Flood. SCOUTS.

Third, D-Bomb. Thank you! Thank you so much for it! Covenant must spend tons of resources for the one unit that brings it, just to die by that cheap OP ability. It’s HW’s version of wall-hack. There is no insta-win button against Scorpions, and they are much more deadly and versatile, so why is this atrocity allowed? No D-Bomb for HW2!

Fourth… Well, a lot more, just summarized. Eco bonus, stronger bases/units, turrets, more versatility (best unit and all counters in one building, LOL!), more map control via hogs (Arby’s actually too expensive early on - and just one guy) and so on. I see how Ensemble designed UNSC to overpower Covenant end-game, but this is an idea that can’t work. Either Covie would win cheap (rush) or UNSC (OP). Ensemble did understand that, it seems, so they gave UNSC one heck of a defense and good early-units. Covenant… Not so. Also, everyone plays 3v3, and early-game winning and rushing is out of the question there. Great job!
facepalm

CONCLUSION:
I think I might have forgotten some details, but this should be sufficient for now.
For Halo Wars 2, I would suggest to create just ONE class. BUT, with different models. Like Banshees perform just like Hornets, Wraiths like Scorps, etc…

Now, before you shout out “boring!”, hear me out:
Blizzard are the only ones who are capable of kinda balancing games. If experienced Ensemble failed with HW1, the successor will definitely, don’t build up any illusions! So, in the end, there will be one dominant class again, which will be played by the majority of top-tier players. There goes diversity. So why not give everyone the same cards in the hand, but allow for different looks? Like a BR starts game of Halo 4, just with different skins for the BR!
d(^_^)

Any comments (if there are still people here)?

2

Have you ever actually fought scorpions with banshees? Three stock scorpions aren’t going to beat any more than about 5 boost banshees, one on one they’ll win but considering they cost twice as much to build that’s hardly a win for them. Without a d-bomb UNSC would get destroyed by any arby able to rage halfway decent, as he could kill any army they could build within the first 7 minutes with enough supplies and fiendish/defiant.

Covey serves a different purpose than UNSC (in 2v2/3v3) banshees perform much better against tanks than hornets, brutes have great early game offense, and a good arbiter can turn the tide of any game and influence your opponent’s play in your favor besides.

I’ll concede on gauss as without it’s long build time and tanks wrecking it, it’d be the only unit worth building.

3

Yup, I have fought Scorps so many times, and it just isn’t possible for me to destroy them. They just move around and my Banshees are immediately screwed, as they miss with their fuel rod shot and can’t pursue Scorps without interrupting the firing process. Also, they’re out of paper. Scorps laugh at taking damage, only to be healed by the healing ability.
=/
Another thing: It’s 3v3 - one always builds anti-air if he sees me playing covie. My Banshees get destroyed by Vampires and Wolverines, and what options do I have left? More Banshees to be slaughtered? Vampires to fend off enemy anti-air, leaving the Scorps untouched? Tanks are main vehicles, so they are useful against anything. Even if they meet resistance, they can perform well against it. With Banshees on the other hand, you are just helpless if there’s only the slightest presence of anti-air. And Vampires… Duh.

The Arbiter wouldn’t rage down the UNSC. I’ve read that a few times before, but even without the D-Bomb, the Arbiter can’t beat tanks. He can only heal by killing, and tanks rarely die. Fiendish return does not work well, neither, Scorp hp are just too high.
The only time my Arbiter actually turns the tide is when I’m facing heavy Covenant Vampire fleets and need to help mine.

I mean, seriously… My last game? We crushed one Brute player (at least almost) and delayed the second. Only to be completely annihilated by Scorpions. One stupid Scorp army took out three enemies… Just… WOW!
(O_O)

4

You’re convenant. It’s called mass hunters. For crying out loud canister shells can BOUNCE OFF OF THEM. I will admit that canister shell glitch is very unfair, and it’s a shame this isn’t a pc game that could have received numerous fixes and balances from independent players and fledling modders (See Age of Empires 2 and Dawn of War 2) but you have no right complaining about scorpions. Scout, and if you see depots, make hunters. The tech transition from tanks to air takes a long time if you have sufficient numbers to squash the scorpions.

5

> Yup, I have fought Scorps so many times, and it just isn’t possible for me to destroy them. They just move around and my Banshees are immediately screwed, as they miss with their fuel rod shot and can’t pursue Scorps without interrupting the firing process. Also, they’re out of paper. Scorps laugh at taking damage, only to be healed by the healing ability.
> =/

Learn to boost shot.

> Another thing: It’s 3v3 - one always builds anti-air if he sees me playing covie. My Banshees get destroyed by Vampires and Wolverines, and what options do I have left? More Banshees to be slaughtered? Vampires to fend off enemy anti-air, leaving the Scorps untouched? Tanks are main vehicles, so they are useful against anything. Even if they meet resistance, they can perform well against it. With Banshees on the other hand, you are just helpless if there’s only the slightest presence of anti-air. And Vampires… Duh.

By the sound of it you’re running two UNSCs with one covey on your team if that is the case you should be able to out tank them (assuming they only have one UNSC) if both teams have two UNSCs you should be able to match their tanks at which point you need to win air lead, then mix in banshees.

> The Arbiter wouldn’t rage down the UNSC. I’ve read that a few times before, but even without the D-Bomb, the Arbiter can’t beat tanks. He can only heal by killing, and tanks rarely die. Fiendish return does not work well, neither, Scorp hp are just too high.
> The only time my Arbiter actually turns the tide is when I’m facing heavy Covenant Vampire fleets and need to help mine.
>
> I mean, seriously… My last game? We crushed one Brute player (at least almost) and delayed the second. Only to be completely annihilated by Scorpions. One stupid Scorp army took out three enemies… Just… WOW!
> (O_O)

Depending on the tech level and quantity of tanks this shouldn’t be the case. Early in the game a a tech 1 arby should be able to tear apart just about any number of stock tanks assuming no dbomb and he doesn’t run out of supplies. Once they have canny (or pt) arby loses his value but can still be valuable for dishing out some damage just not the bulk of it.

By the sound of it you’re allowing your opponent to go tanks by not putting enough, if any, pressure on them early in the game with your covy(s) and then expecting the armies you build to stand up to a full pop of PT. Use your leader to put pressure on them early, because if you leave them untouched, then yes PT will destroy you.

6

Appreciate the tips, guys!
d(^_^)

Hm, I know that Hunters work against Scorps. However, when I mass Hunters, I get smashed by everything else, especially air. Hunters only perform slightly better against Scorps, but are helpless against anything else. The enemy team will get an advantage by forcing me into Hunters, that’s why it’s so unfair. Scorps just do well against anything.
=/

Boost shotting is nice and all, and if the Scorpions try to flee, I can catch them. But that’s time not spent shooting, while the Scorps keep firing on my frail base or other units, only to be rescued by reinforcements shortly after. It’s just that whatever I pull off, there is a bitter pill to everything, and UNSC doesn’t have that disadvantage.

Lastly, yeah, I know, UNSC is designed to completely annihilate the Covenant end-game. As I stated in my original post, that just doesn’t work out well for this game. I can’t put on enough pressure with randoms in 3v3. On the other hand, even if I defeat an enemy player, the remaining two will come for my defenseless base. Sometimes I have great team members defending me, but don’t count on it.

Curiously, the most fun games I played were pure Covenant. I suppose pure UNSC is just as much fun, would I play it more!
xD
This whole early-game-Covenant / end-game-UNSC thing just doesn’t work, imo. I have to go all out early with CV, hoping my buddies got my back? Why would I do this? Could rather play safe and sound with UNSC, defending until my Scorps are an instant win…
That’s just… Doesn’t work…

Or am I missing something?

7

> I can’t put on enough pressure with randoms in 3v3.

This sentence is the crux of your problem. UA 3s is a contest of who gets the most people-above–Yoink–level on one team, nothing more. For rushes/early game pressure to have any positive impact for you, there needs to be some level of team coordination, since this is one of covy’s greatest strengths, and something not present in UA 3s I take UNSC over covy always in UA 3s. If you want to win UA 3s hope you don’t get the ODST guy, the nothing but flying prophet/scarab guy, or the guy who builds no units until 15 minutes in and that’s about all you can do.

8

Ah, I see we understand each other! Great!
d(^_^)

Yup, that’s exactly what I’m moaning about. Covenant is all specialised and frail and needs serious player control - UNSC is just an instant win after the timer ran out. Works for 1v1, but hell, that’s boring. And why did no one see this coming?
(o_ô)

9

> hope you don’t get the ODST guy,

Unless you’re playing Ft. Deen. Then you hope you don’t get the moron who doesn’t realize you can stall forever with ODST’s to max out your PT tank army with splaser spartans.

10

> > hope you don’t get the ODST guy,
>
> Unless you’re playing Ft. Deen. Then you hope you don’t get the moron who doesn’t realize you can stall forever with ODST’s to max out your PT tank army with splaser spartans.

What I mean by the ODST guy who is the guy who builds zero units and just spends the first 12 minutes of the game teching ODST on one base, and then flares his base like crazy expecting you to save it when the enemy sends a couple tanks at him.

11

Yes… I know what you meant… ODST’s are moronic on anything but Ft. Deen and then on Ft. Deen not making them is equally moronic.