A better Halo = A simpler Halo ?

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Everyone knows the best Halo games were either 2 or 3 not Reach or 4…

those games had fewer weapons, no loadouts, no unlocks, no tactical packages, no armor abilities

they were simpler games that relied on more fundamental characteristics to sustain player interest

those were the formulas that made halo legendary in the first place

Reach and post reach halo were victims of trends in my opinion

for halo 5, is it too much to ask for a simpler halo? is that even possible now ?
do you feel that could be the key to returning halo to its legendary status ?

2

Halo’s core gameplay should definitely return to its roots, but I don’t see why loadouts, personal ordnance, and the like can’t return in specific or non traditional game modes. I’m also an advocate of sprint becoming a permanent ability, albeit in a tweaked implementation from Halo 4’s version.

3

To answer your questions…
Yes it is better when more simple and isn’t much to ask.
Yes it is possible.
But I’m only partial to the returning to Legendary status.

Reducing weapons isn’t a great need or even very needed, only some few tweaks and new weapons(unique as well) will be needed. Although too many weapons types would cluster the sandbox.

Personal Ordnance is an issue. Placing it in MM isn’t exactly a good idea…(same with Random Ordnance)

Initial Ordanance isn’t bad at all and can be evry useful as opposed to before when you had to learn the times and plcaing(although removing it wouldn’t hurt and would add a bigger/tiny bit larger skill gap)

Now all that Loadout stuff is a problem. Either they limit the options to Primary, Secondary, and grenade(with AAs being preset in gametype) or they can make it completely preset again. I personally don’t want AAs to be removed only because they have much more potential. But the Unlock system for these needs to go, players who play more shouldn’t be rewarded with the ability to kill more easily or have a greater time.

Armour is a great system the way it is/was ever since Halo Reach.

4

Interesting, I have not thought of it before, but I enjoy Halo’s story most of all, so game complexity has flown under the RADAR for me. I really like the progression (simple to complex) and variety of halo games (FPS, strategy, arcade). I think that if they stayed to anyone type or style it might get old, but it has been a few games since a “simpler” style…I just don’t know if Halo 5 is the time to change it up. Perhaps a prequel to before CE or a spin-off related to ODST…for example. Good point though…

5

> Personal Ordnance is an issue. Placing it in MM isn’t exactly a good idea…(same with Random Ordnance)

What about limiting its implementation to certain game modes?

6

> Everyone knows the best Halo games were either 2 or 3 not Reach or 4…
>
> those games had fewer weapons, no loadouts, no unlocks, no tactical packages, no armor abilities
>
> they were simpler games that relied on more fundamental characteristics to sustain player interest
>
> those were the formulas that made halo legendary in the first place
>
> Reach and post reach halo were victims of trends in my opinion
>
> for halo 5, is it too much to ask for a simpler halo? is that even possible now ?
> do you feel that could be the key to returning halo to its legendary status ?

Wasn’t there allot of hate for 2 and 3. We can’t really say that they were the best, as a personal opinion yes but as a matter of fact probably not. No matter what Bungie or 343i try to do it will receive a ton of negative feed back from one party or another. Halo 2 received a ton criticism similar to how halo 3, reach and halo 4 received negative feed back for adding and changing old mechanics.

You can’t really please everyone, to some halo reach was one of the best halos to some halo 4 and so on. It all personal preference.

Personally halo CE was the best halo as it was what created the whole universe. But to me Halo reach is where I had the most fun both competitively and casual.

So no halo 2 or 3 wasn’t one of the best halo games. They might have sell well and were popular at the time. But when you say it was the best halo that’s you’re own personal opinion and you only speaking for your self. People will agree with you and people will disagree with you. I am the letter because I personally didn’t see them as the best halos, they were allot of fun and all but personally I feel that I had the best experience in reach and that’s just a personal opinion.

Personally I don’t feel like simplicity is the way to go or over complicated something in the middle. Halo 4 was overly completed to me because of all the reskin weapons. Halo 3 was alright in that it wasn’t to simplified or complicated but to me halo reach it was perfect. Some might agree with me some my disagree with me, but thats my own opinion on how I feel about it.

7

> Wasn’t there allot of hate for 2 and 3. We can’t really say that they were the best, as a personal opinion yes but as a matter of fact probably not. No matter what Bungie or 343i try to do it will receive a ton of negative feed back from one party or another. Halo 2 received a ton criticism similar to how halo 3, reach and halo 4 received negative feed back for adding and changing old mechanics.
>
> You can’t really please everyone, to some halo reach was one of the best halos to some halo 4 and so on. It all personal preference.
>
> Personally halo CE was the best halo as it was what created the whole universe. But to me Halo reach is where I had the most fun both competitively and casual.
>
> So no halo 2 or 3 wasn’t one of the best halo games. They might have sell well and were popular at the time. But when you say it was the best halo that’s you’re own personal opinion and you only speaking for your self. People will agree with you and people will disagree with you. I am the letter because I personally didn’t see them as the best halos, they were allot of fun and all but personally I feel that I had the best experience in reach and that’s just a personal opinion.
>
> Personally I don’t feel like simplicity is the way to go or over complicated something in the middle. Halo 4 was overly completed to me because of all the reskin weapons. Halo 3 was alright in that it wasn’t to simplified or complicated but to me halo reach it was perfect. Some might agree with me some my disagree with me, but thats my own opinion on how I feel about it.

  1. 90% of people thinks they was better…
  2. Xbox live population became from 200k to 20k
  3. MLG cut out Halo 4 from competitive circuits…

1+2+3 = epic fail (imho).

i think a better halo must have skilled gameplay, without random factors…

armor abilities, extradamange, ecc are random factors…

8

> > Wasn’t there allot of hate for 2 and 3. We can’t really say that they were the best, as a personal opinion yes but as a matter of fact probably not. No matter what Bungie or 343i try to do it will receive a ton of negative feed back from one party or another. Halo 2 received a ton criticism similar to how halo 3, reach and halo 4 received negative feed back for adding and changing old mechanics.
> >
> > You can’t really please everyone, to some halo reach was one of the best halos to some halo 4 and so on. It all personal preference.
> >
> > Personally halo CE was the best halo as it was what created the whole universe. But to me Halo reach is where I had the most fun both competitively and casual.
> >
> > So no halo 2 or 3 wasn’t one of the best halo games. They might have sell well and were popular at the time. But when you say it was the best halo that’s you’re own personal opinion and you only speaking for your self. People will agree with you and people will disagree with you. I am the letter because I personally didn’t see them as the best halos, they were allot of fun and all but personally I feel that I had the best experience in reach and that’s just a personal opinion.
> >
> > Personally I don’t feel like simplicity is the way to go or over complicated something in the middle. Halo 4 was overly completed to me because of all the reskin weapons. Halo 3 was alright in that it wasn’t to simplified or complicated but to me halo reach it was perfect. Some might agree with me some my disagree with me, but thats my own opinion on how I feel about it.
>
> 1. 90% of people thinks they was better…
> 2. Xbox live population became from 200k to 20k
> 3. MLG cut out Halo 4 from competitive circuits…
>
> 1+2+3 = epic fail (imho).
>
> i think a better halo must have skilled gameplay, without random factors…
>
> armor abilities, extradamange, ecc are random factors…

I didn’t mean that halo 4 was the best. What I meant was that to some halo 4 was the best as it can be said to any other halo. Its all personal preference.

Halo 1 through 3 were ok to “me” but I didn’t feel like nominating them as the best become I feel that I had the most fun in Reach.

I also feel that halo should return to being a skill game but without throwing everything out the window from the past 10 years or 5 to go back to being halo 3 or 2. I feel like every halo should have its own quality that defines them ao it wouldn’t feel like juat one big DLC, halo 5 should be its own game and not a copy past of previous games. It should fix the mistakes of halo 4 and add new stuff in. Keeping the game fresh and not stagnant. Halo 2 changed allot of stuff and took away some so did halo 3 and so on. We can’t just say oh halo 2 and 3 were the best halos and we should return to the games old routes. Because then the game will just die from being stagnant and the only thing that will keep it alive will be dedicated fans who have been their sense the being who are probably in their 20s or 30s to even early 40s. Thats how I feel about the matter, I do think that it should be simplified a little but not like halo CE simplified.

9

I think its crazy how the multiplayer mode is the MAIN thing on these forums that decides when Halo game is good or not. the campaign is what most non-forum people care about, hence why the people playing the game goes down from 400,000 a day to 10,000 in 2/3 months. meaning i believe next halo will be awesome, coz the campaigns get better everytime and doesnt split the fansbase as much as matchmaking does.

i think a better halo, has no dlc matchmaking maps and crap, as it turned out pointless in halo 4, make dlc story/campaign stuff instead, change how playlists work in halo matchmaking, by creating an MLG/classic playlist for competitives, all other playlists create a server browser instead to view/join/queue for matches, effectivly getting rid of JIP, and also making it more transparent what matches are played where so its easier to play on maps and gametypes you want. but seens how unpopular halo MM is at the minute in comparison with other franchises, i hope that campaign/co-op modes get more attention from 343i than a failed MM gamemode that people who arent fanboys obviously are bored of nowadays. infinity didnt kill matchmaking, people bored of halo matchmaking killed halo matchmaking. lol

10

Not necessarily simplicity, just more static factors. Complications are part of the joy of certain lost elements of the classic Halo franchise, such as Plasma Stun, Grenade Bouncing, Weapon Launching, and Button Combos.

But these all had something in comon, they were static. There was nothing random about them. They were factors that existed that everyone had available at ALL times, and which had the same consistent outcome every single time.

Then when you look at Loadouts, AAs, and Ordinance, what you see is unpredictable and random. One player could spawn with a completely different weapon, ability, and set of perks than everyone else, and all of a sudden that player has completely different capabilities than everyone else, such as being capable of moving faster, or holding more grenades, flying, or having a one-hit-kill weapon on his hip. None of the other players are capable of doing the things this player can do until they die, THAT is a problem.

With Ordinance, it’s completely mechanically random. You have no idea what your options will be, and everyone gets different ones. When one player gets a Rocket Launcher, and the other gets a Needler, well obviously the game is lopsided and unfair. When a Rocket Launcher spawns in the middle of the map, every player has the ability to attempt to pick it up.

There has always been a small aspect of random you need to deal with in Halo games, such as weapon spread, Assymmetrical map advantages, and on some level respawns. But for the most part these little bits of random are something EVERYONE has to deal with at all times. It doesn’t disable one player any more than it disables everyone else. But that’s no excuse to pour more and more random elements into the game.

On the topic of Sprint which is separate. It’s just a matter of why fast base movement without Sprint plays better as a rule.

The reason is combat, you cannot Sprint and engage combat. And when you Sprint you only Sprint in one direction. The involvement of Sprint means that base movement needs to be slow. So what we wind up with is base movement too slow to be useful in-combat. Strafing is ineffective, trick maneuvors happen so slowly they don’t make a difference. And yet Sprint is too fast, you get away from a fight so easy and the only way for someone to get in position to finish you off is to… STOP SHOOTING. It just doesn’t work.

11

> > Everyone knows the best Halo games were either 2 or 3 not Reach or 4…
> >
> > those games had fewer weapons, no loadouts, no unlocks, no tactical packages, no armor abilities
> >
> > they were simpler games that relied on more fundamental characteristics to sustain player interest
> >
> > those were the formulas that made halo legendary in the first place
> >
> > Reach and post reach halo were victims of trends in my opinion
> >
> > for halo 5, is it too much to ask for a simpler halo? is that even possible now ?
> > do you feel that could be the key to returning halo to its legendary status ?
>
> Wasn’t there allot of hate for 2 and 3. We can’t really say that they were the best, as a personal opinion yes but as a matter of fact probably not. No matter what Bungie or 343i try to do it will receive a ton of negative feed back from one party or another. Halo 2 received a ton criticism similar to how halo 3, reach and halo 4 received negative feed back for adding and changing old mechanics.
>
> You can’t really please everyone, to some halo reach was one of the best halos to some halo 4 and so on. It all personal preference.
>
> Personally halo CE was the best halo as it was what created the whole universe. But to me Halo reach is where I had the most fun both competitively and casual.
>
> So no halo 2 or 3 wasn’t one of the best halo games. They might have sell well and were popular at the time. But when you say it was the best halo that’s you’re own personal opinion and you only speaking for your self. People will agree with you and people will disagree with you. I am the letter because I personally didn’t see them as the best halos, they were allot of fun and all but personally I feel that I had the best experience in reach and that’s just a personal opinion.
>
> Personally I don’t feel like simplicity is the way to go or over complicated something in the middle. Halo 4 was overly completed to me because of all the reskin weapons. Halo 3 was alright in that it wasn’t to simplified or complicated but to me halo reach it was perfect. Some might agree with me some my disagree with me, but thats my own opinion on how I feel about it.

While Halo 3 received its fair share of hate, it was because it was the king at the time. Playstation people hated it because it outsold all of Sony’s exclusives combined and others only hated it because it was popular.

If we want to get into statistics, Halo 3 sold the most copies to date with a smaller install base. Yes Halo 4 sold more faster because of a very large install base, but the mp is a shell of launch day and it has been the subject of scathing debate to say the least.

The good philosophy is if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Bungie threw a lot of that away with Reach and 343 disposed of it entirely with Halo 4. I’m not saying I want a carbon copy of older halos, but there was literally no reason to diverge from Halo’s core formula. It sold well and was well received so why did Reach and 4 bastardize all that we once loved?

because all the kiddies like CoD or Battlefield today…

12

It’s not about being simpler. It’s about being competitive.

You can have lots of predictable game elements in an arena setting. Just leave the randomness behind.

13

> It’s not about being simpler. It’s about being competitive.
>
> You can have lots of predictable game elements in an arena setting. Just leave the randomness behind.

this.

14

Complexity is fine as long as it leads to predictable rules and traits. Randomness through game features or too much customization is not okay.

15

> <mark>Everyone knows the best Halo games were either 2 or 3 not Reach or 4…</mark>
>
> those games had fewer weapons, no loadouts, no unlocks, no tactical packages, no armor abilities
>
> they were simpler games that relied on more fundamental characteristics to sustain player interest
>
> those were the formulas that made halo legendary in the first place
>
> Reach and post reach halo were victims of trends in my opinion
>
> for halo 5, is it too much to ask for a simpler halo? is that even possible now ?
> do you feel that could be the key to returning halo to its legendary status ?

That is purely personal opinion that I don’t care smack about at this point. I getting tired of all the Halo 3 fanboys and the Halo 4 fanboys. Move on people, the next game is going to be a hybrid of the two. WE need to keep both sides happy. Make a compromise and return some of Halo gameplay’s back to the more static roots of 3 while keeping some of the new evolved elements of 4.

The Halo universe does not revolve around one type of Halo player. I don’t want hear stats like “Oh look at the population” or “MLG dropped Halo 4”. YAY!!! WE know these thing and killing a chunk of the smaller fanbase we have left because Halo 5 did not comply to one side is completely idiotic. A lot of people who left have given up. Yes, I think we should give them some reason to come back to what they knew and loved but it should also be a new experience.

I AM DONE WITH PEOPLE BEING COMPLETELY STRONGHEADED AND STUBBORN ABOUT THIS. HALO 5 DOES NOT NEED TO BE AN EXACT COPY OF HALO 3 OR JUST LIKE HALO 4!

Sidenote: I understand that the OP is probably referring to the randomness element of the game but I really just felt like ranting.