A Beginner's Take

I’ve mentioned before that H4 is the first 1st-person shooter I’ve tried to play, but I’ve stated it again so that anyone who reads this understands that I fall into a different category of player than most of the posters here.

The campaign in H4 is a load of fun. Frustrating (especially when you can’t shoot straight), but fun. The storyline is a bit campy, but cool. The vehicles are awesome (even though I can’t use them effectively yet). In my opinion, my money was well-spent for the campaign alone. And because I’m not very good yet still figured I’d start off on Legendary, it’s given me plenty of playtime. I’m still not done yet.

But the main reason I bought H4 is for the MP side. I played at a friend’s house and racked up all of 7 kills in about 15 games, but still thought it was awesome. So I bought an Xbox and H4 and played primarily MP.

The Problem

Halo is hard . . . especially if you’re doing a 1st-person shooter for the first time. For those who’ve played regularly, you may not realize how hard it is because you’re already used to the basics of aiming and moving in a first-person environment. As much as you want the game to cater to the experts (and it absolutely does need to), there must also be a way for beginners to improve. Being -15 every game is quite discouraging.

Most of you assume the reason the MP player pool has decreased is due to lack of catering to the folks in this forum, who generally seem to be expert players (from my perspective). Please think about this again, because this cannot possibly be the case. There were not 400,000 experts simultaneously playing H4 on the release date. I do not know what the hardcore Halo player pool is, but it is unlikely to be anywhere near 400,000 people who can all play simultaneously. Even if it is as high as 100,000 (which I doubt, but admittedly have no real data to back that up), this means the large majority of the players were casual players. Not as inexperienced as me, most likely, but casual nonetheless - even if they’d played the previous Halo games.

Those players don’t care about many of the problems the experts do. They either don’t know enough to have an opinion (like me) or those problems don’t affect their enjoyment of the game. It is these players that necessarily made up the largest contingent of the original player pool, and it is these players that necessarily have been primarily responsible for the decrease in the player pool. Mathematically, it cannot be any other way.

So while the issues most of you are concerned with do affect your enjoyment of the game and may cause you to drift away from the Halo series, they simply cannot be the primary reasons behind the population drop. I am not trying to minimize your concerns. I am simply stating that they cannot be the primary reasons for the population drop.

I do think I know the actual reason, however. My evidence is only anecdotal, and I may be wrong, but I do not think so.

The reason you lost many of the MP players (most of whom were certainly casual players) is quite simple:

Halo is very difficult to play well.

And you guys can take that as a compliment, by the way, since most of you are far better players than I am.

My friends who got me into Halo no longer play MP. At all. Campaign, yes. MP, no. And the reason they stopped is because most games end with a couple of guys taking the vast majority of the kills and everyone else is either neutral or on the bad side of the K/D ratio. And playing Objective games without being able to compete in gun skills is a futile endeavor.

For Halo to survive as a series with a sizable MP player pool, this has to be addressed. If it is not, then each future game will have a smaller and smaller player pool, the casual players will not even bother, and the experts will gradually drift away. Then all any of you will have is CoD (which is apparently worse than contracting Ebola). Bashing on “noob” tactics does you no credit, as for beginners, many of those tactics are the only way to avoid 20+ deaths. If you want overall gameplay to improve, you need to proselytize, not criticize.

A Potential Solution?

I’ve opined a few times about things on here. Some of my opinions I still think are valid; many I’ve come to change my mind. One of them, however, I feel quite strongly about: You cannot simultaneously cater to experts and beginners with the same match rules. Not possible. Beginners like having incineration cannons fall from the sky like manna because that’s the only way they might luck into a kill. Experts like taking out 46 ordinance-toting opponents with the Magnum.

At the same time, duplicating playlists is probably not a great idea. The pro lists would be occupied by ever-increasingly skilled . . . and, as a result, ever-decreasing number . . . of players. It doesn’t matter how good the gameplay is if there’s no one to play with.

What I would propose for you to consider is rather than having duplicate playlists, have a single “practice” playlist. Big team slayer would probably work the best. This is where the beginners and super-casuals can play. It would have all the noobie benefits and ordinance galore. But the key to making it work as a stepping stone is that some or all of the armor customizations, specializations, spartan rank, etc., cannot be attained in the practice list. And the stat tracking would need to be limited to simple things, like K/D and wins. No more. Otherwise, there’d never be a reason to move up. You could simply “excel” at beating a bunch of other crappy players.

In the “real” playlists, 343 could focus on resolving many of the issues you guys are concerned with - weapon balance, random ordinance, AAs in loadouts, and whatever else is wrong to the expert player.

If you guys want Halo to survive as a first-person shooter that requires skill to play (which means being good at it actually means something), you’ve got to recruit new players. You need the cannon fodder. There is no other option. And if you make many of the changes you ask for apply to existing playlists, you will most certainly prevent new players from developing. So the beginners need a place where they can play relatively non-competitively in order to learn. And that place needs many of the features of H4 the experts don’t like (and probably even more, to be honest).

But to ensure that you always have a place to play the game you want to play, all of the other playlists should cater to the serious players. If beginners want to try those lists (and they will), then they need to step away from the binary rifle and try to shoot someone in the head with a BR. Leave the beginners one giant mosh pit to learn the basics of the controls . . . and once they’ve gotten that done, they will absolutely begin striving for the bennies available in the real playlists.

But until that mosh pit is available, my opinion is that you will drive the playlist population down even further with some of the things you want.

Lastly . . . I really cannot understand some of the vitriol thrown around in here by people who profess to hate the game yet oddly have racked up thousands of kills and lots of playing time. Unless you are deliberately torturing yourself, the game cannot really be that bad.

I just have a couple seconds here B4 I have to go back to work but your perspective is welcome and appreciated, at least by me.

I agree with what you have said, although I’m not sure about the “screw-around” playlist thing. They had something like that called FireFight Arcade in Halo:Reach, where everyone got power weapons, unlimited ammo, and unlimited lives. People went in there and came out thinking they could play Halo. It was not a way to learn to get better. What they needed to do if they wanted to go that route was to play FireFight Limited. Even better with skulls on. Then they would learn to play Halo.

Thank you.

And I should clarify: I did not mean to imply that those things should be unlimited in the practice playlist. . . some hyperbole was involved. What I meant was that there needs to be a playlist that is challenging to the beginner / casual player, but not so difficult as to drive most players away.

The idea of allowing people to turn skulls on is a good one. Once you feel you’ve gotten the hang of it, you could deliberately put yourself at a disadvantage to improve further . . . and the nice thing is that it would be at your pace. Perhaps let playing with skulls unlock a certain number of customizations, while leaving the majority of the bennies for the real playlist.

This was a good read and agree with you on most of it.

However I think action sack and/or multi-team is better for being “practice playlist(s)” since no-one realy takes them very serious anyway and I wouldn’t want to mess with the hardcore big team guys :wink:

While there might be something to a pure practice playlist, which is just a chaotic moshpit of noobs messing around, learning the ropes, I think an easier solution IS duplicate playlists. Halo 3 did it, with ranked and social, and it worked fine. Both were about evenly populated, and you could only somewhat rank up in the social playlist, which like you mentioned earlier meant stats and how you performed didn’t carry as much weight.

And then anyone who wanted a competitive match, whether they were skilled or unskilled, could get it by playing a ranked game, and they would generally be matched with players of similar skill. That method has been used before and proven to work, so it just seems like the most practical solution to me.

This is EXACTLY why a working ranking system is important (I’m not talking about a number rank but simply matching people with others of equal skill level). The problem with the current ranking system is that it takes a long time to sort out the players and by that time, newer players are already gone (and that’s assuming the background formula is accurate in its evaluation of players). I think H3 did have training playlist for new players that the older players couldn’t access,but once you had a few games under your belt it disappeared. I’m not sure if that alleviated this problem. Perhaps they can try to tweak it as you suggested to encourage new players to stay. But to be honest, younger gamers tend to eventually pick the game up if they have an incentive to stay. I’m not sure if that is an in game rank, or the popularity of the game in general, but they need something to motivate them to stick w/ the game. There are plenty of players who started w/ Halo 3 who had to compete w/ veteran H2 players and it didn’t deter them. But I don’t know the exact answer to why.

All I have to say is Halo CE was not my first FPS, but it was most likely my first dual analog FPS and Halo used to be a lot harder than it is today. Granted, I obviously didn’t do matchmaking until Halo 2 and by then I had definitely got a hold on the basics. Either way all the older Halos were a lot harder yet maintained a much larger audience and didn’t have ordnance, so I don’t really buy that people NEED the new features to get better.

But one thing is true. We used to have a ranked social split that we no longer have, so that was a nice stepping stone that is now missing. Another thing is that a good ranked matchmaking system should pair you with equally skilled players, so after playing for a while you shouldn’t have to worry about being stomped on, unless ofcourse you are so bad that you can’t beat campaign or spartan ops missions.

But I definitely don’t think we need a “training” playlist, and if we do it shouldn’t sacrifice Halo’s core gameplay otherwise you’ll never get good at halo anyway.

I think the best way to get better at halo is to play the campaign and beat it on at least normal, and since you obviously no someone who plays halo, play custom games with friends who aren’t jerks that will just stomp on you. After you aren’t a total noob, I highly recommend finishing the campaign on legendary. Doing this will greatly improve your skill, even if it doesn’t get you competitive against other players. <-this is how I got better at Halo. Another suggestion would be to buy some cheap used single player FPSes that require some skill. “Black” for the original Xbox comes to mind.

if there would be a training playlist this is how I would do it:

-Don’t have special new person features. Maintain the core gameplay.
-make it 4 person FFA, that way you aren’t overwhelmed and get a little breather between fights.
-have utility rifle starts, so you are forced to learn.
-maybe have a variant with bottomless clips and shields that refill sooner and faster, so you can focus more on strafing aiming and moving, and less on dying and reloading.
-have a matchmaking game limit, for example: once you played 20 matches outside of this playlist you no longer have access to it.

A problem with a training playlist, is it will have a very low population so it might not even be functional. You also have to find a way of discouraging jerks from playing it who just want to slaughter new players.

The truth is, if you just want a playlist with all the new crap that isn’t really true to Halo’s roots, you already have Infinity slayer. I don’t mind if that stays a playlist, I just:
A) don’t think it should have replaced the tradition social/team slayer.
B) and it won’t really help you get better at true Halo, as much as true halo will.

If you need a playlist that helps you get familiar with power weapons, that’s what action sack is for, but even then, the campaign, spartan ops, and customs, should help you get well acquainted with the sandbox without ever having to worry about real life opponents. I don’t think it’s true that you need all this new stuff to get better at Halo. Started before all this new stuff as a kid and did just fine. My wife started playing FPSes at the end of Halo 3 and learned just fine in that and Reach. Ultimately you get better at a game by actually playing it, and to me ordnance and loadouts, just isn’t Halo, so they won’t really help you get good at halo, just good at infinity.

Even if you suck, if you really want to get good, play slayer pro in rumble pit and doubles, or anything in throwdown. If you want to get REALLY good, play an older Halo game. Infinity is just a way of getting acquainted Halo, not a way of succeeding at it.

ps. Swat is always a good playlist to practice aiming and get comfortable with precision weapons IMO.

I think one of the things that makes Halo 4 harder for a new player than any of the past titles is that all playlists are dominated by precision rifle play. If I hadn’t been eased in to regular multiplayer with standard assualt rifle loadout gametypes in past games, I’m not sure I’d have ever improved. I got used to all the other aspects of the game (grenade throwing, proper movement, reading the HUD/motion tracker) without having someone four-shotting my head before I could even turn around and face them. I still died more than I killed at first, but the playing field was more level.

I wasn’t even a new FPS player when I first started playing online either. I’d been playing single-player, campaign FPS since the PS1-era, but real people are a whole new ballgame compared to programmed AI. People lose sight of that…or maybe they were amazing from the first moment they picked up a controller. I certainly wasn’t.

Nice OP, welcome to the community. Its refreshing to see that someone of reasonable intelligence, even with very little Halo experience, can see the need to separate different types of players and an easy way to do it.

You pretty much nailed it on the head, except in Halo 3 it was handled by separating playlists into two different categories: Social and Ranked. For competitive players (of all skill levels), there was an option to play games your hardest and work to improve, getting great amounts of satisfaction watching your visible rank increase over time. For casual and inexperienced players, there was an option to play more recreationally, giving new players a chance to get their feet wet in the matchmaking system, and all players to enjoy fun, sometimes silly games.

This system catered to all player types and skill levels, meaning that both sets of playlist were usually well populated. It seems like a painfully obvious way to handle the situation you are facing…

On a side note, feel free to send me a friend request. As an experienced Halo player I’d be happy to help out in some matchmaking and offer any advice I can to help make the game more enjoyable for you.

gt: Delementary

agree on all counts, you basically put a lot of what I’ve been trying to say since before E3 even and put it all in one post.

However, i think that even the “practice playlist” as it were, should have more than just slayer, so noobies can learn gametypes and strategies as well as weapon and movement skills.

and on top of that i think it should have its own seperate CSR ranking, so that once you get to a nice roundabout central CSR ranking in that playlist (between 25 or 30 sounds good), it kicks you out of the play list, removes it from your playlist options, and wipes it from your service record, otherwise total hardcore gamers will go in and wipe the floor with noobs just for kicks.

And people that have already been playing can not have a CSR more than like 5, 10, or even 15 or something in any given playlist at any point (to keep pros from de-ranking themselves to get in) to play in the “practice list”. you know, some restrictions to keep it a casual/noob playlist.

EDIT: yes i am aware of people that will troll and make new accounts just to get into said playlist, but with restrictions i suggested, their trolling will be short lived, especially if playlist CSR doesnt go higher than 25 or 30

(btw i came up with numbers based on the half way point between 0 & 50 and the median based in intervals of 10 going from 10-50)

Another quick thing:

Excellent poll! Others could learn from you. I don’t know why so many polls have to have 17 choices, most of which aren’t relevant and just water down the results.

Sure would like to hear from others that just picked up the game, since that seems to be 343i’s new target market.

i think its the loadouts that dissuade casual players.

i talked to a friend who is casual gamer and we talked about halo 4. he told me how hard it was and just not very fun in mp, but he loved the sp. i started talking about what i like about multiplayer, different tactics, experiences, and he was really confused. turns out he didnt have a clue about loadouts and unlocking things. he agreed that some of it sounded like a lot of fun, but he didnt even know they were options. when i told them most of it you have to unlock, he kind of shied away.

i really think 343 did an awful job explaining the loadouts. i dont even actually remember any type of tutorial or explanation when you first start playing.

i think it was dumb to have to play to unlock things that give you an advantage. we know it doesnt take long to unlock things, but if you are a casual player you dont know that or it will be a long time for you. also people dont even realize the specializations unlock things that can really help your play style. those do take a long time to unlock.

> Halo is very difficult to play well.

Halo WAS relatively difficult to play well. If you think starting out in this game is hard I’d hate to see you start with games like Halo 3 or Counter Strike.

And I can guarantee most of those 400k players had played the previous titles. Saying the majority of them are new or inexperienced, that makes no sense.

But anyways, I don’t care if people are new and bad at games. I get my -Yoink- kicked in many other FPS’s that I’m new to, but I don’t complain or ask for the game to become easier, I learn and play harder. Because what fun is there in having everything just handed to you?

If I have a 0.7 k/d in a game I’m fine with that. I’d rather have a 0.7 k/d that means something instead of a 3.00 k/d that means absolutely nothing because the game is targeted at toddlers.

I realize “I’m not the best, and that’s ok”. I don’t need the game to lie to me and give me thousands of medals and good scores that I don’t deserve. Only the people actually good at the game deserve it.

> 3.00 k/d that means absolutely nothing because the game is targeted at toddlers.

this screams call of duty to me, and even though it inspired a few things in H4, it is still no where near CoD. I am by no means new to halo, and i still find H4 to be much more skill oriented than other FPS.

my K/D is 0.825 (slowly but surely going up, but i get a few bad games here and there that really play hell with it but i am an over all decent halo player) even with ordnance drops which are considered “noobish”

i find myself in a very competitive feeling gameplay. and i have a feeling it will be even more so when CSR works properly, i say so what if some one gets ordnance on assists? it takes them longer to get ordnance anyways, AND it creates more challenge for me, and i happily accept said challenge.

> <mark>This is EXACTLY why a working ranking system is important</mark> (I’m not talking about a number rank but simply matching people with others of equal skill level). The problem with the current ranking system is that it takes a long time to sort out the players and by that time, newer players are already gone (and that’s assuming the background formula is accurate in its evaluation of players). I think H3 did have training playlist for new players that the older players couldn’t access,but once you had a few games under your belt it disappeared. I’m not sure if that alleviated this problem. Perhaps they can try to tweak it as you suggested to encourage new players to stay. But to be honest, younger gamers tend to eventually pick the game up if they have an incentive to stay. I’m not sure if that is an in game rank, or the popularity of the game in general, but they need something to motivate them to stick w/ the game. <mark>There are plenty of players who started w/ Halo 3 who had to compete w/ veteran H2 players and it didn’t deter them</mark>. But I don’t know the exact answer to why.

This exactly. Halo 3 was my first FPS besides Medal of Honor for PS2. I loved halo 3 i played it at a friends house and i got smeared on his account because he was a lv 40 but I went out bought an xbox and got better and it took a while. Kids these days have an attention span of a rock and dont like to work at anything. Im 18 and I can see this. Mario is even dumbed down now, that game was impossible back on the NES. Games will never be hard to be good at ever again becasue of how every kid is brought up to be a winner and the best now.

People can stop blaming COD for halo 4 turning out like how it did. We live in a generation now where everyones a winner and if your not you should sue them. People need to toughen up and stop making every kid feel like they’re on a pedestal of greatness. Sorry about the rant that got off topic a little.

I’ve played Halo:CE, 2 and 3, but only the campaigns. 4 is the first I’ve tried the multiplayer in. So of course I like it because I have no frame of reference…

And I only put it that way because all the older players talk about features (true arena-style play, no drops, no AAs, map control, etc.) that intrigue me. Granted I’d probably do worse in that style of play, but I’d love to try it. Regardless, I enjoy Halo 4’s multiplayer, it’s (usually) damn good fun.

Personally I find this game difficult enough. My K/D is only 0.92, I see people headshotting 10 players in 5 seconds with a BR and I just don’t understand how that’s even possible. My thumbs are nowhere near that precise and I’ve been playing video games since around 1984. Anyone saying “this game hands out K/Ds of 3.00 because it caters to toddlers” is off their rocker.

But even so, I have improved from where I was when I first jumped into it. Sure, on my rare best day I’ll score a 16-4 or a 25-10 in BTB, nothing major…I typically just scrape by with a few more kills than deaths, but a few months ago I couldn’t even manage that…

So anyway, OP, just keep practicing, you’ll get better.

Very much like the idea of a “practice” playlist…I think it used to be called social slayer. I also like how the OP wanted the (I’ll just call it Social Slayer) playlist to only keep track of minimal stats…I would offer up that it keep track of nothing…save number of games played. That would promote people not playing in social slayer unless they are nubs. I personally want to progress and would have no need to play in social slayer…and if I couldn’t earn commendations, much less. All in all I’m for social slayer…O-ya that was in Halo 3…and it was fun…and then every new dev team decided they needed to put their “stamp” on the game…and now we have halo 4…super.

I think one of the solutions to the OP’s issues would be a system similar to Starcraft 2’s ladder/league system.

Sections for each player to play in and placement matches for each player.

For a first timer he is makin sense. I like him. Welcome to the FPS world more importantly welcome to the amazing universe that is Halo.

> “this game hands out K/Ds of 3.00 because it caters to toddlers” is off their rocker.

Am I now?

Try no-scoping with the Sniper Rifle in Halo 3. No, Halo CE even.

Now try no-scoping with the Beam Rifle in Halo 4.

If you don’t notice a MASSIVE difference in difficulty I don’t know what to say to you.