In zero bloom gametypes, the DMR will still be the most effective utility weapon. Even though the magnum is a 4sk with a higher rate of fire, it’s balanced by these 3 factors which greatly limit its effectiveness:
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It has far less range than the DMR. On Countdown for example, even with perfect aim the spread can cause you to miss upwards on 1-2 shots from one big door to the other.
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The DMR is considerably easier to aim than the magnum. The magnum has less aim magnetism and significant recoil at medium range.
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It has an 8-round mag, compared to the DMR’s 15. This limits it in two ways: A. It makes two clean kills without reload very difficult to achieve. B. You can’t just spray and hope for the best. Aiming each shot is required to kill an opponent with one clip.
These factors will keep the magnum a situational weapon, while the DMR will still be the best all-around weapon. The magnum will be king of close range, and will be a good gun to whip out when down in shots, but the majority of the time your best bet will remain the DMR. The DMR should be a 4sk to equal the magnum is shots to kill, to quicken game pace, and to increase individual capability, but the magnum should remain a 4sk with a considerably higher RoF than the DMR so as to retain its CQB role.
Additionally, the pistol will help aid something zero bloom is admitingly lacking in: variety. While the NR and DMR will be the lone mid to long range weapons, at least there will be an alternative at close range.
Note: I don’t take other niche-type weapons into account because they will play a very limited role in zero bloom, since 343 hasn’t buffed them to match bloomless utility weapons. It is accepted that zero bloom will revolve around the DMR, magnum, NR, and power weapons.
> In zero bloom gametypes, the DMR will still be the most effective utility weapon. Even though the magnum is a 4sk with a higher rate of fire, it’s balanced by these 3 factors which greatly limit its effectiveness:
>
> 1. It has far less range than the DMR. On Countdown for example, even with perfect aim the spread can cause you to miss upwards on 1-2 shots from one big door to the other.
>
> 2. The DMR is considerably easier to aim than the magnum.
>
> 3. It has an 8-round mag, compared to the DMR’s 15. This limits it in two ways: A. It makes two clean kills without reload very difficult to achieve. B. You can’t just spray and hope for the best. Aiming each shot is required to kill an opponent with one clip.
>
> These factors will keep the magnum a situational weapon, while the DMR will still be the best all-around weapon. The magnum will be king of close range, and will be a good gun to whip out when down in shots, but the majority of the time your best bet will remain the DMR. A slight reduction in RoF would be acceptable (on the level of 10-15%), but the magnum should remain a 4sk with a considerably higher RoF than the DMR so as to retain its CQB role.
>
> Note: I don’t take other niche-type weapons into account because they will play a very limited role in zero bloom, since 343 hasn’t buffed them to match bloomless utility weapons. It is accepted that zero bloom will revolve around the DMR, magnum, NR, and power weapons.
I don’t think it is either. But I think to make everybody happy with it’s current ROF and the DMR’s 5 shot is the make the pistol 6 shot. If you land all your shots you win. If you miss one you lose. I think it’s fair.
youre right the 4sk magnum isnt overpowered. Grenades arent either. Hell, to balance the game we need a scarab gun because that wouldnt be overpowered.
I understand where youre coming from considering the magnum’s close - mid range. But the fact that there are so many close mid range maps: Countdown, swordbase, reflection, zealot. Makes it dominate gameplay on all of those maps, making it overpowered. In theory its pretty legit, in gameplay its not.
It isn’t OP because of its damage. It isn’t OP because of its lack of bloom. It is OP because of its incredibly fast rate of fire. I’m not asking for a HUGE decrease in the RoF, but a slower magnum is pretty necessary; the thing shoots so fast that you can barely react to being shot by the time that you are dead.
A player can fire 8 shots, that’s 2 kills worth of perfect shot landing on the heads, and 1 kill with at least 1 reserve shot with all body-shots, in less than 2 seconds.
The DMR kills with perfect shooting in 2 seconds.
As for the bigger O to shoot through than with the DMR, the bullets land in the middle of the reticle regardless. Don’t know about you, but I’ve had lots of practice with scopes that have inverted cross-hairs. If I’m not against an NR, which at least can harass me much more than the DMR, I can confidently stand still and just out-shoot, instead of out-play, a DMR’r. If the DMR’r ducks in and out of cover, so can I, reload, then repeat the out-shooting instead of out-playing.
I may not be perfect in aim, but I am confident I can put 7 shots from the Pistol into a kill before the 5 or 6 shots of the other weapons get me nearly 100% of the time. I can definitely pull of a trade-kill in 2 seconds without getting the trade once in a blue moon.
So far I see the idea of the DMR being a 4 shot, the NR being perhaps a 5 shot and the Pistol being a 5 shot (last shot head for all) as being a better alternative without ROF changes.
Or, with ROF changes, the shot length shortened for the rifles and the Pistols lengthened to maintain their current shot hits. The Pistol could kill in 1.25-1.5 seconds where the rifles could kill in 1.5-1.75 seconds. It could keep things more inline than current.
I think the pistol should kill faster than the DMR because otherwise there is not much point in using it. I personally like it the way it is, but I know some people think it’s too fast. To me, the small clip and reduced zoom balance it.
I think the best alternative would be to increase movement speed to 110% or maybe even 120% and leave the zero bloom weapons alone.
> It isn’t OP because of its damage. It isn’t OP because of its lack of bloom. It is OP because of its incredibly fast rate of fire. I’m not asking for a HUGE decrease in the RoF, but a slower magnum is pretty necessary; the thing shoots so fast that you can barely react to being shot by the time that you are dead.
And it’s high rate of fire is balanced by the factors I mentioned…
i mother Fing love the no bloom 4sk magnum. people that are mad now do yourselves a favor and stay away from the 3sk anniversary playlist when its out after 11/15 lol. yay pistola!
What spread?
Without bloom, and with bleed, both the DMR and Magnum are broken.
i think he is saying the spread on the magnum (not bloom, we are talking no bloom) is bigger on the magnum than on the dmr. go shoot a wall at mid-long distance with both then go look at the grouping. at the right distance dmr will still beat a magnum with current rate of fire. and at mid-close or closer the magnum will win.
Just because you managed to back up your argument without resorting to nebulous terms like “skill” and “skill gap”, I give you a thumbs up.
HOWEVER. The fact remains that the Magnum (and the NR) got a boost in damage via the shield bleed through, something no other weapon had the luxury of receiving. That by itself is enough to suggest that the Magnum is now OP, but throw in the fact that it’s accuracy and effective RoF are increased, and it now overpowers most CQB weapons.
LOL thanks bud. ok i was thinking magnum was overpowered at all distances is what was meant. but i do agree it is alooot stronger at CQC and can even take out a sprinting sword guy before he makes it to you. i bet it will be toned down a bit in all but the anniversary playlists. i personally have fun with it but in the 85% bloom playlist it wont be as prominent either even without a damage change.
> Just because you managed to back up your argument without resorting to nebulous terms like “skill” and “skill gap”, I give you a thumbs up.
> HOWEVER. The fact remains that the Magnum (and the NR) got a boost in damage via the shield bleed through, something no other weapon had the luxury of receiving. That by itself is enough to suggest that the Magnum is now OP, but throw in the fact that it’s accuracy and effective RoF are increased, and it now overpowers most CQB weapons.
I don’t deny that it does beat CQB niche weapons. But like I said, it’s an accepted sacrifice that niche weapons will play a very small role in zero bloom. The magnum isn’t OP in comparison to the NR and DMR for the reasons I stated, and therefore it’s not OP in zero bloom.
Agreed. It is perfect for its niche, and requires a lot of skill to pull off a 4 shot.
While it isn’t OP, the rest of the sandbox is UP. Its RoF should be altered so that it fits the sandbox more. For the CE gametype, the regular damage should be set to 110% with 90% resistance, and the Magnum should be a 3-shot to where the damage isn’t incredibly bad that its a 3 shot even without the headshot, that the RoF matches that of the CE Pistol along with being made automatic, and that there is a slight percentage of bloom on it to simulate the blooming spread that the CE Pistol had when fired on automatic.
> While it isn’t OP, the rest of the sandbox is UP. Its RoF should be altered so that it fits the sandbox more. For the CE gametype, the regular damage should be set to 110% with 90% resistance, and the Magnum should be a 3-shot to where the damage isn’t incredibly bad that its a 3 shot even without the headshot, that the RoF matches that of the CE Pistol along with being made automatic, and that there is a slight percentage of bloom on it to simulate the blooming spread that the CE Pistol had when fired on automatic.
Definitely. The niche weapons are UP. The Anniversary magnum I heard is a 3sk with headshots, and a 6sk with bodyshots, with slight bloom (like CE magnum) so slow the optimal RoF a little.
> A player can fire 8 shots, that’s 2 kills worth of perfect shot landing on the heads, and 1 kill with at least 1 reserve shot with all body-shots, in less than 2 seconds.
>
> The DMR kills with perfect shooting in 2 seconds.
>
> As for the bigger O to shoot through than with the DMR, the bullets land in the middle of the reticle regardless. Don’t know about you, but I’ve had lots of practice with scopes that have inverted cross-hairs. If I’m not against an NR, which at least can harass me much more than the DMR, I can confidently stand still and just out-shoot, instead of out-play, a DMR’r. If the DMR’r ducks in and out of cover, so can I, reload, then repeat the out-shooting instead of out-playing.
>
> I may not be perfect in aim, but I am confident I can put 7 shots from the Pistol into a kill before the 5 or 6 shots of the other weapons get me nearly 100% of the time. I can definitely pull of a trade-kill in 2 seconds without getting the trade once in a blue moon.
>
> So far I see the idea of the DMR being a 4 shot, the NR being perhaps a 5 shot and the Pistol being a 5 shot (last shot head for all) as being a better alternative without ROF changes.
> Or, with ROF changes, the shot length shortened for the rifles and the Pistols lengthened to maintain their current shot hits. The Pistol could kill in 1.25-1.5 seconds where the rifles could kill in 1.5-1.75 seconds. It could keep things more inline than current.
5sk DMR kills in 1.6 s. Also, if you believe the pistols beats the DMR at medium range, perhaps we should do an octagon where I use the DMR and you use the pistol? (not saying a better than you, I just believe whoever uses the DMR will win)
Also, I think a 4sk DMR and 4sk magnum would work excellently. The NR shouldn’t be used in zero bloom though due to its headshot bug.
I’m going to have to disagree. The Magnum is completely overpowered at shorter ranges. Unless you’re in an encounter with someone who has a godly strafe, getting that 4sk is going to be VERY easy. Furthermore, because of the high ROF, the difference between getting a 4sk, 5sk, and even a 6sk is negligible.
its a good thing that the people that don’t like it don’t have to play it.
> its a good thing that the people that don’t like it don’t have to play it.
Considering that people who don’t like bloom had to put up with it for more than a year…