343i, Halo: Reach, and MLG

Games Other Halo
1

Welcome fellow Halo players and hopefully 343i employees,

As the title states, this thread is focused on MLG. The point I hope to make is what 343i can do to use this latent gold mine (MLG) to its advantage.

Major League Gaming started in 2002 as a small group of Halo 1 players who wanted organized competition. This company has grown since then and has become a gaming powerhouse with Halo 3 as its flagship game. When Halo: Reach came out, many fans of the series lost faith after Halo 3 set the bar so high. MLG, sencing the decline of Halo: Reach, turned its head to the direction of newly released games.

Now, only two years after the peak of the MLG-Halo frenzy, MLG fans are now putting Halo: Reach in the backburners, thinking that 343i does not care about MLG. Now this HUGE revenue is slipping out of 343’s grasp.
I think we can change that.
I have compiled a few things that may bring the Halo community and the MLG community back together:

1). Announcements: Many a time have we popped in our copy of Halo: Reach to see an update about the new TU. Let’s take this recource and use it in a new way: use the bulletin to expose people to the world of MLG, it doesn’t have to be big, simply a few sentences about this great competitive community. In addition to the normal “B to close” option, add an “A to go to Marketplace” where you can purchase episodes of the MLG “Halo: Reach top 10” series. THOUSANDS of people would see this per day, many of which could be potential MLG players who want to find a way to compete.

2). Advertisements: Youtube is one of the most used site worldwide. Halo players -competitive and casual- use this site daily. A simple in-video add would do a world of help becasue countless people will see it and recognize either MLG or Halo in the add and click on it.

3). Home Exposure: This topic might cause a little confusion, but what I mean is that the Halo: Reach official site, the one which you are on right now, is the most likely place to get revenue from MLG. A simple section of the “Communtiy” drop-down tab that links to MajorLeagueGaming.com would create tremendous traffic to and from the different sites, resulting in profit for both.

In conclusion, MLG needs Halo: Reach, and Halo: Reach needs MLG but the two have split appart, leaving many dissapointed players (including myself) in limbo. The cooperation of the two organizations would have a huge effect on the attitude of Halo players, also greatly increasing the sales of Halo 4.

Thank you for your time,
Sincerely, Im 7 on the 7th

2

Im pretty sure microsoft can handle its own marketing campaign, thanks.
MLG is a business, if they want promo help from 343i im sure theyll ink up a contract to that effect with microsoft via the usual channels.

Also the MLG already have more than enough representation with 343i as it is.

3

> Im pretty sure microsoft can handle its own marketing campaign, thanks.
> MLG is a business, if they want promo help from 343i im sure theyll ink up a contract to that effect with microsoft via the usual channels.
>
> Also the MLG already have more than enough representation with 343i as it is.

I agree, I think Microsoft is fully capable of handleing its own marketing, I am just shining light on the issue.

Adressing your second point, I don’t mean to sound hostile, but perhaps you didn’t read the post fully, the main point was to get the two communities together againm not neccisarily to bring about a partnership between the two organizations.

Finally, as far as i know, 343i does have a good relationship with MLG, but apperantly being in good standings with one another does not cut it; Halo: Reach was almost knocked off the Pro Circut for Columbus. This would have been a blow to Halo’s foothold in MLG that it would have not been able to recover from.

4

> Welcome fellow Halo players and hopefully 343i employees,

Awesome! Welcome to you and this is the way you make an entrance, sweet thread =)

> As the title states, this thread is focused on MLG. The point I hope to make is what 343i can do to use this latent gold mine (MLG) to its advantage.

Halo and MLG have been in a partnership for a long time and that cow has shown how much milk it will give. My opinion is that if anybody in this relationship needs to step it up, its MLG.

> Major League Gaming started in 2002 as a small group of Halo 1 players who wanted organized competition. This company has grown since then and has become a gaming powerhouse with Halo 3 as its flagship game. When Halo: Reach came out, many fans of the series lost faith after Halo 3 set the bar so high. <mark>MLG, sencing the decline of Halo: Reach, turned its head to the direction of newly released games.</mark>

When MLG decided to turn its head on the franchise that literally laid the foundation, they exposed their dedication to the partnership that was being built for a decade. Not good =/

> Now, only two years after the peak of the MLG-Halo frenzy, MLG fans are now putting Halo: Reach in the backburners, thinking that 343i does not care about MLG. Now this HUGE revenue is slipping out of 343’s grasp.

For the amount of effort that goes into promoting MLG, how besides turning control of Halo can 343 and MS do more?

> I think we can change that.

They people that are controlling the future of MLG is in the hands of MLG itself, not 343.

> I have compiled a few things that may bring the Halo community and the MLG community back together:

Sounds good, let me take a look at those 0.0

> 1). Announcements: Many a time have we popped in our copy of Halo: Reach to see an update about the new TU. Let’s take this recource and use it in a new way: use the bulletin to expose people to the world of MLG, it doesn’t have to be big, simply a few sentences about this great competitive community. In addition to the normal “B to close” option, add an “A to go to Marketplace” where you can purchase episodes of the MLG “Halo: Reach top 10” series. THOUSANDS of people would see this per day, many of which could be potential MLG players who want to find a way to compete.

MLG has its own playlist, is featured prominently on the front page and dare I suggest MLG does their part to promote itself. If at this point MLG is waning in success, it would appear to me that promotion is not the problem.

> 2). Advertisements: Youtube is one of the most used site worldwide. Halo players -competitive and casual- use this site daily. A simple in-video add would do a world of help becasue countless people will see it and recognize either MLG or Halo in the add and click on it.

Sounds good, but every person may utilize youtube and I often see clips on youtube made by MLG fans.

> 3). Home Exposure: This topic might cause a little confusion, but what I mean is that the Halo: Reach official site, the one which you are on right now, is the most likely place to get revenue from MLG. A simple section of the “Communtiy” drop-down tab that links to MajorLeagueGaming.com would create tremendous traffic to and from the different sites, resulting in profit for both.

I like it and think that Waypoint should expand the site with some sort of group feature and if 343 did, MLG should be featured prominently, it is after all a very successful club essentially.

> In conclusion, MLG needs Halo: Reach, and Halo: Reach needs MLG but the two have split appart, leaving many dissapointed players (including myself) in limbo. The cooperation of the two organizations would have a huge effect on the attitude of Halo players, also greatly increasing the sales of Halo 4.

MLG has almost complete control of the settings in their playlist, what more do they need to attract player? From the casual perspective, MLGs problem is not exposure, its the game they are playing. How does MLG expect to be popular in Reach if the game they play hardly resembles the current game and seems to be an updated Halo 3? Until MLG addresses the fact that they are playing an antiquated version of Halo and adjust to what is attracting modern Halo players, they will slowly perish and they can lecture everyone on the ultimate balanced settings for the next decade, but most of us will be busy having fun playing a game of Halo.

> Thank you for your time,

Thank you for a splendid post =)

> Sincerely, Im 7 on the 7th

Yours truly, Plunder.

5

> > Im pretty sure microsoft can handle its own marketing campaign, thanks.
> > MLG is a business, if they want promo help from 343i im sure theyll ink up a contract to that effect with microsoft via the usual channels.
> >
> > Also the MLG already have more than enough representation with 343i as it is.
>
> I agree, I think Microsoft is fully capable of handleing its own marketing, I am just shining light on the issue.
>
> Adressing your second point, I don’t mean to sound hostile, but perhaps you didn’t read the post fully, the main point was to get the two communities together againm not neccisarily to bring about a partnership between the two organizations.
>
> Finally, as far as i know, 343i does have a good relationship with MLG, but apperantly being in good standings with one another does not cut it; Halo: Reach was almost knocked off the Pro Circut for Columbus. This would have been a blow to Halo’s foothold in MLG that it would have not been able to recover from.

Bolded the part that proves to me what MLG people seem to truly believe. Its staggering.

Tell me, why exactly should microsoft care if MLG decide they dont want to play halo anymore? Would that devastate the franchise? Socially? Financially? I dont think it would. The way i see it, MLG needs halo (to sell lots of stream passes, to turn a profit as a profit-seeking business), but halo does not need MLG. Halo sold plenty just fine before MLG even existed, enough to basically carry the original xbox into a market that sony dominated through sheer force of bundle sales. Bottom line, Halo owes MLG nothing. Bungie seemed to realise this at the end, when they got tired of the whining over bloom etc and relations with MLG seemed frosty.

I dont mean to sound hostile either, its just what i think. I dont understand this mindset that MLG and halo are inseparable. That neither could exist without the other.
In the purest business sense, Halo makes the cars and MLG puts the aftermarket 26" chrome spinners on them. Its cool and all, but that car maker aint gonna worry about changing the wheel arch so the MLG wheels dont fit anymore. And they aint gonna worry about discontinuing that old model of vehicle altogether because the market wants something new, regardless of if MLG has still got a warehouse full of wheels to sell. And why should they?

Regardless, 343i is already tight enough with MLG as it is. The main page of this site is usually plastered with MLG stuff and their plan for halo multiplayer so far seems to be phone up some 16 year old pros or whatever and say “tell us what to do”. So i dont think youve really got anything to worry about.

6

Damn i shouldnt have even posted. Plunder covered all the bases and much better than i could have. Exemplary community member yet again :>

7

Although Halo was the flagship game for MLG, the 2011 season marked a change with the popularity of StarCraft II and the Reach settings, which was nowhere near as competitive as previous Halos. By far, bloom was what upset the competitive community.

During the off-season, the Halo community had the challenge of coming together and demonstrating that Halo was not down for the count. The Halo Council and pro streams, combined with the ZB NS settings, helped to bring the community back together, and now Reach gets another shot in Columbus next month.

I agree in bringing more exposure to competitive gaming, MLG and Halo: Reach. While advertisements and such will help, the best way would be just by the word of mouth: share it with friends, family, etc., as well as online.

I’ll be tuned into the Columbus event, watching only Halo: Reach. That, along with playing the playlist, is the best way to support competitive Halo. Hope you guys tune in as well!

8

Ever since Halo 3 left MLG I didn’t care anymore. All that was once fun and good with MLG Halo was lost. I’ve been waiting for the day that Reach gets removed from MLG and it’s hopefully going to come soon. The only chance Halo has to be good for MLG is with Halo 4 … or bringing back good ole’ Halo 3.

9

First off, thanks for posting about this 7. You’ve brought up some good issues. Unfortunately, there are several issues that you over looked. Most importantly is the level of vehemence between the “casual” and the “competitive” player communities. Since H3, MLG has received a bad reputation due to the attitudes of players (deemed “tryhards”) in its playlist. The elitist attitudes of such individuals have turned many a player away from MLG. Furthermore, you have the polarization of ideals between the “competitive” players and the “casual” players that is often manifested in threads on the forums. Both parties behave pretty immaturely in those threads. Fortunately the MLG community is starting to come together and act more maturely and treating players better online, but there is still the bitter taste left in the mouths of many from the H3 Tryhard. The bad image such individuals have given MLG will continue to be a major hurdle for growth within the Halo community. Its disappointing that so many players at this point have a blind hate off MLG.

Now lets get to the other part, MLG and Halo have had a symbiotic relationship for a long time and it has continued to grow and change over the years. At this point MLG doesn’t need Halo, nor does Halo need MLG. However, without MLG, the competitive arm of Halo will wither. MLG’s presence in Halo has been the lifeline that kept many dedicated fans tethered to the franchise, especially through H3 and Reach. If MLG drops Halo, or 343i drops MLG, expect a lot more players than just what you see in the MLG playlist to disappear. Hopefully H4 will breath some life into the franchise again.

> Ever since Halo 3 left MLG I didn’t care anymore. All that was once fun and good with MLG Halo was lost. I’ve been waiting for the day that Reach gets removed from MLG and it’s hopefully going to come soon. The only chance Halo has to be good for MLG is with Halo 4 … or bringing back good ole’ Halo 3.

You are the elitist cancer that plagues the community. MLG and Halo would be better off if you left and never came back. Its players like you that refuse to tolerate anything outside of your perception of “competition” (regardless of how flawed your perception is) and continue to spew hate and intolerance at others. You make the rest of the community look bad.

10

To Fatal and Plunder:

This is a plea from the community, not MLG. And MLG didn’t “desert Halo”, Halo deserted MLG. Bungie clearly had no intention of creating a competitive game, or even providing settings that the competitive community could enjoy. MLG was losing money by setting up events for Reach and that’s why it was strongly considered being cut. The only reason it wasn’t cut was because of the TU and 343’s cooperation, resulting in MLG giving Reach “one more chance”.

The thing is, MLG as a business doesn’t really care anymore, but there is a vast community who does, and that is what this thread is about. This is about 343 supporting the competitive community, all that it has to do with MLG is that MLG is the host of the most competitive settings in Halo.

Not to mention, I’m sure the vast majority of the community doesn’t even know what MLG is. All the OP is asking is for MLG to get exposure so players who may enjoy the settings who just don’t know about them, can have a better gaming experience while also growing the MLG community and increasing MLG’s ability to support Halo and the competitive community.

I know you guys, or at least Fatal, have a burning hatred for MLG due to the members of the community who you have experienced, but like I’ve said dozens of times, they are few and far between in actuality. And, myself, and many other members who attend the MLG forums are making a decent effort to reduce the overall hostility and condescending towards other players as we all know that is a very large factor in the stagnant growth, and even decline, of MLG.

I don’t play MLG because I don’t like playing competitively, although I do support MLG as a community and I do thoroughly enjoy their settings due to the increased skill gap. I also love to watch events, and they are something I look forward too. Just thought of Reach getting cut from the circuit and simply not having some awesome Halo to watch anymore really bummed me out, and I’m sure anyone who finds the skill of Halo to be important enjoys them as well. Even my casual friends who are competitive or decent at Halo love to watch the events w/ me.

> vehemence between the “casual” and the “competitive” player communities.

BAD SECRET SCHNITZEL! BAD!

> You are the elitist cancer that plagues the community. MLG and Halo would be better off if you left and never came back. Its players like you that refuse to tolerate anything outside of your perception of “competition” (regardless of how flawed your perception is) and continue to spew hate and intolerance at others. You make the rest of the community look bad.

… I don’t see how he was demonstrating symptoms of “elitist cancer”. He just seems like a H3 kid. To those of us who have been around the block, it’s obvious that pre-Reach, Halo 3 was the bane of competitive Halo, but you can’t expect everyone to know that. I mean I think we can all agree the only reason H3 was MLG’s flagship game was because it was the predecessor to CE and H2. Reach just tipped it over the edge.

Other that those 2 points though, great post.

11

> > > Im pretty sure microsoft can handle its own marketing campaign, thanks.
> > > MLG is a business, if they want promo help from 343i im sure theyll ink up a contract to that effect with microsoft via the usual channels.
> > >
> > > Also the MLG already have more than enough representation with 343i as it is.
> >
> > I agree, I think Microsoft is fully capable of handleing its own marketing, I am just shining light on the issue.
> >
> > Adressing your second point, I don’t mean to sound hostile, but perhaps you didn’t read the post fully, the main point was to get the two communities together againm not neccisarily to bring about a partnership between the two organizations.
> >
> > Finally, as far as i know, 343i does have a good relationship with MLG, but apperantly being in good standings with one another does not cut it; Halo: Reach was almost knocked off the Pro Circut for Columbus. This would have been a blow to Halo’s foothold in MLG that it would have not been able to recover from.
>
> Bolded the part that proves to me what MLG people seem to truly believe. Its staggering.
>
> Tell me, why exactly should microsoft care if MLG decide they dont want to play halo anymore? Would that devastate the franchise? Socially? Financially? I dont think it would. The way i see it, MLG needs halo (to sell lots of stream passes, to turn a profit as a profit-seeking business), but halo does not need MLG. Halo sold plenty just fine before MLG even existed, enough to basically carry the original xbox into a market that sony dominated through sheer force of bundle sales. Bottom line, Halo owes MLG nothing. Bungie seemed to realise this at the end, when they got tired of the whining over bloom etc and relations with MLG seemed frosty.
>
> I dont mean to sound hostile either, its just what i think. I dont understand this mindset that MLG and halo are inseparable. That neither could exist without the other.
> In the purest business sense, Halo makes the cars and MLG puts the aftermarket 26" chrome spinners on them. Its cool and all, but that car maker aint gonna worry about changing the wheel arch so the MLG wheels dont fit anymore. And they aint gonna worry about discontinuing that old model of vehicle altogether because the market wants something new, regardless of if MLG has still got a warehouse full of wheels to sell. And why should they?
>
> Regardless, 343i is already tight enough with MLG as it is. The main page of this site is usually plastered with MLG stuff and their plan for halo multiplayer so far seems to be phone up some 16 year old pros or whatever and say “tell us what to do”. So i dont think youve really got anything to worry about.

I want to thank you for your posts. Although i can’t say i agree with everything that you explained, it sure did show me a different way to look at things, thanks for being civil.

12

> First off, thanks for posting about this 7. You’ve brought up some good issues. Unfortunately, there are several issues that you over looked. Most importantly is the level of vehemence between the “casual” and the “competitive” player communities. Since H3, MLG has received a bad reputation due to the attitudes of players (deemed “tryhards”) in its playlist. The elitist attitudes of such individuals have turned many a player away from MLG. Furthermore, you have the polarization of ideals between the “competitive” players and the “casual” players that is often manifested in threads on the forums. Both parties behave pretty immaturely in those threads. Fortunately the MLG community is starting to come together and act more maturely and treating players better online, but there is still the bitter taste left in the mouths of many from the H3 Tryhard. The bad image such individuals have given MLG will continue to be a major hurdle for growth within the Halo community. Its disappointing that so many players at this point have a blind hate off MLG.

I agree. I think i did miss the core subjuect of this topic: the community. in stead i went for finnancial benifits which it is obvious that niether company is in desperate need of. I, for one, and as many of my friends as i can get will be watching the Halo: Reach Columbus tourny because

> That, along with playing the playlist, is the best way to support competitive Halo.

well said, Rockersk08

13

I just hope people will tune into the stream for Columbus (If it’s free; if it’s pay-per-view I’m just waiting for the VOD). If people just ignore the d-bags that plague the MLG playlist, I don’t see how they can’t enjoy watching the gameplay of the best players in Halo, especially since thousands of us watch gameplay on YouTube.

The games last year were exciting, and the settings last year created a much slower-paced game. This year, the number of competitive teams is incredible; there are like 8 teams that have the potential to win the tournament. The games will be close, the maps will be better, the gameplay will be faster, and Gandhi has gotten much better at commentating.

People should ignore their prejudice towards the MLG crowd and try to tune into the stream. There won’t be any trash-talkers and d-bags you have to worry about.

14

To be honest, what keeps me out of the MLG Playlist isn’t the d-bags these days. I just mute 'em and move along… Its the poor map selection. Now I know the rest of the forge community will crucify me for saying this, but I simply don’t care for Oasis or Nexus. I despise SaloT’s Pit remake, and I can’t stand playing on our bland gray Sanctuary or Zealot. I’m fine with playing on KC’s Sanctuary as its at least a good map, but there are better versions out there… The only map I genuinely like is Countdown. And sadly, Countdown isn’t really that great of a map to begin with…

Needless to say, I spend most of my time playing custom games and forging. I wander into TS occasionally to throw my support behind TU as well.

15

> To be honest, what keeps me out of the MLG Playlist isn’t the d-bags these days. I just mute 'em and move along… Its the poor map selection. Now I know the rest of the forge community will crucify me for saying this, but I simply don’t care for Oasis or Nexus. I despise SaloT’s Pit remake, and I can’t stand playing on our bland gray Sanctuary or Zealot. I’m fine with playing on KC’s Sanctuary as its at least a good map, but there are better versions out there… The only map I genuinely like is Countdown. And sadly, Countdown isn’t really that great of a map to begin with…
>
> Needless to say, I spend most of my time playing custom games and forging. I wander into TS occasionally to throw my support behind TU as well.

Good news for you:
Gametypes and Maps to be Announced on the 28th
Expected Maps:
Beaver Creek
Damnation
Sanctuary
Countdown
Zealot
Nexus
Powerhouse/Pit (Either Pit CTF or Powerhouse King of the Hill)

Oasis is not going to return, it’s unanimously despised due to the terrible spawns. Sanctuary will remain the same due to time restraints, but if there is another tournament, you can expect an updated/better version.

There are possibly 3 new maps to be added, all with color. I agree with you on the Pit remake. It’s a great remake, but I don’t think it plays well in Reach. It’s also very laggy.

16

Thanks for the heads up Mitch. We’ve been through periods before though were we expected exciting changes… Only to be smacked with disappointment. Only a few more days before the settings and gametypes are released, lets hope for the best.

OT: Major lulz at Kong in the MLG thread making a pot shot comment about the forge community being a bunch of H1 kids wanting H4 to be a HCE5. :stuck_out_tongue:

17

I really hope that Powerhouse is chosen in favor of The Pit, just for familiarity sake. Seeing maps that new viewers/players already know is a lot better than all the grey boxes that have been on the circuit. Sanctuary is fine, since it is just an updated Asylum.

That, and Pit is pretty terrible.

18

343 does promote MLG to some degree on their home page from time to time but it is old stuff.

It could be really nice if they’d promote the up coming event in Columbus (which could be the last one if the turn-out doesn’t do well). They can promote it simply by advertising it on their home page like they do with past broadcasts and by making a pinned post about it.

Going into full details of whats going to happen, settings and maps. Hint (towards those that don’t know)MLG now has the Anniversary maps on their circuit an got rid a lot of gray, boring, unfamiliar grey maps.

19

> In conclusion, <mark>MLG needs Halo: Reach</mark>, and Halo: Reach needs MLG but the two have split appart, leaving many dissapointed players (including myself) in limbo. The cooperation of the two organizations would have a huge effect on the attitude of Halo players, also greatly increasing the sales of Halo 4.
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Sincerely, Im 7 on the 7th

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not purposely bypass the word filter, or post spam.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

The part I highlighted is completely WRONG bro!

As much as I admire your courage and very well thought out awesome ideas, MLG does not need Lol-Reach. MLG CEO Sundance himself said “I can base my whole MLG Career on just SC2 and League of Legends!”

Those two games are the only thing holding MLG high above the other Competitive Communities. Sundance has done so much for Lol-Reach to keep it alive as long as possible and has lost millions on it, but he knows that MLG wouldn’t be what it is today if not for CE/ ESPECIALLY H2/ and H3.

Ironic how a “Halo” game now is costing MLG money to keep on the circuit and is seen as a “bad business choice”. If anything these “new” Lol-Reach kids should show their respects and support MLG instead of bashing it.

Good thread man, but tbh we should just forget Lol-Reach and just concentrate on Halo 4 since that’s the only thing that will save Halo, Lol-Reach is DEAD and we should just leave the corpse to rot and let the COD wolves fight over the scraps!

20

> Lol-Reach is DEAD and we should just leave the corpse to rot and let the COD wolves fight over the scraps!

How very non-Spartan and non-Elite.

A lot of MLG: Reach’s problems is that overall MLG poisoned their fanbase with its less than flattering, illogical and false reasoning for being Reach the “worst Halo game ever out of the gate.” Great game, -Yoink- Halo…
By misusing terminologies such as balance and symmetry, or not understanding how bloom actually works, and then spreading that ignorance, MLG players alienated their viewers because why would people watch others play things they hate and don’t understand?
If they players aren’t hyped, why would the fans be?

And no it isn’t 343i’s or Bungie’s fault. Yes it was a poor decision to not include certain TU added options that MLG could have tweaked in the first place, but it was the near complete use of fallacious arguements used in protest to those missing options that alienated MLG: Halo’s fanbase.

Using the famous SD video as an example of what I mean: The NR in arena sized maps is great for no-scoping rifle fights at almost any range. Zooming in before firing instead of no-scoping a DMR will result in short range-spam accuracy that does not reduce kill times from the expected perfect 1.6/1.7secs.
True SD has a point in that it’s not the familiar style he is used to, but the NR does offer the same style he wishes AND though he missed a couple shots himself, his missed due to bloom shots would have hit had he scoped in just before he shot. (with 400ms between DMR shots, it is possible).
Because most MLG players will not acknowledge the just explained reality of Vanilla Reach, or acknowledge the dynamic-asymmetrical layer that AAs do add, and instead simply want everything reverted back to a previous installment of Halo yet with the final addition of complete symmetry from a “utility” weapon, I do not see why I should believe MLG: Halo players know what’s best for FPSs or Halo.