343i doesnt know how to encourage teamwork.

Games Other Halo
1

This is in response to all the claims that 343i is making the flag undroppable to encourage teamwork. If this really is their reason, then there’s two things wrong with it.

#1: This is the wrong way to make teamwork.

Forcing a player down to bare minimum and removing all potential to execute skilled plays makes him almost no different than a player who just bought the game. This removes skillgap. 343i is taking the cheapway out to encourage teamwork by a good player as close to a bad player as possible, so skill has no way to show itself.

With the new flag you can no longer display the following skills as flag holder:

Gernades
Hiding
Sneakiness
Decision-making
Any weapon besides pistol
The ability to obtain power weapons and use them

Thats a good chunk of skill that is removed. Now im all for mandating teamwork, but this is NOT the method that should be taken. Want to improve teamwork by making it harder (which is actually two separate things…) to capture the flag? Then make it to where they can interact with teammates more, but make the flag guy weaker. Or change maps to where you need a couple teammates to block off enemies, or you would easily die on your own.

Point being, removing skill so that a good player cant use the skill he possesses is a shallow way to encourage teamwork.

#2: IMO, its now easier to capture the flag

Ok i know absolutes arent a good way to measure gameplay, but hear me out.

In previous halo games, you could move at about 95% speed with juggling, and at about 60-80% damage output (with dmr + time lost for dropping flag to shoot), has to face a certain way, and has a waypoint.

Now its 100% speed, 80% damage (pistol is only 1 shot weaker), can face any way, and has a waypoint.

_____New | Old
Dmg–80% | 60-80
Mvmt-100 | 80-95
Wypt-Yes | Yes
Lkwy-No | Yes

#2 is just food for thought really, but give serious consideration to #1.

Discuss and comments appreciated.

2

Another thread about this?

3

How to encourage teamwork.

Any Kill: 5xp

Objective Action: 500xp

Assist Objective Action: 250xp

Victory Bonus: 2500xp

Loss: No xp awarded

4

I watched two interviews that asked about the controversial new CTF.

Frank said “Buy the game and try it”.

The woman on G4 said “It encourages teamwork”.

Neither explained any reasoning behind it. That made me suspicious.

5

> Another thread about this?

And you just shoved it to the top of the bored, congratulations. Thx by the way.

6

> How to encourage teamwork.
>
> Any Kill: 5xp
>
> Objective Action: 500xp
>
> Assist Objective Action: 250xp
>
> Victory Bonus: 2500xp
>
> Loss: No xp awarded

Yea well all i really care about is that winning should be promoted. The funnest games i have are either ranked or when bragging rights are on the line. Or just when i notice its 49-49 and i havent been paying attention :smiley:

These make for the funnest games imo.

7

> I watched two interviews that asked about the controversial new CTF.
>
> Frank said “Buy the game and try it”.
>
> The woman on G4 said “It encourages teamwork”.
>
> Neither explained any reasoning behind it. That made me suspicious.

Yea i mean really, is an explanation too much to ask?

8

> How to encourage teamwork.
>
> Any Kill: 5xp
>
> Objective Action: 500xp
>
> Assist Objective Action: 250xp
>
> Victory Bonus: 2500xp
>
> Loss: No xp awarded

That’s great. There should still be some kind of game complete bonus just for sticking with it, but losing all that bonus xp if you don’t pull out the win would be a fantastic way of getting people to put their heads in the game.

Thing is, isn’t 343 doing just this? I don’t know that you lose the xp for not winning necessarily, but I do believe that in objective types, handling said objective gives you far more rank-up progress than just picking guys off while your team does all the leg-work.

9

> This is in response to all the claims that 343i is making the flag undroppable to encourage teamwork. If this really is their reason, then there’s two things wrong with it.
>
> #1: This is the wrong way to make teamwork.
>
> Forcing a player down to bare minimum and removing all potential to execute skilled plays makes him almost no different than a player who just bought the game. This removes skillgap. 343i is taking the cheapway out to encourage teamwork by a good player as close to a bad player as possible, so skill has no way to show itself.
>
> With the new flag you can no longer display the following skills as flag holder:
>
> Gernades
> Hiding
> Sneakiness
> Decision-making
> Any weapon besides pistol
> The ability to obtain power weapons and use them
>
> Thats a good chunk of skill that is removed. Now im all for mandating teamwork, but this is NOT the method that should be taken. Want to improve teamwork by making it harder (which is actually two separate things…) to capture the flag? Then make it to where they can interact with teammates more, but make the flag guy weaker. Or change maps to where you need a couple teammates to block off enemies, or you would easily die on your own.
>
> Point being, removing skill so that a good player cant use the skill he possesses is a shallow way to encourage teamwork.
>
>
> #2: IMO, its now easier to capture the flag
>
> Ok i know absolutes arent a good way to measure gameplay, but hear me out.
>
> In previous halo games, you could move at about 95% speed with juggling, and at about 60-80% damage output (with dmr + time lost for dropping flag to shoot), has to face a certain way, and has a waypoint.
>
> Now its 100% speed, 80% damage (pistol is only 1 shot weaker), can face any way, and has a waypoint.
>
> _____New | Old
> Dmg–80% | 60-80
> Mvmt-100 | 80-95
> Wypt-Yes | Yes
> Lkwy-No | Yes
>
> #2 is just food for thought really, but give serious consideration to #1.
>
> Discuss and comments appreciated.

what do you mean face a certain way? since when does a flag holder have to look in any direction? apart from the one they want?
also, what the hell is lkwy?

10

also, 80% damage? are u silly? there is no drop rate to compare time to aim and look at enemy, and the pistol is BUFFED from what they said in order to allow a player to still do decent damage with flag?

11

Infinity CTF is essentially a VIP hybrid. You’re saying VIP didn’t take teamwork?

12

Are people still talking about this? Not being able to drop the flag forces team mates to be near you if you plan on running it back to base. Sure, the pistol can help a bit, but to truly survive you need people backing you up, as you can no longer drop the flag and use those rockets to get an easy kill (for example).

13

> > This is in response to all the claims that 343i is making the flag undroppable to encourage teamwork. If this really is their reason, then there’s two things wrong with it.
> >
> > #1: This is the wrong way to make teamwork.
> >
> > Forcing a player down to bare minimum and removing all potential to execute skilled plays makes him almost no different than a player who just bought the game. This removes skillgap. 343i is taking the cheapway out to encourage teamwork by a good player as close to a bad player as possible, so skill has no way to show itself.
> >
> > With the new flag you can no longer display the following skills as flag holder:
> >
> > Gernades
> > Hiding
> > Sneakiness
> > Decision-making
> > Any weapon besides pistol
> > The ability to obtain power weapons and use them
> >
> > Thats a good chunk of skill that is removed. Now im all for mandating teamwork, but this is NOT the method that should be taken. Want to improve teamwork by making it harder (which is actually two separate things…) to capture the flag? Then make it to where they can interact with teammates more, but make the flag guy weaker. Or change maps to where you need a couple teammates to block off enemies, or you would easily die on your own.
> >
> > Point being, removing skill so that a good player cant use the skill he possesses is a shallow way to encourage teamwork.
> >
> >
> > #2: IMO, its now easier to capture the flag
> >
> > Ok i know absolutes arent a good way to measure gameplay, but hear me out.
> >
> > In previous halo games, you could move at about 95% speed with juggling, and at about 60-80% damage output (with dmr + time lost for dropping flag to shoot), has to face a certain way, and has a waypoint.
> >
> > Now its 100% speed, 80% damage (pistol is only 1 shot weaker), can face any way, and has a waypoint.
> >
> > _____New | Old
> > Dmg–80% | 60-80
> > Mvmt-100 | 80-95
> > Wypt-Yes | Yes
> > Lkwy-No | Yes
> >
> > #2 is just food for thought really, but give serious consideration to #1.
> >
> > Discuss and comments appreciated.
>
> what do you mean face a certain way? since when does a flag holder have to look in any direction? apart from the one they want?
> also, what the hell is lkwy?

To juggle, you have to look the way they are juggling.

And i couldnt think of a good shortening of look away. sorry.

14

> > How to encourage teamwork.
> >
> > Any Kill: 5xp
> >
> > Objective Action: 500xp
> >
> > Assist Objective Action: 250xp
> >
> > Victory Bonus: 2500xp
> >
> > Loss: No xp awarded
>
> That’s great. There should still be some kind of game complete bonus just for sticking with it, but losing all that bonus xp if you don’t pull out the win would be a fantastic way of getting people to put their heads in the game.
>
> Thing is, isn’t 343 doing just this? I don’t know that you lose the xp for not winning necessarily, but I do believe that in objective types, handling said objective gives you far more rank-up progress than just picking guys off while your team does all the leg-work.

I would also put this in conjunction with a quit-system where when a player quits they cannot join another game for 5 minutes. This would happen every time a player leaves a game before it is finished. With this system, people who quit early because they are losing or didn’t get the sniper first are punished, but people who leave for legitimate reasons aren’t, as within 5 minutes their real world issue (doorbell, phone, lag out) will be resolved.

15

> Infinity CTF is essentially a VIP hybrid. You’re saying VIP didn’t take teamwork?

Im saying that this isnt the right way to encourage teamwork.

Im also saying that its barely if any harder to cap the flag now.

16

> also, 80% damage? are u silly? there is no drop rate to compare time to aim and look at enemy, and the pistol is BUFFED from what they said in order to allow a player to still do decent damage with flag?

Great so it does even more damage?

First they make him weaker to “encourage” teamwork.

Then they make him stronger so he doesnt need it, and it becomes even easier.

I just dont get it.

17

> > Infinity CTF is essentially a VIP hybrid. You’re saying VIP didn’t take teamwork?
>
> <mark>Im saying that this isnt the right way to encourage teamwork.</mark>
>
> Im also saying that its barely if any harder to cap the flag now.

Can anyone really say what the RIGHT way to encourage teamwork is? If if you lay out an adequate system, you are still dealing with individual people who choose if they want to be teamplayers or not.

18

What worries me is that after one team gets the lead defense will be so much easier with the waypoint over the flag carrier plus sprint. I foresee many 1-0 games with the losing team continually being slaughtered attempting to tie the game.

19

> Are people still talking about this? Not being able to drop the flag forces team mates to be near you if you plan on running it back to base. Sure, the pistol can help a bit, but to truly survive you need people backing you up, as you can no longer drop the flag and use those rockets to get an easy kill (for example).

Whether you can drop the flag or not still forces teammates to be near you. I dont see how whether its on the ground near you or in your hands makes a difference. The enemy will still hunt you down.

Secondly, apparenytly you didnt read the first paragraph at all.

And thirdly, how do you think he got those rockets? He got them by displaying skill, and they were his reward. To take them away would only make up for the enemies lack of teamwork and coordination, which lost them the rockets in the first place.

20

> To juggle, you have to look the way they are juggling.
>
> And i couldnt think of a good shortening of look away. sorry.

but now u don’t have to juggle at all (yes u can’t but you are 95-100% speed anyway)