343i DOES hate Halsey after all

From the recent Bulletin:

> “Poor Catherine Halsey. Don’t get me wrong, she’s a monster. A war criminal. A woman who kidnapped and killed children because she thought the ends justified the means. But then we come along and chop off her arm simply because we wanted a spot of ambiguity in her final line. In the original draft, she was shot, but in one piece. Jul asked her what she wanted, she said, “Revenge” and everyone knew she meant on Palmer and the crew of Infinity. But we didn’t want that. Halsey is a woman who is always saying two things at once. To end on a note from her that was so clearly defined just felt wrong.
>
> So I chopped off her arm. Now she glances at her shoulder before answering Jul’s question and you have to ask: Who does she want revenge on? Palmer? Jul? Everyone?”

You know, I really didn’t hate how 343i portrayed Dr. Halsey in Halo 4. I didn’t really enjoy it either as she still reminded me way to closely of Karen Traviss’ portrayal of Halsey in her books. But THIS little quote coming from an employee of 343 Industries. The only reaction I could conjure up after reading that was this.

To me, this just reaffirms everything I had believed about 343i and their “love” and appreciation of the Halo story, as in it is very questionable. I remember when Bungie had Halo they didn’t outright tell me how to feel about Dr. Halsey, I was allowed to come to my own conclusion. I knew what she did was morally questionable, but given the circumstances I could understand why she did what she did. But like I said, I was able to come to my own conclusions as did others.

But yet under 343i’s guidance, we have Karen Traviss and 343i blatantly tell us either directly, like in the Bulletin, or through text, like Traviss, that Halsey is a bad person. We have references to the Nazis and Soviets just thrown around towards her hoping they stick. Yet what really upsets me is that despite being a company that allegedly loves and respects the Halo lore, they leave out SO MANY key details that are important to understanding Halsey as a character.

Halsey didn’t kidnap the Spartan-II candidates, ONI agents did. She did not murder them either, she did not maliciously and purposely plan out their deaths. The augmentations procedures failed and crippled some, it was heartwrenching to her and she researched constantly methods to heal them. And yes, she did believe that the Spartan-IIs were justified, but that was because a galactic-wide rebellion was going on with colonies being nuked, ships being hijacked or blown up, civilian or otherwise, and BILLIONS projected to die if the conflict continued. Seriously, this is supposed to make me think Halsey is a monster? Especially compared to what the higher ups at ONI are up to be it experimenting on the Flood to use it as a bio-weapon to planning to commit genocide on the Elites?

And then they cut off her arm simply to create ambiguity. 343i purposely set out to make Halsey look like an evil character, shove that opinion down the fanbase throats and then mutilated her. Dr. Halsey is one of my favorite characters in fiction and to see all this happen from a company I thought at one point was going to keep Halo going in a positive direction is just…depressing.

This is what I’m going to remember Halo 4 for along with my other problems with the story. If this is what they are going to do with the characters, characters that have been with Halo since the beginning, and then basically tell me, “Halsey is bad and if you like her you should feel bad!”, then I don’t know if I can support Halo any further. I’ll try my best, but the direction Halo 4 went pushes it for me.

thank you for coming up with a rational, thoughtful arguement for your opinion, I am tired of people just throwing hate on 343i only becuase the game/story didn’t live up to their expectations

Yeah, I don’t really like the way the universe is going either.

Halsey was not once referenced as being “bad” in Halo Reach, yet Halo 4 came and…

> <mark>Halsey didn’t kidnap the Spartan-II candidates, ONI agents did.</mark> She did not murder them either, she did not maliciously and purposely plan out their deaths. The augmentations procedures failed and crippled some, it was heartwrenching to her and she researched constantly methods to heal them. And yes, she did believe that the Spartan-IIs were justified, but that was because a galactic-wide rebellion was going on with colonies being nuked, ships being hijacked or blown up, civilian or otherwise, and BILLIONS projected to die if the conflict continued. Seriously, this is supposed to make me think Halsey is a monster? Especially compared to what the higher ups at ONI are up to be it experimenting on the Flood to use it as a bio-weapon to planning to commit genocide on the Elites?
>
> And then they cut off her arm simply to create ambiguity. 343i purposely set out to make Halsey look like an evil character, shove that opinion down the fanbase throats and then mutilated her. Dr. Halsey is one of my favorite characters in fiction and to see all this happen from a company I thought at one point was going to keep Halo going in a positive direction is just…depressing.
>
> This is what I’m going to remember Halo 4 for along with my other problems with the story. If this is what they are going to do with the characters, characters that have been with Halo since the beginning, and then basically tell me, “Halsey is bad and if you like her you should feel bad!”, then I don’t know if I can support Halo any further. I’ll try my best, but the direction Halo 4 went pushes it for me.

Come on Cobra. :confused: You know history that’s not how things work. I apologize before hand to the mods.

-Yoink!- was responsible for the -Yoink!-, even if he wasn’t the one doing those actions. In America we hold -Yoink!- responsible for the events of 9/11 even though he was not the one who carried out the action. Halsey may not have done the deed, but she is responsible for what happened.

Evil maybe not, but definitely not the hero many people make her out to be. She is if anything an Anti-hero who follows the laws of Ayn Rand. The means justify the actions. While I am firmly against this belief it holds some merit, and with Halsey it has proven correct. She knows she’s done bad, but she will continue to do so for the sake of progress.

343i is not making it, “If you like Halsey you should feel bad.” But simply showing that there are thousands of sides to one story.

I agree, there is no deeper story anymore. Everyone seems to be fighting for revenge with 343i behind the wheel.

After I read ‘The Fall of Reach’ Halsey became one of my favourite characters too. I’m also kind of gutted that 343i is trying to portray her as something she clearly isn’t.

I wonder whether 343i read ‘The Fall of Reach’ before making Halo 4 and Spartan Ops?

> After I read ‘The Fall of Reach’ Halsey became one of my favourite characters too. I’m also kind of gutted that 343i is trying to portray her as something she clearly isn’t.
>
> I wonder whether 343i read ‘The Fall of Reach’ before making Halo 4 and Spartan Ops?

the campaign wasn’t bad, it was SpOps that portrayed her as an evil person that should die

> 343i is not making it, “If you like Halsey you should feel bad.” But simply showing that there are thousands of sides to one story.

Did you not see the quote from the 343i employee? They see her as an antagonist.

> Come on Cobra. :confused: You know history that’s not how things work. I apologize before hand to the mods.
>
> -Yoink!- was responsible for the -Yoink!-, even if he wasn’t the one doing those actions. In America we hold -Yoink!- responsible for the events of 9/11 even though he was not the one who carried out the action. Halsey may not have done the deed, but she is responsible for what happened.

A key difference being that nobody recruited -Yoink!- to order the -Yoink!- of -Yoink!- to plan to attack America, ONI came to Halsey. ONI kidnapped the children.

> Evil maybe not, but definitely not the hero many people make her out to be. She is if anything an Anti-hero who follows the laws of Ayn Rand. The means justify the actions. While I am firmly against this belief it holds some merit, and with Halsey it has proven correct. She knows she’s done bad, but she will continue to do so for the sake of progress.

I would consider Halsey a hero because her research in the Spartan-II Program, development of MJOLNIR and Forerunner technology saved the human race. The things ONI is doing threaten the human race, after all everything they did in Glasslands and Thursday War is why Jul 'Mdama is biting them in the -Yoink- now.

> 343i is not making it, “If you like Halsey you should feel bad.” But simply showing that there are thousands of sides to one story.

They called her a monster, point blank. What else am I supposed to gleam from that?

All of this conflicts and “humans shooting humans” may be a part of the test already. A way to show, how hard is to stick together when it is needed. Maybe at the end of the trilogy, all the “powerfull” will unite to overcome the greater danger and all of this “wanting revenge” and assassination attempts will make the finish just more powerfull and emotional. I believe, 343i has the story planned well. After Halo 4 story, i do not have a reason to believe othervise.

> > 343i is not making it, “If you like Halsey you should feel bad.” But simply showing that there are thousands of sides to one story.
>
> Did you not see the quote from the 343i employee? They see her as an antagonist.

And if you know anything about literature you know antagonist =/= bad guy. It means someone opposing or hindering the protagonist. She has her motives of bringing humanity into the mantel. But currently Oni is standing in her way which in my opinion are the real antagonists.

Yea, reading that in the bulletin really bugged me. He said it really like eh just an idea that came too me and I thought it was a good idea.

Jul wanted revenge on Humans for the death of his family and close friends, as well as personal torture.

The Didact wanted revenge on Humanity because…who cares, it wasn’t explained in the game at all. (Terminals don’t count as they aren’t actually IN the game.)

Halsey wants revenge on the UNSC/Palmer for what they did to her.

Now if any of your thoughts or if 343 has any rational people writing for them, the Precursors may come back.

They want to test humanity, and have possible revenge on the Forerunners.

Am I the only person noticing this disturbing pattern? What happens if the Didact comes back, does Chief want revenge on him for destroying Cortana too?

Forget the Reclaimer Trilogy, this is the Revenge Trilogy.

Love this forum. It’s sad that 343i has to destroy old characters just to keep the story going. Really cheap of them imo.

When writing a good story, you should never think the villian as the “villian”. You should always follow the rule, “Everybody is the hero of their own story”. When you think about it, that makes total sense. Nobody is just, “evil”. Nobody wakes up thinking, “Today I’m going to go eat babies because I’m evil”.

When your story is a simple, “Stop the villian because he’s evil”, you’re just writing a lame childrens story because you think they can’t comprehend the idea that they’re not totally evil.

sounds like 343 is going to screw up the story

343 are Oni, it all makes since :)7

It’s not like she kidnapped them and just augmented them and didn’t care what happened to them. She obviously cares for John and the rest of her “children” Halsey made the Spartans something I wish I would be, a super hero.

$50 says Halsey will just end up getting a cool new cyborg arm, and she’s just messing with the storm covenanent’s heads. She probably figured that it was just a misunderstanding with the mejestic and sarah palmer.

Give her a new cyborg arm 343. She’ll be all good.

> Forget the Reclaimer Trilogy, this is the Revenge Trilogy.

It indeed looks more like a revenge trilogy than an “Reclaimer” trilogy.