Good. That’s what we need to see. “Losing profits” is about the scariest thing we can hit them with, which comes in the form of boycotting, spending our money elsewhere, litigation for false advertisement, etc. Nobody’s going to pony up for the third one so the first two, combined with very clear communication for why, are pretty much all we can do. UNLESS someone decides to put together a class-action but… even then, that’s a whole thing. I don’t even know if there’s merit but I doubt anyone has the balls to go after them. And even if we did, the best we could do is hope to get the issues of potential false advertisement (armor kits, “getting rid of fomo”, samurai armor) corrected.
I suppose there is also the alternative, trying to change laws surrounding video games, which has worked (in a way) for lootboxes in the past. Honestly I think there’s merit to making laws that prevent games from intentionally manipulating their consumers into spending more and more money. I mean I’m sure many industries do that, but I don’t know of any more blatant than microtransactions.
Yeah I don’t know why they’re arguing that this stuff ain’t predatory. It literally weaponizes FOMO (along with “bundling” to make it appear you’re getting more than you actually are) in order to manipulate consumers into buying more and more from the shop. It is intentionally exploiting people.
Either way, though, that’s a semantic argument that has literally no bearing on the conversation. “Predatory” is convenient and accurate enough a term that it’s fine enough to use. That’s the long and short of it. It gets the message across, plain and simple. I suppose “exploitative” does the job almost as well, but “predatory” just has that ring to it.
Blech, this again.
Just because others are doing it doesn’t make it okay. These games all have a monopoly on their personal market - so rather than COMPETE with each other, which would probably drive the prices down universally and be sooo much better for consumers (and there is a TON of room for competition to drive down prices and still make a profit - Fortnite’s made BILLIONS doing this) - they are just trying to get a slice of the pie.
But it isn’t going to work in Halo.
Players have expectations from previous games. Players expect that ALL armors are unlockable with pure gameplay. Games like Fortnite, Apex, etc don’t have that expectation because they’re brand new franchises. They don’t have the history. COD gets away with it because its “history” is already being a sellout.
Halo needs to pull players from those games and it probably isn’t going to happen, because Halo doesn’t appeal to the LCD of Battle Royale games: kids with zero attention span. If they want to pull players, they have to be better (a given) and DO better than those games, and that means being better to their consumers.
There’s a lot more money to be made if these transactions were micro. But they ain’t. A third of a full game for a set of armor when you only care about one piece? A quarter of a full game for a sword? These models cost, honestly, probably about what they’re being sold for PER PLAYER to make. They’re very simple, static models.
No offence, I have ADHD myself it’s a matter of seeing the bigger picture rather then actting on your impulses which in this case that was an excuse on your part
To be fair, I don’t think he said he necessarily went for it. But either way, the point was that he was feeling like they were trying to exploit him and that they might succeed - the ATTEMPT to exploit consumers is the problem. And it all comes back to FOMO practices, bundling, and price gouging. Which they can only do because they have a monopoly on their store.
It’s all preying on consumer psychology. Weaponize FOMO and severely limit progression to force the players to keep coming back so they can only spend money in YOUR store, then have a monopoly on the store and you can sell them their own hat back to them at 1000% markup. Honestly, these practices should be illegal. What is it with game companies going out of their way to find new ways to screw their consumers? It’s abhorrent.
No one’s exploiting anything the fact people believe this need to get on there medication, there toxicity and no control will bring down this game and the potentionally kind hearted 343i is putting up with
You sound like a shill. 343i is weaponizing psychology in an attempt to exploit its consumers. That is a given fact. Also, half your message is effectively unreadable.
CE: you got to choose primary colors from a fixed list.
2: you got to choose primary and secondary colors from a fixed list.
3: you got to choose primary and secondary colors from a fixed list, along with a small selection of limited armor customization, the concept of which making its debut to the franchise.
Reach: you got to choose primary and secondary color’s from a fixed list, and the introduction of the FIRST major customization suite and comprehensive list of unlockable pieces, unlockable entirely by gameplay.
4: you got to choose primary and secondary colors from a fixed list, armor customization is retained but, unlocks start to become tied to not only progression, but specific accolade criteria and waypoint challenges.
5. You got to choose primary and secondary colors from a fixed pallet, customization stomped into the dirt now only allowing you helmet and armor set choices, all cosmetics now put in lootboxes.
The “cosmetics that have always been free in Halo” didn’t exist in any meaningful way outside of 2 games. 2 games in 6, 3 if you’d like to include Halo 5 but I don’t see a lootbox grind and a huge reduction of customization as worth bragging over. Also worth noting that any and colors you decked yourself out with have been historically meaningless in much of Halo MP because you’d just be made “red” or “blue”. That customization has existed and been included in previous games is an accurate statement. That massive, free customization is intrinsic to the franchise is hyperbolic nonsense. Anyone who has been playing since CE, or even just Halo 3, has NEVER been here for the cosmetics and player expression. Anyone who came into any Halo game strictly for player expression is an extreme minority.
People play Halo to play Halo, and any insistence that we’re being “strong armed” into buying cosmetics that offer ZERO value to actual gameplay is asinine. Is the game heavy handed in trying to get people to part with their money? Without question, but its doing so on purely cosmetic items. People “needing” these things is the very definition of a “you” problem.
CoD Warzone, Apex Legends, Fortnite, and Destiny 2 would like a word with you.
What turns people off of a game is stagnation or playable content being paywalled. PLAYABLE CONTENT. If 343i starts drip feeding maps, you’re right on the money. As it stands more people will be turned off by their challenge system and limited pass offerings than cosmetics not being ingame.
I’m not sure what your professional background is but you saying stuff like this makes it incredibly hard to take you seriously. Modern technology isn’t cheaper by any stretch, it simply drives down the cost of older gen stuff. Unless you’re making a comparison to extremely old computers, no, costs have not come down on performance machines. Wages have gone up in game development over the last 15 years. Real estate has gone up nationwide over the last 15 years. Costs of utilities have gone up nationwide in the last 15 years. Value of the dollar has dropped in the last 15 years. The only thing that has gotten cheaper over time is distribution as the digital model reduces the need for physical production. In any debate on the topic exactly NO ONE has ever shared anything that substantiates that somehow in the face of rising costs across all markets, game development alone has gotten cheaper. If you’ve got something I’d love to see it. Also, and granted this will be case by case, reported development budgets RARELY involve day to day expenditures and utilities. More often than not they relate to personnel, materials, advertising, and project related production. Any operations by 343i not tied to Infinite are very likely not included in that reported figure.
No, THIS is where you lose any credibility in this discussion. How exactly do you think profit is figured? First off I never said budget divided by employees, so that’s either you not reading or you intentionally saying something inaccurate to support your non-existent point. Profit is determined by how much a product pr products make, stacked against how much costs were incurred over a period of time. This is basic econ. Games absolutely do not make more money now (per unit, which is the discussion) then they have historically, and Halos top performer in terms of units sold has Halo 3. So again, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about here.
Go back and actually read your first response to me, and my followup response. Your argument was that Microtransactions were not needed to turn a profit, I explained to you (using math, not opinion) that on a teooted budget of 500mil Infinite would have to sell roughly 8.4mil copies to break even. That’s math, not opinion. “Break even” isn’t “generate profits”, that’s economics, not opinion.
Halos main competitor is CoD, and they have been printing obscene amount amounts of money on this business model for the past few years. Apex has been successful on this model. Fortnite has been successful on this model. There is no reason to assume this model will kill Halo, none.
“I don’t like it” or “its not Halo” (literally the oldest complaint in the franchise where changes are concerned) doesn’t equate to “it’ll fail”. Being dramatic will get you ignored. If you don’t like a feature offer consumer friendly alternatives or compromises. Demanding more free stuff with your free game is not a compromise.
343 can 100% do what they want.
It’s their company, their store, their game.
We are the consumers.
We’re getting your $60 campaign and a multiplayer we can play for free. Where’s the issue there?
Just because it doesn’t have free armour for you to unlock, when a previous game did, doesn’t mean that you are entitled to it.
Someone else said that “it’s people like me that let 343 get away with this”.
Well I’d argue that we’re in this situation because of those people who would cry about a game being more than $60, forcing game companies to look for other means of making money.
Inflation is a real thing, that affects us as consumers and them as developers alike.
Not if what they’re doing was illegal, which is what I said it should be. Don’t know why you bothered stating the obvious current situation here.
That being said, they can only do this because consumers let them get away with it, ie morons who pay exorbitant prices for internet clout price everyone else out of it.
And you’d be wrong. There’s nothing forcing them to set their prices this high. There’s nothing forcing them to bundle things together so if you want an armor set made up of 8 pieces from different sets it’s going to cost you $160, and that’s if you only want one option. There’s nothing forcing them to rotate things in and out of the store so you always have to check back to see what’s there, and if you don’t buy what’s there now, you may never have the opportunity again. They can make money without these things.
But people with money instead of brains enable them. So they get away with it. As consumers, it’s our duty to hold providers to affordable prices. But the few scabs ruin it for everybody else.
You saying something should be illegal just because you don’t like it is silly.
Also, nobody is forcing you to buy anything from the store. And your opinion on the price is wholly subjective, and at your own discretion.
You want, you buy.
You think it’s overpriced, don’t buy.
I want a lot of things in life, and some of them are out of my reach in terms of what I’m willing to pay. So I don’t buy them.
I don’t whine about it, and try to make out it should be illegal.
Could items be individually purchasable? Sure. But I’m willing to bet that they’d charge more for all the items individually than the cost of the bundle. And you’d probably complain about that too.
Actually, it’s because of the monopolistic practices. Rather than using better prices or even a better quality product to increase sales, they use psychological manipulation to make you feel like you have no other options (as far as games to play) and charge whatever they want for whatever they want. It’s manipulative and should be an illegal practice.
Probably. That’s the hope. Bundles should be deals.
Ok zoomer. No need for sprint when the base movement speed is increased and map size is not increased. I’m sure you know nothing about that since you brought it up yourself in an argument about sprint. It’s also very telling how new gamers like yourself have to constantly be moving in order to feel a sense of accomplishment when playing games. Zoom here and zoom there, zoom everywhere! Makes me feel like you don’t have the genetics to be good at the OG games, maybe that’s what this is about?
I’ve just realized that out argument boils down to old vs new sales models in gaming, so let’s restart. You seem to be saying (as a whole) that these tactics are beneficial to both producer and consumer. While I am saying that they are only beneficial to the producer and detrimental to the consumer and community at large. Fair enough?
So how could you possibly see these systems a plus for anybody but 343/MS themselves? I’d really like to know.
I’m not sure how anyone could come to this conclusion given how many times I’ve personally voiced my dislike of FTP in responses to yourself and others. I’ve never argued that FTP is a good idea or consumer friendly, only that people attempting to paint 343i as a sort of villain or the situation surrounding Infinite as some unique catastrophe are not only fundamentally inaccurate in doing so, but also lack understanding of the “why” behind FTP and microtransactions.
Could be the misunderstanding is that I point out a lot of “what is” in the face of people’s complaints, but thats not being done as an endorsement, it’s being done because inaccuracies in feedback are 100% fruitless and that type of complaining drowns out meaningful feedback, of which there is a fair amount.
Again, I’ve never argued that FTP or microtransactions are beneficial to the consumer, but in a literal sense? Anyone who plays Halo because they enjoy playing Halo and aren’t caught up in an issue of principles can literally do so for free. Completely free. Halo MP for free, that’s pretty consumer friendly. Only people being held hostage by microtransactions are literally doing it to themselves, and that is a fact. It’s irritating, but it’s a fact.
The entire “predatory” argument (industry wide) relies one of two things: the assertion that the stuff behind a paywall is somehow needed, or the concept that the consumer is literally incapable of controlling themselves. While some games have been guilty of the former (and many of which have failed or lost their audience near completely) the latter is the very definition of a “you” problem, and I refuse to play victim by way of admitting I’m stupid or somehow being held hostage by FTP mechanics.
Where Infinite is concerned, if you or anyone is going to try and demand for the removal of microtransactions or any FTP mechanics, you need to offer an alternative source of considerable revenue. I say considerable because that’s what years if market research prove these measure do. The Infinite model near completely copies the CoD WZ model (outside of the pass content, which I think is a MUCH bigger issue in Infinite than simple microtransactions) and Activision has made an obscene amount of money on that model. When they launched it it “had never been done before” etc, and it didn’t just survived it thrived. 343i/MS is chasing that same dragon. Again, these aren’t endorsements, these are facts to attempt to provide context and in some cases accuracy as the hyperbole and misrepresentation of what we are or are not getting, how appropriate the pricing model is (when compared to the marketplace), or what Halo has/hasn’t done historically is turning attempted feedback to little more than base griping.
If you or anyone want to kill these practices in Infinite your only going to do that in two ways. Either offer constructive, and more consumer friendly alternatives that will still generate revenue, or gather enough people to make it fail financially. In the terms of the latter, a few dozen people on a forum being overdramatic about the issue isn’t going to overturn years of market research that shows these methods are successful. Specifically where Infinite us concerned, a lot of people are playing the crap out of this entirely free game, and will continue to do so until they get bored with it, because anyone who has ever really enjoyed playing Halo has done so because of its gameplay, not cosmetics.
At this point (a week from retail) 343i is not going to abandon FTP. It’s too late to ask people to pay $60 for a game they’re currently playing for free, and if you’re being honest you know very well that people will blow their top at paying full price for Halo in 2 pieces. Halo being $120 will go over a lot worse than Halo being $60 with FTP multiplayer. The current model is frustrating, but if we’re being honest iy is not inhibiting anyone’s ability to play the game, and play it for free.
I’m out of Halo Waypoint jail, for now. Wasn’t my intentions to get a ban. Didn’t think copy and pasting (-yoink-) would cause issues. Assumed it flagged if one actually wrote a “bad” word not suitable to ESRB 16+. But, thanks for the warning anyway. Guess I learned a lesson.
Things cost money, just because you want something doesn’t mean you get it, can’t believe you’re old enough to be on the internet and still don’t get this
Yeah I was banned for a day or two or something. I’m assuming because my post was off topic (kinda like this one is, so it’ll be my last post regarding the matter) and I copied and pasted (yoink) a bunch of times. I deleted the posts I had up, if that really was the issue (they didn’t notify me). I guess I was a little disgusted because every topic in these forums results in the same three conversations regarding customization, monetization, and progression. I don’t like some of the things about HI MP, and I was just voicing for people to be patient, but I agree there is a right and wrong way to voice that.