343 You Need to Listen to Us

Games Other Halo
1

If my name seems familiar to those who have been on the forums recently, you may have seen another thread my me titles “can Halo Get Back to Its Roots”. That thread was made in haste and i feel that a point was not clearly made. Please let me reiterate and better compose my thoughts here:

343 this is a open message to you from myself and from the community.

Halo 4 needs to change for the better or this franchise will be lost. I know you understand this, that you have been listening to us on these forums. Hell, how could you not? You said once that you yourselves were Halo fans stepping into this journey, yet you seemed to forget along the way what made this game so great.

It was its uniqueness. That moment when you put in the game, pick up the controller, you think “This is Halo”. I think at a point in development you had this feel, the things that made it Halo were there. But then you took out features, features of previous games that were a staple, A PART OF HALO.

Why? Was there a outside force, powers that be telling you what to do? That it needed some flash? Some gimmick?

It doesn’t, 343.

Halo is simple and that’s what makes it great. It’s weapons, grenades, and melee’s. The pillars of the game. It’s NOT Loadouts. It’s NOT AA’s. It’s NOT KILLSTREAKS. Those belong in another game. NOT IN HALO. Why did you guys continue this path for Halo 4? This was your chance to prove to the community that Halo is in good hands. And you failed.

Do you know why Bungie added Loadouts? It was their answer to people complaining about being spawn trapped or not getting the weapon they wanted. And it was a mistake. Gametypes should be set to a starting weapon, secondary, and 2 frag grenades. Weapons placed on map.

Believe it or not this was a very competitive game this way. Sure, on AR starts on Valhalla you were spawn trapped at your base from BR’s and Sniper Rifles;IT SUCKED. But you know what? You got tired of this and learned weapon spawns, how to hold the map from key areas, how to aim better, and how to be BETTER.

Being able to spawn with a DMR, Plasma Pistol, stickies, and a AA’s is TOO much to give the player at the start of a match and at EVERY SPAWN. You enable every player to have the best weapons and it takes away from the game. You don’t need to learn weapon spawns because you have everything you need. Vehicle in you way? No need for power weapons, just get out your Plasma Pistol and Stickies and destroy it. That’s not fun, and its NOT Halo.

Oh and don’t worry, i didn’t forget the DMR. Fricken mini-death star in the palm of your hand. What were you guys thinking? Enabling a weapon that was meant for long-range engagements to be used in any engagement? But wait you added bloom so its not that bad, right? Nope. Doesn’t make a difference with the amount of auto-aim the weapon has.

You want a solid fix for the DMR?

Lower the ROF.
Add in a set ROF.
Remove bloom

This would make the weapon excel in mid-long range and place it in its rightful place. Allow for other weapons like the BR, AR, and Carbine shine in close-mid range.

Another thing, and this is something I can’t understand why you removed. But being descoped was kinda a staple to Halo gun play 101. Why you guys took something from COD and put it into Halo baffles me. This is something that many of us have gotten used to, and being able to learn how to play around it was the mark of a skilled player. Toggling scope-in in mid-to-long range engagements was fun and challenging. Please bring this back.

And what did you guys do with the gametypes and playlists? Its like a bad joke that we lost gametypes like King of the Hill and Assault, two gametypes that have been here since Halo 2. Why remove them? And the playlist… which one of you though that Big Team Battle, the playlist for people who love bigger engagements and vehicles needed to have personal ordinance drops? Do you know how much this kills vehicle play when everyone has a power weapon?

You have already admitted you made mistakes. That you are going to fix them. And that took guts, but you need to realize that fixing this game is not something you can do at your leisure. The changes we have been asking for shouldn’t take 6 months, but then all of us will have given up and left.

Look at the good that the TU did for Reach 8 months later. Think about that, think about how much that brought the population back up.

(HINT: it didn’t)

/rant

:slight_smile:

2

Interesting post, and does portray your thoughts clearly enough to understand and agree with just about all of it.BTB has suffered immensely from the custom loadout’s, there’s no arguing that.Personal ordnance does indeed put too many power weapons in the entire teams hands.If you are on the losing team, its a miserable defeat with little chance of a comeback, its even worse if your on red team in Exile.Which has seen some of worse vehicle balance in the history of Halo.The rest is pretty self explanatory so i wont delve into it.

Hopefully with all of this feedback that the community has given 343 will allow them to make Halo 5 incredible, if they utilize it the right way.

3

Hopefully. And you know 343 added some amazing things to this game that would have made the game amazing if they were the only changes/additions.

Things like Spartan Ops is pretty innovative for the franchise. I mean weekly downloadable episodes that continue the story after the single player? Pretty awesome. And while the gameplay was lack-luster and repetitive, it still was a great achievement.

Other things like being able to assassinate with the Flag and Oddball are great additions. Improved vehicle handling and health from previous games. Although with Infinity rules and Loadout balancing issues, it really negatively affects their overall use and fun.

I feel that if these changes were made, the game would be perfect:

*Remove the Boltshot from Loadouts and make it a Personal Ordinance drop on small/mid range maps.
*Remove stickies from Loadouts.
*Remove scope flinch.
*Bring back descoping when hit/damaged
*Power weapons and Power-Ups spawn on map like in previous games.
*Remove Power weapons and Power-ups from Personal Ordinance Drops.
*Make the DMR a set ROF and make it fire slower(detailed in OP).
*Increase vehicle health on the Warthog so that 2 stickies does not destroy it.
*Increase Ghost health.
*Remove Mantis from Ragnarok.
*Make the Pistol a set ROF and the same ROF as the BR, just less range.

4

Umm i’m sorry but i don’t think 343 cares what you say about halo 4, And i’m on 343’s side. There’s Nothing wrong with the following.

  1. What’s wrong with loadouts. I like them it allows me to spawn with different weapons and not just the one it game mode spawns me with. I can choose ether Automatics, Precision rifles, Covenant weapons, Forerunner weapons, etc. I can even any armor ability or perk to suit my play style. You just don’t like them just because of we can start with stuff like the DMR, Plasma grenades, Boltshot(Its nerfed) Plsma Pistol(IN BTB), & Active Camo. Just because we can start with overused useful items doesn’t give you or anybody else an excuse to say that loadouts don’t belong in Hlo. loadouts are now a stable in current FPS games and i like loadouts it adds more Variety.

2.Whats wrong Armor Abilities. They grant players special abilities taht can help them out in the battlefield this is a new thing for the Halo series and can belong in Halo. Sure some of them were unbalnced in reach but at least in this game its more improved and balanced. IS Active Camo players -Yoink!- you off. I know it could use a nerf in Multiplayer but seriously Armor Abilities are not a bad thing in Halo.

3.Whats wrong with personal Ordenace?
It only appears in infinity Slayer(AND Infinity CTF aswell.) Its not like killstreaks. Cause you don’t summon air support to easily assist you or need a select amount of kills without dying to earn them. You just get Power weapons thats all. How about we ask for a Slayer playlist that include them instead.

4.Whats wrong with ‘NO Descope on hit.’ I don’t see anything wrong with it. Its a good thing i can no longer descope when i get hit. What people are easily killing you cause you can’t force them to descope when you hit them? Just Learn to get better. And we’re Spartans we should be strong enough to stay in Scope upon hit.

The only thing i agree on is the DMR but thats it. 343 doesn’t need to remove those features just because you and some other people believe its not halo. This is Halo 4. Not Halo 2 or 3. And yes i’m aware they didn’t include some gametypes liek Assault, Juggernaut, etc. But they didn’t remove them they just forgot to include them and its their first game of course they’re not gonna get everything right at their first try. And BTW They didn’t remove King of teh Hill. Its still in this game you idiot.

So if you want this game to have a older Halo experience…Just play the Team Throwdown playlist its fun.

5

> I feel that if these changes were made, the game would be perfect:
>
> *Remove the Boltshot from Loadouts and make it a Personal Ordinance drop on small/mid range maps. NO! Didn’t you hear they nerfed it.
> *Remove stickies from Loadouts. NO!
> *Remove scope flinch. NO!
> *Bring back descoping when hit/damaged. Unless if its a New Setting/Perk then NO!
> *Power weapons and Power-Ups spawn on map like in previous games. Ah it still does but sure why not.
> *Remove Power weapons and Power-ups from Personal Ordinance Drops. NO!
> *Make the DMR a set ROF and make it fire slower(detailed in OP). Sure i guess.
> *Increase vehicle health on the Warthog so that 2 stickies does not destroy it.Sure
> *Increase Ghost health. Sure
> *Remove Mantis from Ragnarok. NO
> *Make the Pistol a set ROF and the same ROF as the BR, just less range. What?

Okay seriously no this game would’nt be perfect if it made most of these changes.

6

> Why? Was there a outside force, powers that be telling you what to do? That it needed some flash? Some gimmick?
>
> It doesn’t, 343.

Stopped reading there. Halo 3 has a gimmick. Equipment anyone? Much of the gameplay was based of equipment.

7

The fastest was to get people not to listen to you is to tell people what the “NEED” to do.

8

I prefer Halo 4 to Halo 3 to be honest. Halo 3 was the first game I got when I came from the dark side of the GameCube, and while it was fun it got repetitive for me. Reach was better then 3 to me because with loadouts it started to add more variety, it was more than “Game starts, people rush the power weapons they want, game proceeds, every once in a while someone grabs a different gun or waits for a new power weapon to spawn.” It’s gotten even better in Halo 4. Now with ordinance drops there’s never a guarantee what you’ll get or what the enemies will have. You have to be able to adapt to each new challenge as it comes find ways get people to fight on your terms where your weapons will have the advantage before they trick you into fighting in theirs. It’s another layer of skill required, it’s not just having better reflexes or thumbs anymore, outsmarting someone is just as important, and being aware of the map and who and what’s on it are more important than ever. It’s not just people playing the same games they’ve played a thousand before on auto-pilot.

9

Meh, in ways I agree but game has been made, a lot of the things you want changed cannot happen through an update.

10

anyone that says there is nothing wrong with halo 4 is not a true halo player. 343 really do need to step up

11

Personal ordinance is a problem because it allows for half the team at one time holding at least one power weapon. In btb it limits all the fun vehicle play. Not since Reach have I been able to go on long killstreaks gunning in the hog. The maps weren’t designed for the dmr and because of that when you don’t have bloom and the five shot kill the dmr will dominate.
Loadouts really suck how they are now. Why not just have one mod, choose 2 primaries have us pick up grenades automatically after starting with 2 frags and let us pick the armor abilities(those I don’t have a problem with). That way you don’t have to worry about the plasma pistol and boltshot and plasma nades. They also need to add things back into the sandbox. I give them that the campaign was great, spartan ops was really good start and some forge features are useful. These are ultimately overshadowed by the lack of the vehicles and weapons from the past games. Only 8 vehicles in Halo 4??? Reach at least had nine and those were fun to use and had some durability in large open maps. These maps are way too small for good vehicle play, but to big for good infantry play. They don’t fit other than I’d say Ragnarok and that was basically designed for them(which is why its always picked). All they need to do to add to the game is release free or low cost dlc because they should’ve had this at launch.

343i shouldn’t care about what we say? That is complete and other crap, if anything we shouldn’t care about what they do until they start solving these problems. They may be the developer, but the game isn’t just theirs, we all bought the game and we want it to be the best it can be. That’s why we are on here, in my opinion of course.

12

i know you say the AR start is balanced and all but… the game flows and plays better when you spawn with the BR instead of AR (and you go around and collect weapons on the map as usual anyway)

13

No, 343 should not listen to us.

Why? Too many damn people are whining babies. They need to look at what we complain about, decide if the complaint is valid or just shenanigans, and look at it objectively to see if it could work better in the restraints of the game. a

14

> > I feel that if these changes were made, the game would be perfect:
> >
> > *Remove the Boltshot from Loadouts and make it a Personal Ordinance drop on small/mid range maps. NO! Didn’t you hear they nerfed it.
> > *Remove stickies from Loadouts. NO!
> > *Remove scope flinch. NO!
> > *Bring back descoping when hit/damaged. Unless if its a New Setting/Perk then NO!
> > *Power weapons and Power-Ups spawn on map like in previous games. Ah it still does but sure why not.
> > *Remove Power weapons and Power-ups from Personal Ordinance Drops. NO!
> > *Make the DMR a set ROF and make it fire slower(detailed in OP). Sure i guess.
> > *Increase vehicle health on the Warthog so that 2 stickies does not destroy it.Sure
> > *Increase Ghost health. Sure
> > *Remove Mantis from Ragnarok. NO
> > *Make the Pistol a set ROF and the same ROF as the BR, just less range. What?
>
> Okay seriously no this game would’nt be perfect if it made most of these changes.

No it wouldn’t be perfect I agree with you, but it would be hell of a lot better than it currently is

> > Why? Was there a outside force, powers that be telling you what to do? That it needed some flash? Some gimmick?
> >
> > It doesn’t, 343.
>
> Stopped reading there. Halo 3 has a gimmick. Equipment anyone? Much of the gameplay was based of equipment.

You do remember that you couldn’t spawn with equipment! And that is was placed on strategic spots on the map, just like the weapons.

15

> Umm i’m sorry but i don’t think 343 cares what you say about halo 4, And i’m on 343’s side. There’s Nothing wrong with the following.
>
> 1. What’s wrong with loadouts. I like them it allows me to spawn with different weapons and not just the one it game mode spawns me with. I can choose ether Automatics, Precision rifles, Covenant weapons, Forerunner weapons, etc. I can even any armor ability or perk to suit my play style. You just don’t like them just because of we can start with stuff like the DMR, Plasma grenades, Boltshot(Its nerfed) Plsma Pistol(IN BTB), & Active Camo. Just because we can start with overused useful items doesn’t give you or anybody else an excuse to say that loadouts don’t belong in Hlo. loadouts are now a stable in current FPS games and i like loadouts it adds more Variety.
>
> 2.Whats wrong Armor Abilities. They grant players special abilities taht can help them out in the battlefield this is a new thing for the Halo series and can belong in Halo. Sure some of them were unbalnced in reach but at least in this game its more improved and balanced. IS Active Camo players -Yoink!- you off. I know it could use a nerf in Multiplayer but seriously Armor Abilities are not a bad thing in Halo.
>
> 3.Whats wrong with personal Ordenace?
> It only appears in infinity Slayer(AND Infinity CTF aswell.) Its not like killstreaks. Cause you don’t summon air support to easily assist you or need a select amount of kills without dying to earn them. You just get Power weapons thats all. How about we ask for a Slayer playlist that include them instead.
>
> 4.Whats wrong with ‘NO Descope on hit.’ I don’t see anything wrong with it. Its a good thing i can no longer descope when i get hit. What people are easily killing you cause you can’t force them to descope when you hit them? Just Learn to get better. And we’re Spartans we should be strong enough to stay in Scope upon hit.
>
> The only thing i agree on is the DMR but thats it. 343 doesn’t need to remove those features just because you and some other people believe its not halo. This is Halo 4. Not Halo 2 or 3. And yes i’m aware they didn’t include some gametypes liek Assault, Juggernaut, etc. But they didn’t remove them they just forgot to include them and its their first game of course they’re not gonna get everything right at their first try. And BTW They didn’t remove King of teh Hill. Its still in this game you idiot.
>
> So if you want this game to have a older Halo experience…Just play the Team Throwdown playlist its fun.

1: Loadouts allow every player to spawn with any weapon. You’re right to say it adds variety, and that can be a good thing. But it ultimately lowers the skill gap by giving everyone the most powerful weapons, and unlevels the playling field, which is a terrible idea for an arena shooter like Halo. It doesn’t belong because it forces random encounters, and makes it so finding other weapons is unnecessary in a game. Which is completely ridiculous for a game like Halo, where you are supposed to earn your weapons.

2: Armor Abilities give players special abilities that unlevel the playing field and give players an advantage that they don’t deserve in a firefight. They lower the skill gap immensely by letting players use an unforeseen tactic in a battle, thus making encounters random and unfair. Halo has always been about player skill, not who has the better super power.

3: Personal Ordnance gives everyone a power weapon for doing nothing significant. It was implemented to make worse players feel like they were important, and to give them an advantage against better players by handing them a power weapon they didn’t necessarily earn. In previous Halo games, you had to control power weapons, now it’s a completely random perk based on points that are added up for stupid “achievements” in game. Also, it forces random encounters that give everyone a chance no matter the skill (lower skill gap), and unlevels the playing field.

4: Flinch (not getting knocked out of scope) makes the sniper, DMR, and Binary rifle absolutely unstoppable in the hands of a good player. It makes it so you can constantly aim and keep your composure in a firefight with ever weapon in the game, and makes the use of such weapons significantly less skillful than previous halo games (lower skill gap). Also, in a situation where it is Sniper v sniper/DMR V DMR, the person that gets the first shot wins almost every single time, which is ridiculous.

This is not their first Halo game. there are multiple Bungie Employees that are on 343i’s development team, and they have been around since CE. They know exactly what the Halo Formula is and has been, and to say this is their first game and they are going to make mistakes is a poor excuse for them. They threw everything that made Halo Halo out the window to replace it with features they had hoped would bring back players from COD, thus alienating their fanbase completely. What they somehow didn’t understand, was that COD fans don’t like Halo, and no matter how much the two are alike they wouldn’t switch. Why play Halo: COD edition when they can just play COD? They won’t.

Halo was always meant to be played on a level playing field, with everyone having to use individual skill and smarts to best their opponent. It has always been a very violent chess game, where core mechanics were the most important part of the game. From gunplay to movement to the way you handled objectives. It was all part of a very simple formula meant to weed out the worse players and put the best on top. but now, that has been completely and utterly obliterated. There is no skill gap to be found. The game is completely random. There is no level playing field. Hell, the throwdown playlist should be fantastic, but it’s not. Know why? Because the massive aim assit and magnetism has destroyed the skill gap, and now it’s come down to who has the best connection and who get’s the first shot. No more strafing, no more map control, no more anything. It’s disgusting.

I don’t know why you agree with everything 343 has done, but I can only assume you have played a lot of COD.

16

> I prefer Halo 4 to Halo 3 to be honest. Halo 3 was the first game I got when I came from the dark side of the GameCube, and while it was fun it got repetitive for me. Reach was better then 3 to me because with loadouts it started to add more variety, it was more than “Game starts, people rush the power weapons they want, game proceeds, every once in a while someone grabs a different gun or waits for a new power weapon to spawn.” It’s gotten even better in Halo 4. Now with ordinance drops there’s never a guarantee what you’ll get or what the enemies will have. You have to be able to adapt to each new challenge as it comes find ways get people to fight on your terms where your weapons will have the advantage before they trick you into fighting in theirs. It’s another layer of skill required, it’s not just having better reflexes or thumbs anymore, outsmarting someone is just as important, and being aware of the map and who and what’s on it are more important than ever. It’s not just people playing the same games they’ve played a thousand before on auto-pilot.

Not skill. You’re confusing skill with random occurances that make it so you never know what you’ll run into.