343, You Can't Cater to Both Types of Fans

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Halo 5 was even more divisive than Halo 4. We can mostly agree that Halo 4 was awful. Its strange, where did all the Halo 4 lovers go? Anyways, neither side is getting headway. Its obvious 343 prefers this new state of Halo and only adds in these old elements probably for fan service and to retain us as players. Let me sum up both camps:

The veterans
(YOU DONT COUNT AS A VETERAN IF YOU HAVE STARTED PLAYING THE TRILOGY AFTER 2011. How do you judge a game from 2001 from a 2011 view? Yes, I know it says I’ve started playing Halo 3 in 2013, but I assure you, I never started playing it on this account. I first played it around 2008 I believe. Halo 1- PC 2004, Halo 2 PC 2007.
Anyways, with each passing day, us veterans get less and less say as more and more of us leave the franchise (as seen by the big population drop from 3 to now–Don’t even cite Bravo’s new claims, we don’t even know how he got them.) We are getting pushed out little by little as more new elements are constantly added that don’t resemble the Halo we knew from 2001-2007. Yes, Halo 5 has some retro elements, but you would be pretty foolish if you believe that Halo 5 is geared around a traditional Halo experience rather than a new one. Eventually, I think more and more of us will leave the franchise, especially if Halo 6 turns out similar to Halo 5 (good chance). We won’t have a say, and this probably our one last chance for 343 to hear us out before most of the veterans leave as they already are.

The new generation
These people started from Reach, 4, or 5. The most annoying of them all are the people who started playing Halo from Halo 5, and never played any other Halo. These people believe they know what they are talking about, while they don’t realize Halo is a 15-year franchise, while they only have played one title in the franchise for less than a year (Halo 5). Moving on, the new generation probably makes up more and more of the current Halo population, and will likely do so. This is seen by the huge change on Waypoint where most of the users on here probably prefer the new Halo compared to Waypoint 4 years ago where most of the forums were composed of the veterans. The new generation is going to easily become 80% of the Halo population in a few years. You can already see it on the forums where one veteran might make a point, but a counterpoint from a new generation fan will easily gain the same amount of likes or more. This may show that many more people favor the POV of the new generation.

BTW, new generation, stop claiming that Halo 1-3 are “too slow, too ugly, little armor customization, blah blah.” Judge a game from the time it came out. You think a game like Halo 3, literally 9 years old, could’ve shipped with 200 different armors? Imagine me trying to judge 1995 Doom from a 2016 POV. “Horrible graphics, short and awful story, too linear, blah blah” that’s basically what you are doing if you played the trilogy past 2010 and started to berate it. There is a reason all three games had 93+ metacritic ratings (VERY HIGH)

343, you can’t pull a Halo 5 and try to appease both sides of Halo.
Examples:
Rocket Launcher -IF IT HAD JUST BEEN SPNKR, no one would’ve complained… no one was begging for a new rocket launcher, or so I believe…
Wraith------No one asked for the new design, but if they did they got it.
Sprint–The no recharge was not enough of a compromise. Much more needs to be done on this.
Armor abilities- Same as sprint. Too many people like them, too many people hate them.
Art theme–No one hated the old art style, plus bring back blood! No one asked for a new art style. If they kept it as old, no one would’ve started to complain.
Characters in Campaign- For us veterans, seeing Arby n the Chief reunited was something we looked forward to… Oh wait, it never even happened in the campaign. You can’t try to appease the old veterans by featuring Arbiter and the Chief, but at the same time shine the spotlight at fireteam…I don’t even know their name.

This middle of the road path isn’t going to work in Halo 6, Halo Wars 2, or any other game. 343, follow through with one path. Stick with the old, and stop with all the arguing because no one complained about the old stuff but only appease to the now-minority of veteran players, or go with the new, have some arguing from the veterans, but ultimately sustain the now-larger portion that is composed of the new generation.

2

I am a part of new generation and don’t like the way Halo is approaching. I played the Halo trilogy from The Master Chief Collection. There, Halo felt different, unique from other games. Now, Halo is just another generic fast paced complex shooter. Halo needs simplicity back on its gameplay.

I personally think the compromise on sprint is very dumb. Why are we being punished for sprinting? It has to be either removed or no punishment. No compromise between them, compromise never pleases everyone and bring another debate later.

3

Well if you don’t like change. No one is stopping you from playing Destiny.

4

I’m in a weird state where I started with Halo 2 around 2004-2005, but the first online multiplayer experience I had was Halo 4. Does that make me a vet or new gen?
Edit: I agree that Halo is going down a path I don’t like because less and less importance is placed on the campaign and story as earlier games.

5

> 2535438437962691;3:
> Well if you don’t like change. No one is stopping you from playing Destiny.

Because kicking out people who like franchises for the established core gameplay is a great way to maintain population and reputation.

6

> 2533274941914032;4:
> I’m in a weird state where I started with Halo 2 around 2004-2005, but the first online multiplayer experience I had was Halo 4. Does that make me a vet or new gen?

He is talking about both campaign and multiplayer as a whole, I think you are veteran.

7

> 2533274817976264;1:
> Halo 5 was even more divisive than Halo 4. We can mostly agree that Halo 4 was awful. Its strange, where did all the Halo 4 lovers go? Anyways, neither side is getting headway. Its obvious 343 prefers this new state of Halo and only adds in these old elements probably for fan service and to retain us as players. Let me sum up both camps:
>
> The veterans
> (YOU DONT COUNT AS A VETERAN IF YOU HAVE STARTED PLAYING THE TRILOGY AFTER 2011. How do you judge a game from 2001 from a 2011 view? Yes, I know it says I’ve started playing Halo 3 in 2013, but I assure you, I never started playing it on this account. I first played it around 2008 I believe. Halo 1- PC 2004, Halo 2 PC 2007.
> Anyways, with each passing day, us veterans get less and less say as more and more of us leave the franchise (as seen by the big population drop from 3 to now–Don’t even cite Bravo’s new claims, we don’t even know how he got them.) We are getting pushed out little by little as more new elements are constantly added that don’t resemble the Halo we knew from 2001-2007. Yes, Halo 5 has some retro elements, but you would be pretty foolish if you believe that Halo 5 is geared around a traditional Halo experience rather than a new one. Eventually, I think more and more of us will leave the franchise, especially if Halo 6 turns out similar to Halo 5 (good chance). We won’t have a say, and this probably our one last chance for 343 to hear us out before most of the veterans leave as they already are.
>
> The new generation
> These people started from Reach, 4, or 5. The most annoying of them all are the people who started playing Halo from Halo 5, and never played any other Halo. These people believe they know what they are talking about, while they don’t realize Halo is a 15-year franchise, while they only have played one title in the franchise for less than a year (Halo 5). Moving on, the new generation probably makes up more and more of the current Halo population, and will likely do so. This is seen by the huge change on Waypoint where most of the users on here probably prefer the new Halo compared to Waypoint 4 years ago where most of the forums were composed of the veterans. The new generation is going to easily become 80% of the Halo population in a few years. You can already see it on the forums where one veteran might make a point, but a counterpoint from a new generation fan will easily gain the same amount of likes or more. This may show that many more people favor the POV of the new generation.
>
> BTW, new generation, stop claiming that Halo 1-3 are “too slow, too ugly, little armor customization, blah blah.” Judge a game from the time it came out. You think a game like Halo 3, literally 9 years old, could’ve shipped with 200 different armors? Imagine me trying to judge 1995 Doom from a 2016 POV. “Horrible graphics, short and awful story, too linear, blah blah” that’s basically what you are doing if you played the trilogy past 2010 and started to berate it. There is a reason all three games had 93+ metacritic ratings (VERY HIGH)
>
> 343, you can’t pull a Halo 5 and try to appease both sides of Halo.
> Examples:
> Rocket Launcher -IF IT HAD JUST BEEN SPNKR, no one would’ve complained… no one was begging for a new rocket launcher, or so I believe…
> Wraith------No one asked for the new design, but if they did they got it.
> Sprint–The no recharge was not enough of a compromise. Much more needs to be done on this.
> Armor abilities- Same as sprint. Too many people like them, too many people hate them.
> Art theme–No one hated the old art style, plus bring back blood! No one asked for a new art style. If they kept it as old, no one would’ve started to complain.
> Characters in Campaign- For us veterans, seeing Arby n the Chief reunited was something we looked forward to… Oh wait, it never even happened in the campaign. You can’t try to appease the old veterans by featuring Arbiter and the Chief, but at the same time shine the spotlight at fireteam…I don’t even know their name.
>
> This middle of the road path isn’t going to work in Halo 6, Halo Wars 2, or any other game. 343, follow through with one path. Stick with the old, and stop with all the arguing because no one complained about the old stuff but only appease to the now-minority of veteran players, or go with the new, have some arguing from the veterans, but ultimately sustain the now-larger portion that is composed of the new generation.

As a halo veteran, played since CE. H5 is the game I’ve enjoyed the most since 3. It has many flaws: the lack of core game modes, social playlists, etc. Mechanically on the other hand it is pretty sound. It has returned to its core as an arena shooter with even starts. Simply put, there is no way for you to determine or make a claim as to why older players have left the franchise. Most of the ones I know tended to do it for two reasons: Lack of financial ability to continue playing or lack of time due to work/family commitments. That is my personal experience, I can’t generalize that to any players besides those I know. I agree with you that taking a middle ground isn’t the way to go. 343 need to focus on making a solid game with a good campaign that ships complete regardless of what the varying factions want.

8

Build the game that casuals can have fun in, the Esports/MLG/Tryhards will figure out how to tailor it to their needs all by themselves.
Also I was playing HCE before H2 was released and I prefer modernizing Halo instead of staying trapped in a rehash of H2/H3 BR or Die Halo.

9

I started playing halo after reach and I went back and purchased halo 3 and really enjoyed it, however I didn’t play a huge chunk of it since a whole bunch of my friends got halo reach. When the master chief collection came out, I got to play a larger chunk of the halo 3 experience and I can say that I really liked it. As a relatively new player, I liked that you couldn’t sprint and when the game got difficult, I realized that I had to get my -Yoink- handed to me a lot of times before I could get a handle on things. Halo 5 is the first halo game that I have done well with stat wise and while I enjoy the game, I understand wholeheartedly why series veterans want a sprint free halo and a halo that returns to what made the franchise great. Halo 3 was great, even though I didn’t get to be there at its peak, it’s quality shines through, and the same can be said for halo 2. This is also the reason why I stopped playing and traded in halo 4 for some money to buy other games. Halo 5 shows that 343 can make a competent halo game, but in order to better the franchise as a whole, they have to agnowledge bungie’s legacy of skillful gameplay and great storytelling. 343 should also loosen the iron grip they have on competitive play. Make a game that both casuals and competitive players can enjoy in their own way. Plus, 343 needs to stop fixing things that are not broken, don’t put the 343 spin on everything in halo, give the new game modes (warzone) the 343 coat of paint and the classic game modes need to be left untouched.

10

I think if they keep current gameplay but go back to the old gritty dark art style them the game would be pretty sweet.

11

343’s plan is to annoy veterans as much as possible so we leave and they can turn halo into another basic shooter. We’ve already got loadouts, ads, and a crapy campaign. Kind sounds like COD AW with some halo stuff. The 343 blind fans don’t help either.

12

I just want to touch in on the fact that I, a Halo player since 2001, I’m 26 now, have never liked Halo multiplayer without my IRL friends to play with on split screen. Now that my friends have either moved away, stopped gaming, or gave up on shooters. my only option is to play alone, and Halo Reach and 4 were the only good multiplayer experiences I had because I didn’t need to rely on outside help to win. It was casual, and a lot of fun. The games should have stuck in that direction, not this over competitive nonsense. I liked loadouts, armor abilities, everything about infinity slayer was just more fun.

Halo 2 had the best multiplayer experience because I had friends to play with and the game wasn’t afraid to take risks. It’s funny because we thought of the idea for a lot of the stuff in infinity slayer when we were teenagers as really cool “what if” scenarios.

Halo 3 destroyed all that, and was the second worst multiplayer experience of my life next to Halo 5. It WAS slow and clunky, and ALL the customization SUCKED. They even made the elites look stupid (Halo 2 elites look perfect) and everything was way too competitive looking back on it. Even the Halo 2 ranked playlists weren’t that sweaty and salty.

Gone are the days when Halo used to be about blowing someone up with a rocket launcher and having a good time. Now Halo is all about Skill gap, BR spread, Time To Kill, and sucking all the fun out of Halo.

This community doesn’t seem to remember Halo want about That. It was about being able to log in with a friend, blowing stuff up, and making a really big mess. If infinity slayer wasn’t removed from Halo 4’s matchmaking I’d at least have 2 more people to play with, whom are also older veteran players like myself, and they think the same thing about all this.

13

I’m a veteran, even by your arbitrary standards, and I like the direction H5 has taken with multiplayer.

I’m not a “blind fan” either. I didn’t like the direction Halo went with Reach or H4, but here I am, liking H5.

It’s not fair to assume that the old blood wants the same old Halo time and time again, or that we are against any/all of the changes 343i employs.

14

Halo 3 catered to both “pro” and “casual” crowds, and it was a resounding success. It can be done; it just has to be done right to work.
And while Halo 4 had its faults, I’d hardly call it awful.

15

Back to the rocket launcher design huh?

16

> 2533274809541057;13:
> I’m a veteran, even by your arbitrary standards, and I like the direction H5 has taken with multiplayer.
>
> I’m not a “blind fan” either. I didn’t like the direction Halo went with Reach or H4, but here I am, liking H5.
>
> It’s not fair to assume that the old blood wants the same old Halo time and time again, or that we are against any/all of the changes 343i employs.

Exactly.

17

> 2535468736393090;11:
> 343’s plan is to annoy veterans as much as possible so we leave and they can turn halo into another basic shooter. We’ve already got loadouts, ads, and a crapy campaign. Kind sounds like COD AW with some halo stuff. The 343 blind fans don’t help either.

I don’t see what’s wrong with warzone having loadouts.

18

I started playing in 2004 shortly before Halo 2’s release, but I didn’t get into the multiplayer until 2008 with Halo 3. I like the direction 343 is going with the new Spartan Abilities. To me it feels fresh and unique. I think sprint is over-rated, but I don’t hate it. To me the biggest change has been the tone of the story. Halo has always been about mystery and adventure with the threat of impending doom hanging overhead. Halo 5 doesn’t capture any of these feelings at all. If 343 needs guidance on how to set the tone for future Halo games, look at Halo: Reach. The covenant were portrayed as a daunting opponent and the entire theme was base on brotherhood, survival, and self-sacrifice. So if anything, 343 needs to change the direction of the story.

19

> 2535438437962691;3:
> Well if you don’t like change. No one is stopping you from playing Destiny.

see? It’s the new fans strange mentality. You think I want to play Destiny? I play Halo for a reason. If I wanted to play Destiny, I wouldn’t be on here would I? My goodness, anything that is even remotely critical to Halo is always countered by “go play Destiny.” A real fan would look at the bigger picture, and instead of pushing out other fans (especially veterans) try to work with them to help solve problems, but no, that’s just not how it works with the wierd mentality people have on these forums.

20

Well that’s quite the clickbait title followed by a wall.

Okay, well let’s take a look and… oh wow lots of stuff in here. I don’t even know where to begin… hmm… I guess top to bottom is the natural way…

  • I’m not even going to bother with your BS idea of what a veteran Halo player should be decided by. Hmmm… I started playing with Halo 2 in 2004. I’m a veteran. OP is talking for me, acting like he knows how my brain works and what my thoughts are. Even though they are wrong. Halo 5 plays closer to Halo 3 than Reach and 4 wish they ever could and is probably one of the best Arena shooters to come out in recent years, what 343i was aiming for. If I wasn’t so tired I’d argue with you more about this, but I’m about ready to use my keyboard as a pillow. - Some of those “People who act like they know Halo but only played 5” are on eSports teams. Pretty sure they know Halo. And just because someone started with Reach doesn’t mean they couldn’t go back and play 3, ODST, Wars, CE, or 2. Three of those can be played on the 360. CE’s campaign is on 360. CE & 2 are on PC and still have active communities. There’s plenty of veterans on Waypoint, I don’t know what Waypoint you visit but it’s clearly not this one. So because one guy made a point and someone made a good counterpoint there’s more of one type of player than there is another? Okay? Um, okay? - lol at saying the old Halo games played slow because they were released in 2001-2007. CoD came out in that same time, fast as hell. Doom and Quake pre-dated them by more than half a decade, two of the fasted games you can ask for. I don’t know where you got the idea that people call the graphics ugly, everyone knows what years the games released. People want more customization as the games grow, why would they complain about that? Again, I think you and everyone else visits different Waypoints.

I’m too tired to go in-depth with this.Long story made short, you’re wrong. So very very wrong. In so many ways.