> 2533274802394980;78:
> > 2533274933770910;77:
> > > 2533274802394980;76:
> > > > 2533274933770910;74:
> > > > > 2535434853201329;70:
> > > > > That makes no sense. Aim assist is absolutely essential for controller players to be competitive against keyboard and mouse players. Controller has no where near the precision of KB+M, hence why it needs stronger aim assist than the flight with its nearly non-existent aim assist on controller. It sounds like you just want an unfair advantage over controller players.
> > > >
> > > > As a controller player I don’t want more aim assist. The point is that 343 will separate players on the basis of input type in ranked matches.
> > > >
> > > > You don’t need to play competitive ranked matches against mouse and keyboard players.
> > > >
> > > > When you are only facing other controller players, the best aim will win. As it should.
> > >
> > > The game has to be fun first, not competitive first. Unless you want your player base to be formed only by a bunch of elitist pros. Aiming like this is a chore, as it was a sweat fest in halo 5.
> > > Halo became competitive because people find deepness, brilliant sandbox and evolved game mechanics into a fun to play game. It’s not a game about pigeon shooting.
> >
> > The weaker aim assist of Halo Infinite is not making it any less fun. The response to the technical test was overwhelmingly positive so clearly people were having fun in non-competitive setting with that amount of aim assist.
> >
> > Halo 5 has a significantly stronger aim assist. The H5 pistol pretty much locks into enemy heads when within red reticle range. So I don’t understand your argument there.
> >
> > Lastly, I don’t think we should start seeing good players or good aim being a bad thing. If someone wants to put their time into practising aiming, they should be rewarded for it. I don’t understand the negative sentiments against people who become good at a video game, especially if its without -Yoink!-.
>
> You could clearly notice good players even in previous halo, even with a less taxing aiming system. The point is to make a game accessible, and make it competitive thanks to the deepness of its mechanics, not through making harder one of its basic components.
I don’t think the weaker aim assist is making the game harder per se. It might mean that people will land less sniper rifle shots, but I think that is better for overall game balance.
Also, bots and shooting range are making the game more accessible. Some people might prefer to only play against bots. Both of these features are also helping people to learn to aim better.
> 2533274796540656;65:
> > 2533274885506317;61:
> > > 2535438636443468;59:
> > > > 2533274796540656;58:
> > > > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > >
> > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > >
> > > > If this were actually true then I’d have expected to see at least one M&K player at the Halo Reach PC tournament they held after the release of MCC on PC, but guess what? There weren’t any. They were all controller players.
> > >
> > > My point exactly, Mouse and Keyboard isn’t better if everyone playing at high levels choose Controller instead.
> >
> > sorry, but they will be turning it up for sure. Console players will always be the majority and they won’t want to alienate so many of their gamers Plus halo will always be first and foremost a Console game. Yes Its great that we have PC players now but it has its downsides. Not only does it have whinging toolbags upset because their master race pcs are being beaten by a controller But also we see cheaters coming from Pc. Its no wonder most console gamers will turn crossplay off no doubt.
>
> You were only the majority in the past because the game was a console exclusive. Now that the newest iteration of the game is coming to PC, will you still be the majority? I’d imagine 343 will want to appease the streamers whose opinions will matter more to the viewership.
Console players are the majority demographic for most multi-platform games, including CoD. Halo will be no different; if not MORE heavily skewed towards console because of the franchise’s legacy AND it will be on the last gen Xbox. I agree with Capt Nutella- Halo should be treated as an XBOX game first and foremost. It’s basically to Xbox what Mario is to Nintendo.
> 2533274796540656;58:
> > 2533274822068856;2:
> > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> >
> > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
>
> If this were actually true then I’d have expected to see at least one M&K player at the Halo Reach PC tournament they held after the release of MCC on PC, but guess what? There weren’t any. They were all controller players.
That still means a M+KB is better… player choice doesn’t change the fact a controller has less input. Pc halo has kind of been rare till the last year with 343 starting to be more inclusive on that front, I’d expect to see more M+KB pretty soon too because of it.
> 2533274933770910;75:
> > 2533274793006817;55:
> > OK, well most people who have given feedback have been overall in the camp that it needs improved.
>
> Unless that is directly from 343 source, I doubt that. We should not statements like that because it is potentially misleading.
>
> The other thing is that the majority can also be wrong sometimes as perceived problems can be different that the actual problems or causes. The developers ultimately make the decisions.
“This game is perfect. You do not know how the game feels in your hand. You are having fun.”
EDIT:
> 2533274933770910;77:
> The weaker aim assist of Halo Infinite is not making it any less fun.
Oh snap, I hadn’t even read this yet when I replied.
> 2533274793006817;84:
> > 2533274933770910;75:
> > > 2533274793006817;55:
> > > > 2533274933770910;49:
> > > > > 2533274793006817;47:
> > > > > > 2533274933770910;39:
> > > > > > An even playing field is not possible between M&K and controller players. You always end up one of these input methods being the better option. That’s why the matchmaking needs to be input based, as mentioned by 343 in their blog post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As default, M&K is a superior input method. Controller can only compete with a significant aim assist which then makes the controller de-facto input method.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Increasing controller aim assist just because it needs to be able to compete with M&K does not make sense to me because it hurts controller only gameplay.
> > > > >
> > > > > But that’s assuming that aim assist is starting from a perfect place before tweaking. Without personal experience I do not have an opinion, but most people who played the flight would say it did not have the right amount of aim assist. Regardless of competing with KBM players, it sounds like controller aim assist needs tweaked to make playing on controller feel better.
> > > >
> > > > You don’t know what most people thought about it. Most people from the flight are not even reading these forums. That is for 343 to determine.
> > > > I personally thought the amount of aim assist on controller was perfect, that was after playing somewhere between 50 - 100 games of Infinite past weekend.
> > > >
> > > > What seemed to be a bigger issue were the deadzone settings on a controller, and for some, acceleration settings.
> > >
> > > OK, well most people who have given feedback have been overall in the camp that it needs improved.
> >
> > Unless that is directly from 343 source, I doubt that. We should not statements like that because it is potentially misleading.
> >
> > The other thing is that the majority can also be wrong sometimes as perceived problems can be different that the actual problems or causes. The developers ultimately make the decisions.
>
> “This game is perfect. You do not know how the game feels in your hand. You are having fun.”
When you have players saying contradicting things, the two groups can’t be both right. Maybe the player feedback is about symptoms, and not about the cause of the symptoms.
As a developer you also need to figure out why are you getting certain feedback. Figure out the cause of the problem, if there is a problem. Sometimes the solution is something completely different than what was suggested by the players.
it has and always will be primarily a console game and shooter. it was literally developed for that purpose originally back in the day and it should stay that way because that’s who the main audience is. as such, aiming should be and can be as easy as necessary to compete with sweaty cs:go keyboard and mouse players.
It’s definitely going to be interesting to see how the game functions when it’s ready. I must say though that my partner and my younger brothers play all the other Halo’s, they struggle a little bit but not nearly as much as they did in the Tech preview. Those were only bots as well, in that regard it wasn’t a user friendly experience for less experienced players.
On the other side of the coin, it was challenging at first but once I worked my way around the sandbox I found it quite simple to control the weapons. But I take my gaming serious as I’m a competitive person at heart.
> 2533274933770910;73:
> > 2535438636443468;52:
> > > 2533274933770910;51:
> > > > 2535438636443468;46:
> > > > > 2533274933770910;39:
> > > > > > 2533274876991706;4:
> > > > > > So because controller players allegedly have an advantage in decade old console games - PC players should have an advantage in Infinite?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don’t see many people asking for a big boost. Just a little one, the disparity between controller and KB&M should be as small as possible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Infinite isn’t just harder, it’s not finished yet and needs more polish in its controller gunplay. Some guns are fine, some are not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I want an even playing field
> > > > >
> > > > > An even playing field is not possible between M&K and controller players. You always end up one of these input methods being the better option. That’s why the matchmaking needs to be input based, as mentioned by 343 in their blog post.
> > > > >
> > > > > As default, M&K is a superior input method. Controller can only compete with a significant aim assist which then makes the controller de-facto input method.
> > > > >
> > > > > Increasing controller aim assist just because it needs to be able to compete with M&K does not make sense to me because it hurts controller only gameplay.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keeping the input methods separate makes everything easier.
> > > >
> > > > Well I’m not sure about this, I think a great solution would actually be if 343 had a flight SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of platform balancing. With enough player feedback I’m sure that 343 could work something out.
> > >
> > > After playing 24 - 25 years of multiplayer FPS games on both of these input types and I am confident that such balance does not exist.
> > >
> > > You are certainly not going to get it right by listening to often conflicting player feedback, some of which might not be honest feedback (e.g. some people want their chosen input type to have an advantage).
> > >
> > > To me Halo Infinite controls felt the best I have seen on controller in these types of games. It would be sad if that would be ruined by a stronger aim assist just because we need to compete with keyboard and mouse.
> >
> > Well yes, its SUPER hard to balance, it might even be impossible. I’m just not sure that separating the two platforms is a viable option. You COULD just have the two platforms mix in Social matches, but if they don’t TRY to balance the two then even that won’t be fun. I think that they should try to get the two as balanced as possible, but then have the two platforms part ways in competitive. What do you think about that solution?
>
> I think they have managed to make the console and PC platforms more equal than even before, but the input types are just too different to be properly balanced. The game will be skewed towards one input method or the other. I think trying to balance the two for social or competitive games would hurt the game.
>
> It is better to ensure that the controller only games are the best possible experience, and MKB only games are the best possible experience. It is easier to achieve that when both input types are treated in isolation from each other.
I suppose that I agree, however, I’m not sure that players should have the option of crossplay completely removed, maybe if you have a friend on controller THEN you can have it so that the leader of the party is the platform that games are held on, but that’s it.
> 2535445608274502;87:
> It’s definitely going to be interesting to see how the game functions when it’s ready. I must say though that my partner and my younger brothers play all the other Halo’s, they struggle a little bit but not nearly as much as they did in the Tech preview. Those were only bots as well, in that regard it wasn’t a user friendly experience for less experienced players.
>
> On the other side of the coin, it was challenging at first but once I worked my way around the sandbox I found it quite simple to control the weapons. But I take my gaming serious as I’m a competitive person at heart.
Well I see your point, I’m actually a pretty new player to Halo in general, so I can’t say that I won’t get demolished. But I think its important that 343 at least find some solution of allowing Mouse and Keyboard players to feel like they are in a fair environment. Whether that be to either separate M&K players from Controller players or to merely balance them I don’t know, but something has to be done because currently both parties are feeling a little worried due to the M&K players having been ripped off in MCC and the Controller players having been ripped off in Halo Infinite (so far).
> 2535438636443468;89:
> > 2535445608274502;87:
> > It’s definitely going to be interesting to see how the game functions when it’s ready. I must say though that my partner and my younger brothers play all the other Halo’s, they struggle a little bit but not nearly as much as they did in the Tech preview. Those were only bots as well, in that regard it wasn’t a user friendly experience for less experienced players.
> >
> > On the other side of the coin, it was challenging at first but once I worked my way around the sandbox I found it quite simple to control the weapons. But I take my gaming serious as I’m a competitive person at heart.
>
> Well I see your point, I’m actually a pretty new player to Halo in general, so I can’t say that I won’t get demolished. But I think its important that 343 at least find some solution of allowing Mouse and Keyboard players to feel like they are in a fair environment. Whether that be to either separate M&K players from Controller players or to merely balance them I don’t know, but something has to be done because currently both parties are feeling a little worried due to the M&K players having been ripped off in MCC and the Controller players having been ripped off in Halo Infinite (so far).
Fair enough, I can see where you’re coming from. Luckily for us the game we played over the weekend was just the technical preview and had a lot of room to be refined and polished. I’m sure that come launch the game will be much fairer between PC and Console. It has to be, otherwise competitive just won’t function, and that will hurt the competitive community.
> 2533274933770910;85:
> > 2533274793006817;84:
> > “This game is perfect. You do not know how the game feels in your hand. You are having fun.”
>
> When you have players saying contradicting things, the two groups can’t be both right. Maybe the player feedback is about symptoms, and not about the cause of the symptoms.
>
> As a developer you also need to figure out why are you getting certain feedback. Figure out the cause of the problem, if there is a problem. Sometimes the solution is something completely different than what was suggested by the players.
Yeah, there’s you choosing to argue alongside the KBM players wanting free kills against console players and then there’s people without an agenda giving honest feedback.
People aren’t demanding more aim assist because they were getting slaughtered by KBM players. They wanted more aim assist because they were having way too much trouble accurately aiming at and tracking braindead bots. You can make an argument about the deadzone making it too hard to snap to targets, but at the point it never feels reasonable to track enemies running across your screen, that’s far bigger than deadzone correction.
You want zero aim assist whatsoever on Snipers and I’m game. I will embrace that every time because I want people to be bad at sniping because that makes me better at sniping compared to them. I’ll take that tradeoff every single time, EASILY. However, tracking someone with an AR shouldn’t be as hard to do as landing 300m shots in Battlefield 1 when you lob bullets across the map like lawn darts (which I enjoy, but that’s not how Halo CQC should work).
> 2533274793006817;91:
> > 2533274933770910;85:
> > > 2533274793006817;84:
> > > “This game is perfect. You do not know how the game feels in your hand. You are having fun.”
> >
> > When you have players saying contradicting things, the two groups can’t be both right. Maybe the player feedback is about symptoms, and not about the cause of the symptoms.
> >
> > As a developer you also need to figure out why are you getting certain feedback. Figure out the cause of the problem, if there is a problem. Sometimes the solution is something completely different than what was suggested by the players.
>
> Yeah, there’s you choosing to argue alongside the KBM players wanting free kills against console players and then there’s people without an agenda giving honest feedback.
>
> People aren’t demanding more aim assist because they were getting slaughtered by KBM players. They wanted more aim assist because they were having way too much trouble accurately aiming at and tracking braindead bots. You can make an argument about the deadzone making it too hard to snap to targets, but at the point it never feels reasonable to track enemies running across your screen, that’s far bigger than deadzone correction.
>
> You want zero aim assist whatsoever on Snipers and I’m game. I will embrace that every time because I want people to be bad at sniping because that makes me better at sniping compared to them. I’ll take that tradeoff every single time, EASILY. However, tracking someone with an AR shouldn’t be as hard to do as landing 300m shots in Battlefield 1 when you lob bullets across the map like lawn darts (which I enjoy, but that’s not how Halo CQC should work).
I am not arguing for someone to have an advantage. As a controller player I am clearly not arguing for advantage for myself. I think my feedback from playing with a controller is honest because I have nothing to win from making this argument.
The reason why I am arguing this point is because I strongly believe that increasing aim assist makes the controller only gameplay worse. And I am not the only controller player here making this argument.
I personally thought that tracking enemies was fine with a controller. That’s my honest feedback, and the only agenda here is wanting Infinite to be the best possible game. I think trying to compensate the KBM - controller difference with a more aggressive aim assist on controllers would be detriment to the game.
> 2533274933770910;92:
> I think trying to compensate the KBM - controller difference with a more aggressive aim assist on controllers would be detriment to the game.
Most people’s complaints have had nothing to do with KBM. It has to do with just playing the game on controller in general.
I don’t mind the aim assist in infinite but I play a lot of video games on PC and console. Halos success was mostly due to Bungies ability to make shooters widely accessible through ease of use on console controllers for the first time. Anyone could play Halo, and at minimum, not be frustrated by the controls. If anything it’d be more “Halo” to make it even easier to aim and hit a target. The casual players are right on this one and are who will make or break the life span of the game. and trust me PC players will be fine and will most likely abandon this game for others more catered to ease of use on PC, like Valorant and CSGO, as soon as the hype train passes by. But the real problem is that awful radar design!!
> 2535455683059862;94:
> I don’t mind the aim assist in infinite but I play a lot of video games on PC and console. Halos success was mostly due to Bungies ability to make shooters widely accessible through ease of use on console controllers for the first time. Anyone could play Halo, and at minimum, not be frustrated by the controls. If anything it’d be more “Halo” to make it even easier to aim and hit a target. The casual players are right on this one and are who will make or break the life span of the game. and trust me PC players will be fine and will most likely abandon this game for others more catered to ease of use on PC, like Valorant and CSGO, as soon as the hype train passes by. But the real problem is that awful radar design!!
Well I’m a super huge halo fan but I don’t own an XBOX and am horrible on controller, so my only problem with what your point is that you basically said that since I have not had much experience on Controller I will just have to abandon the game because 343 should just cater to Controller players and ignore M&K players. Look, Halo’s main fanbase are the Controller community, but that by no means gives 343 the right to completely ignore M&K players despite the fact that this game is also launching on PC.
> 2533274798978596;96:
> I just want to not be able to tell what input I’m playing against.
>
> And, if crossplay was enabled in the 2 hour pvp test then I’d say 343 has done very well. I couldn’t tell the input being used by opponents in the slightest.
Well I think that controllers were involved in the PVP test, but many controller players feel that it is too difficult for casual play, and many of the players on the PVP test were above average. But they are also missing the fact that the aiming in Halo Infinite is rather clunky at the moment in the old build, so its possible that their problems with aiming were not even related to aim assist. However, once the issue is fixed (and it WILL be fixed) I expect that many of those who thought it was too difficult will cease in their complaints, however, I expect that even after the fix a minor buff in controller aim assist is necessary.
I understand their problem, but I don’t agree that since Console players are the majority of the playerbase that we should ignore M&K players.
> 2535438636443468;95:
> > 2535455683059862;94:
> > I don’t mind the aim assist in infinite but I play a lot of video games on PC and console. Halos success was mostly due to Bungies ability to make shooters widely accessible through ease of use on console controllers for the first time. Anyone could play Halo, and at minimum, not be frustrated by the controls. If anything it’d be more “Halo” to make it even easier to aim and hit a target. The casual players are right on this one and are who will make or break the life span of the game. and trust me PC players will be fine and will most likely abandon this game for others more catered to ease of use on PC, like Valorant and CSGO, as soon as the hype train passes by. But the real problem is that awful radar design!!
>
> Well I’m a super huge halo fan but I don’t own an XBOX and am horrible on controller, so my only problem with what your point is that you basically said that since I have not had much experience on Controller I will just have to abandon the game because 343 should just cater to Controller players and ignore M&K players. Look, Halo’s main fanbase are the Controller community, but that by no means gives 343 the right to completely ignore M&K players despite the fact that this game is also launching on PC.
I didn’t say you have to do anything buddy. I said I’m fine with the aim assist in Infinite personally. I said the people that are upset are right. It is a compromise to balance gameplay between devices. They haven’t put games like Valorant on console for a reason. A Valorant 2 with compromised PC controls for console players would be upsetting to fans on PC. My point is that these people are entitled to their opinions and should be understood. I never said 343 should ignore M&K players.
> 2535438636443468;97:
> > 2533274798978596;96:
> > I just want to not be able to tell what input I’m playing against.
> >
> > And, if crossplay was enabled in the 2 hour pvp test then I’d say 343 has done very well. I couldn’t tell the input being used by opponents in the slightest.
>
> Well I think that controllers were involved in the PVP test, but many controller players feel that it is too difficult for casual play, and many of the players on the PVP test were above average. But they are also missing the fact that the aiming in Halo Infinite is rather clunky at the moment in the old build, so its possible that their problems with aiming were not even related to aim assist. However, once the issue is fixed (and it WILL be fixed) I expect that many of those who thought it was too difficult will cease in their complaints, however, I expect that even after the fix a minor buff in controller aim assist is necessary.
>
> I understand their problem, but I don’t agree that since Console players are the majority of the playerbase that we should ignore M&K players.
I agree with all of this but didn’t think about the fact that the 2 month old build might have clunkier aiming. It felt a bit bad for me (was using a controller the whole weekend) but after the first couple of days I started getting really used to it.
Hopefully the next tech test build will alleviate some of the issues that some controller players were having without having to increase the auto aim. I think it felt nice.
> 2533274793006817;93:
> > 2533274933770910;92:
> > I think trying to compensate the KBM - controller difference with a more aggressive aim assist on controllers would be detriment to the game.
>
> Most people’s complaints have had nothing to do with KBM. It has to do with just playing the game on controller in general.
Again, I would not use the word ‘most’ in that sentence because it might be inaccurate.
