> 2535438636443468;59:
> > 2533274796540656;58:
> > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > >
> > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> >
> > If this were actually true then I’d have expected to see at least one M&K player at the Halo Reach PC tournament they held after the release of MCC on PC, but guess what? There weren’t any. They were all controller players.
>
> My point exactly, Mouse and Keyboard isn’t better if everyone playing at high levels choose Controller instead.
sorry, but they will be turning it up for sure. Console players will always be the majority and they won’t want to alienate so many of their gamers Plus halo will always be first and foremost a Console game. Yes Its great that we have PC players now but it has its downsides. Not only does it have whinging toolbags upset because their master race pcs are being beaten by a controller But also we see cheaters coming from Pc. Its no wonder most console gamers will turn crossplay off no doubt.
> 2533274800739735;48:
> Aiming in general is broken, not just aim assist. Deadzones are borked beyond belief, and aiming diagonally is way slower than aiming horizontally and vertically. This is the core of the problem and is why aiming feels terrible. Even if they ramp aim assist way up it’s still going to feel like yoink until they fix the core issues with aiming.
THIS
Everyone is arguing about the lack of AA but I promise you it would be nowhere near as bad of an issue if the actual aiming itself was fixed.
> 2533274874194954;62:
> > 2533274800739735;48:
> > Aiming in general is broken, not just aim assist. Deadzones are borked beyond belief, and aiming diagonally is way slower than aiming horizontally and vertically. This is the core of the problem and is why aiming feels terrible. Even if they ramp aim assist way up it’s still going to feel like yoink until they fix the core issues with aiming.
>
> THIS
>
> Everyone is arguing about the lack of AA but I promise you it would be nowhere near as bad of an issue if the actual aiming itself was fixed.
>
> 1) “0” Deadzone isn’t actually zero
> 2) Aiming along the Z axis is like halved
I’ve actually heard that this is a problem, and this MUST be fixed, so who knows, if its fixed by the next flight then maybe people will realize that they don’t need AA turned up. But its possible that they may still need it.
> 2535438636443468;63:
> > 2533274874194954;62:
> > > 2533274800739735;48:
> > > Aiming in general is broken, not just aim assist. Deadzones are borked beyond belief, and aiming diagonally is way slower than aiming horizontally and vertically. This is the core of the problem and is why aiming feels terrible. Even if they ramp aim assist way up it’s still going to feel like yoink until they fix the core issues with aiming.
> >
> > THIS
> >
> > Everyone is arguing about the lack of AA but I promise you it would be nowhere near as bad of an issue if the actual aiming itself was fixed.
> >
> > 1) “0” Deadzone isn’t actually zero
> > 2) Aiming along the Z axis is like halved
>
> I’ve actually heard that this is a problem, and this MUST be fixed, so who knows, if its fixed by the next flight then maybe people will realize that they don’t need AA turned up. But its possible that they may still need it.
I agree for me this is make or break on the game. Whatever response curve is being used for MCC nails it, I could have 0 AA on MCC and feel satisfied.
Infinite is suffering from the same problem H5 ended up having which is it feels jerky this is partly due to the huge dead zones. They need to address this or it will be Halo “Finite” all other shooters in the market offer a way more polished aiming system.
> 2533274885506317;61:
> > 2535438636443468;59:
> > > 2533274796540656;58:
> > > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > >
> > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > >
> > > If this were actually true then I’d have expected to see at least one M&K player at the Halo Reach PC tournament they held after the release of MCC on PC, but guess what? There weren’t any. They were all controller players.
> >
> > My point exactly, Mouse and Keyboard isn’t better if everyone playing at high levels choose Controller instead.
>
> sorry, but they will be turning it up for sure. Console players will always be the majority and they won’t want to alienate so many of their gamers Plus halo will always be first and foremost a Console game. Yes Its great that we have PC players now but it has its downsides. Not only does it have whinging toolbags upset because their master race pcs are being beaten by a controller But also we see cheaters coming from Pc. Its no wonder most console gamers will turn crossplay off no doubt.
You were only the majority in the past because the game was a console exclusive. Now that the newest iteration of the game is coming to PC, will you still be the majority? I’d imagine 343 will want to appease the streamers whose opinions will matter more to the viewership.
> 2533274796540656;65:
> > 2533274885506317;61:
> > > 2535438636443468;59:
> > > > 2533274796540656;58:
> > > > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > >
> > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > >
> > > > If this were actually true then I’d have expected to see at least one M&K player at the Halo Reach PC tournament they held after the release of MCC on PC, but guess what? There weren’t any. They were all controller players.
> > >
> > > My point exactly, Mouse and Keyboard isn’t better if everyone playing at high levels choose Controller instead.
> >
> > sorry, but they will be turning it up for sure. Console players will always be the majority and they won’t want to alienate so many of their gamers Plus halo will always be first and foremost a Console game. Yes Its great that we have PC players now but it has its downsides. Not only does it have whinging toolbags upset because their master race pcs are being beaten by a controller But also we see cheaters coming from Pc. Its no wonder most console gamers will turn crossplay off no doubt.
>
> You were only the majority in the past because the game was a console exclusive. Now that the newest iteration of the game is coming to PC, will you still be the majority? I’d imagine 343 will want to appease the streamers whose opinions will matter more to the viewership.
Yes, they still will be the majority 343 knows if the console gamers leave it droves the game will slowly die. They know that they have to balance it well. It will have an input based matchmaking setting and if the balance favour pc heavily 343 will find console gamers have this one effectively nullifying crossplay more or less.
> 2533274885506317;66:
> > 2533274796540656;65:
> > > 2533274885506317;61:
> > > > 2535438636443468;59:
> > > > > 2533274796540656;58:
> > > > > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > >
> > > > > If this were actually true then I’d have expected to see at least one M&K player at the Halo Reach PC tournament they held after the release of MCC on PC, but guess what? There weren’t any. They were all controller players.
> > > >
> > > > My point exactly, Mouse and Keyboard isn’t better if everyone playing at high levels choose Controller instead.
> > >
> > > sorry, but they will be turning it up for sure. Console players will always be the majority and they won’t want to alienate so many of their gamers Plus halo will always be first and foremost a Console game. Yes Its great that we have PC players now but it has its downsides. Not only does it have whinging toolbags upset because their master race pcs are being beaten by a controller But also we see cheaters coming from Pc. Its no wonder most console gamers will turn crossplay off no doubt.
> >
> > You were only the majority in the past because the game was a console exclusive. Now that the newest iteration of the game is coming to PC, will you still be the majority? I’d imagine 343 will want to appease the streamers whose opinions will matter more to the viewership.
>
> Yes, they still will be the majority 343 knows if the console gamers leave it droves the game will slowly die. They know that they have to balance it well. It will have an input based matchmaking setting and if the balance favour pc heavily 343 will find console gamers have this one effectively nullifying crossplay more or less.
Yes, that super healthy console player base that 343 just can’t live without…
> 2533274796540656;67:
> > 2533274885506317;66:
> > > 2533274796540656;65:
> > > > 2533274885506317;61:
> > > > > 2535438636443468;59:
> > > > > > 2533274796540656;58:
> > > > > > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If this were actually true then I’d have expected to see at least one M&K player at the Halo Reach PC tournament they held after the release of MCC on PC, but guess what? There weren’t any. They were all controller players.
> > > > >
> > > > > My point exactly, Mouse and Keyboard isn’t better if everyone playing at high levels choose Controller instead.
> > > >
> > > > sorry, but they will be turning it up for sure. Console players will always be the majority and they won’t want to alienate so many of their gamers Plus halo will always be first and foremost a Console game. Yes Its great that we have PC players now but it has its downsides. Not only does it have whinging toolbags upset because their master race pcs are being beaten by a controller But also we see cheaters coming from Pc. Its no wonder most console gamers will turn crossplay off no doubt.
> > >
> > > You were only the majority in the past because the game was a console exclusive. Now that the newest iteration of the game is coming to PC, will you still be the majority? I’d imagine 343 will want to appease the streamers whose opinions will matter more to the viewership.
> >
> > Yes, they still will be the majority 343 knows if the console gamers leave it droves the game will slowly die. They know that they have to balance it well. It will have an input based matchmaking setting and if the balance favour pc heavily 343 will find console gamers have this one effectively nullifying crossplay more or less.
>
> Yes, that super healthy console player base that 343 just can’t live without…
Healthy? That’s debatable, but it is their main player base, so they can’t considering their game is only on this console.
The problem I have isn’t with the aim assist, it’s with janky aim controls on controller in general, it is very, very far from smooth. If it was a sensitivity problem I’d be over, or under correcting. But instead, I do both. It feels like sometimes it snaps way too far, and others it barely seems to move.
That’s what needs to be fixed. If I can consistently snipe with the Sniper in Halo 3, which had no reticle stick, and very low bullet magnetism, I should be able to consistently track a target with the Sidekick in RRR. And against lower tier bots I can, but players? Nah. I feel my aim going all over the place in a gunfight, which isn’t a problem I’ve had in a shooter in over a decade.
That makes no sense. Aim assist is absolutely essential for controller players to be competitive against keyboard and mouse players. Controller has no where near the precision of KB+M, hence why it needs stronger aim assist than the flight with its nearly non-existent aim assist on controller. It sounds like you just want an unfair advantage over controller players.
Don’t agree with this in the slightest. A lot of us loyal Halo players have been on controller for the last 20 years. The difference in aim assist made my experience with the tech preview this weekend pretty bad. I watched a few videos on YouTube of PC players going off and was excited to try it out on my Xbox, only to find out the hard way that this did not feel like “my Halo”. The auto-aim assist was hard enough and now we have to go from a 5 shot perfect kill to 7 shot perfect kill with the pistol. If we are playing cross platform, this is a huge turnoff in my opinion. The aim assist is so bad that I felt like it was an entirely different game. Give us what we are used to and what has drawn us to loyally play this game for the last 20 years.
> 2535438636443468;52:
> > 2533274933770910;51:
> > > 2535438636443468;46:
> > > > 2533274933770910;39:
> > > > > 2533274876991706;4:
> > > > > So because controller players allegedly have an advantage in decade old console games - PC players should have an advantage in Infinite?
> > > > >
> > > > > I don’t see many people asking for a big boost. Just a little one, the disparity between controller and KB&M should be as small as possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Infinite isn’t just harder, it’s not finished yet and needs more polish in its controller gunplay. Some guns are fine, some are not.
> > > > >
> > > > > I want an even playing field
> > > >
> > > > An even playing field is not possible between M&K and controller players. You always end up one of these input methods being the better option. That’s why the matchmaking needs to be input based, as mentioned by 343 in their blog post.
> > > >
> > > > As default, M&K is a superior input method. Controller can only compete with a significant aim assist which then makes the controller de-facto input method.
> > > >
> > > > Increasing controller aim assist just because it needs to be able to compete with M&K does not make sense to me because it hurts controller only gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > Keeping the input methods separate makes everything easier.
> > >
> > > Well I’m not sure about this, I think a great solution would actually be if 343 had a flight SPECIFICALLY for the purpose of platform balancing. With enough player feedback I’m sure that 343 could work something out.
> >
> > After playing 24 - 25 years of multiplayer FPS games on both of these input types and I am confident that such balance does not exist.
> >
> > You are certainly not going to get it right by listening to often conflicting player feedback, some of which might not be honest feedback (e.g. some people want their chosen input type to have an advantage).
> >
> > To me Halo Infinite controls felt the best I have seen on controller in these types of games. It would be sad if that would be ruined by a stronger aim assist just because we need to compete with keyboard and mouse.
>
> Well yes, its SUPER hard to balance, it might even be impossible. I’m just not sure that separating the two platforms is a viable option. You COULD just have the two platforms mix in Social matches, but if they don’t TRY to balance the two then even that won’t be fun. I think that they should try to get the two as balanced as possible, but then have the two platforms part ways in competitive. What do you think about that solution?
I think they have managed to make the console and PC platforms more equal than even before, but the input types are just too different to be properly balanced. The game will be skewed towards one input method or the other. I think trying to balance the two for social or competitive games would hurt the game.
It is better to ensure that the controller only games are the best possible experience, and MKB only games are the best possible experience. It is easier to achieve that when both input types are treated in isolation from each other.
> 2535434853201329;70:
> That makes no sense. Aim assist is absolutely essential for controller players to be competitive against keyboard and mouse players. Controller has no where near the precision of KB+M, hence why it needs stronger aim assist than the flight with its nearly non-existent aim assist on controller. It sounds like you just want an unfair advantage over controller players.
As a controller player I don’t want more aim assist. The point is that 343 will separate players on the basis of input type in ranked matches.
You don’t need to play competitive ranked matches against mouse and keyboard players.
When you are only facing other controller players, the best aim will win. As it should.
> 2533274793006817;55:
> > 2533274933770910;49:
> > > 2533274793006817;47:
> > > > 2533274933770910;39:
> > > > An even playing field is not possible between M&K and controller players. You always end up one of these input methods being the better option. That’s why the matchmaking needs to be input based, as mentioned by 343 in their blog post.
> > > >
> > > > As default, M&K is a superior input method. Controller can only compete with a significant aim assist which then makes the controller de-facto input method.
> > > >
> > > > Increasing controller aim assist just because it needs to be able to compete with M&K does not make sense to me because it hurts controller only gameplay.
> > >
> > > But that’s assuming that aim assist is starting from a perfect place before tweaking. Without personal experience I do not have an opinion, but most people who played the flight would say it did not have the right amount of aim assist. Regardless of competing with KBM players, it sounds like controller aim assist needs tweaked to make playing on controller feel better.
> >
> > You don’t know what most people thought about it. Most people from the flight are not even reading these forums. That is for 343 to determine.
> > I personally thought the amount of aim assist on controller was perfect, that was after playing somewhere between 50 - 100 games of Infinite past weekend.
> >
> > What seemed to be a bigger issue were the deadzone settings on a controller, and for some, acceleration settings.
>
> OK, well most people who have given feedback have been overall in the camp that it needs improved.
Unless that is directly from 343 source, I doubt that. We should not statements like that because it is potentially misleading.
The other thing is that the majority can also be wrong sometimes as perceived problems can be different that the actual problems or causes. The developers ultimately make the decisions.
> 2533274933770910;74:
> > 2535434853201329;70:
> > That makes no sense. Aim assist is absolutely essential for controller players to be competitive against keyboard and mouse players. Controller has no where near the precision of KB+M, hence why it needs stronger aim assist than the flight with its nearly non-existent aim assist on controller. It sounds like you just want an unfair advantage over controller players.
>
> As a controller player I don’t want more aim assist. The point is that 343 will separate players on the basis of input type in ranked matches.
>
> You don’t need to play competitive ranked matches against mouse and keyboard players.
>
> When you are only facing other controller players, the best aim will win. As it should.
The game has to be fun first, not competitive first. Unless you want your player base to be formed only by a bunch of elitist pros. Aiming like this is a chore, as it was a sweat fest in halo 5.
Halo became competitive because people find deepness, brilliant sandbox and evolved game mechanics into a fun to play game. It’s not a game about pigeon shooting.
> 2533274802394980;76:
> > 2533274933770910;74:
> > > 2535434853201329;70:
> > > That makes no sense. Aim assist is absolutely essential for controller players to be competitive against keyboard and mouse players. Controller has no where near the precision of KB+M, hence why it needs stronger aim assist than the flight with its nearly non-existent aim assist on controller. It sounds like you just want an unfair advantage over controller players.
> >
> > As a controller player I don’t want more aim assist. The point is that 343 will separate players on the basis of input type in ranked matches.
> >
> > You don’t need to play competitive ranked matches against mouse and keyboard players.
> >
> > When you are only facing other controller players, the best aim will win. As it should.
>
> The game has to be fun first, not competitive first. Unless you want your player base to be formed only by a bunch of elitist pros. Aiming like this is a chore, as it was a sweat fest in halo 5.
> Halo became competitive because people find deepness, brilliant sandbox and evolved game mechanics into a fun to play game. It’s not a game about pigeon shooting.
The weaker aim assist of Halo Infinite is not making it any less fun. The response to the technical test was overwhelmingly positive so clearly people were having fun in non-competitive setting with that amount of aim assist.
Halo 5 has a significantly stronger aim assist. The H5 pistol pretty much locks into enemy heads when within red reticle range. So I don’t understand your argument there.
Lastly, I don’t think we should start seeing good players or good aim being a bad thing. If someone wants to put their time into practising aiming, they should be rewarded for it. I don’t understand the negative sentiments against people who become good at a video game, especially if its without -Yoink!-.
> 2533274933770910;77:
> > 2533274802394980;76:
> > > 2533274933770910;74:
> > > > 2535434853201329;70:
> > > > That makes no sense. Aim assist is absolutely essential for controller players to be competitive against keyboard and mouse players. Controller has no where near the precision of KB+M, hence why it needs stronger aim assist than the flight with its nearly non-existent aim assist on controller. It sounds like you just want an unfair advantage over controller players.
> > >
> > > As a controller player I don’t want more aim assist. The point is that 343 will separate players on the basis of input type in ranked matches.
> > >
> > > You don’t need to play competitive ranked matches against mouse and keyboard players.
> > >
> > > When you are only facing other controller players, the best aim will win. As it should.
> >
> > The game has to be fun first, not competitive first. Unless you want your player base to be formed only by a bunch of elitist pros. Aiming like this is a chore, as it was a sweat fest in halo 5.
> > Halo became competitive because people find deepness, brilliant sandbox and evolved game mechanics into a fun to play game. It’s not a game about pigeon shooting.
>
> The weaker aim assist of Halo Infinite is not making it any less fun. The response to the technical test was overwhelmingly positive so clearly people were having fun in non-competitive setting with that amount of aim assist.
>
> Halo 5 has a significantly stronger aim assist. The H5 pistol pretty much locks into enemy heads when within red reticle range. So I don’t understand your argument there.
>
> Lastly, I don’t think we should start seeing good players or good aim being a bad thing. If someone wants to put their time into practising aiming, they should be rewarded for it. I don’t understand the negative sentiments against people who become good at a video game, especially if its without -Yoink!-.
You could clearly notice good players even in previous halo, even with a less taxing aiming system. The point is to make a game accessible, and make it competitive thanks to the deepness of its mechanics, not through making harder one of its basic components.
I unfortunately did not play the flight but I watched a lot (really a lot) and from what I have seen Mouse and Keyboard player still lose almost all close/ distance duel… while I cannot prove opponents were on controller I think it at least can show how knM is really stronv for medium+/long distance fights. If controller aim assist is increased it could make things worse. Controller I have seen do better on almosst every situation so really I think it’s better left untouched until pvp can be played way more so we have a better idea. 343 should not tweak anything until they make a real pvp flight.
This is one of the worse arguments I’ve heard. Aiming as it was in the first Infinite flight is unlike any other aiming in any other Halo game… ever. The weird aiming problems were literally the FIRST THING I noticed when I joined my first match. I’ve never had that problem with any other Halo game, or honestly, the vast majority of other console FPSs (including plenty that are cross-pay like CoD or BF).