343 shouldn't make aiming way easier on Controller

Games Halo Infinite
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> > This is definitely a difficult thing to balance, and I am sure with more flighting they can get a better idea of how to balance this.
>
> Or just segregate both groups. Problem solved.

This is truly the only way to keep things even. We need an option to only play against similar inputs. Even if a test is conducted with 50k MK players and 50k controller players with accuracy numbers within a single percent, MK players still have an advantage because of how quickly they can turn and locate enemies.

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> > > This is definitely a difficult thing to balance, and I am sure with more flighting they can get a better idea of how to balance this.
> >
> > Or just segregate both groups. Problem solved.
>
> This is truly the only way to keep things even. We need an option to only play against similar inputs. Even if a test is conducted with 50k MK players and 50k controller players with accuracy numbers within a single percent, MK players still have an advantage because of how quickly they can turn and locate enemies.

They’ve already said this will be an option.

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> > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > >
> > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > >
> > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> >
> > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
>
> Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
>
> If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
>
> The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.

When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when their peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m just saying, aiming in Splitgate is much smoother and more controller friendly than it was in the Infinite preview, but M&K players are still dominant on the ranked leaderboards. So at the very least, having controller aim be as smooth as it is in Splitgate is a must.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This, the game currently feels hostile to the thumbs, and that’s not an AA problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree that aim in general feels off, especially the default settings. But I still feel aim assist is not quite where it should be. At times it felt good, and at other times, it felt like it dropped off almost completely. Whatever the case is, something is definitely not right with aiming on controller. That much nearly everyone agrees with. 343 should shed some light on what exactly is going on with aiming in Infinite.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > stop defending your point. Most people say it feels fine. AA is good where it is. Your responses dont make sense at all either. It was not just controller feeling the crappy aim. It was mnk too.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Most agree the aiming needs to be in general improved. Via an aim assist buff or whatever they need to do, its literally just yourself, stew and some annoying PC elitists who keep defending how it is currently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > not defending pc elitism. Like i said before I’ve played on console too. Its not about the AA its about the aiming feeling. It felt heavy on both inputs overall (yes i have tested it on both the xbox and pc).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never said you were defending elitism but whilst you may be right about it feeling off, I’m still certain that the ‘AA/Aiming needs a buff’ camp is the majority.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > idk what to say because its not elitism. It’s actually my objective opinion about it. Personally, I have never aim trained on controller. Its just a pick up and play. On mnk it involves lots of training. Like peaking on 85k+ on aimlabs gridshot is not easy. Nobody wants a repetition of what happened on mcc where most of the controller pc players drove off the halo population. If you even think this about defending pc elitism, why would I call out those using a pc with a controller? Console controller players are fine and are skillful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To do well on a controller it’s not just pick and play far from it. With a keyboard and mouse, I can be precise which isn’t the same with a controller. Now I am not saying either is pick up and play, but with a keyboard and mouse on PC, I have a far superior range of sensitivity options. There needs to be a sweet spot between MCC aim assist and Infinites Aim assist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what you are saying is not correct. I can be precise on the controller without having near the same amount of discipline as mnk, thanks to aim assist. Mnk was not the case for me. It took me a couple of hundred hours to practice my flicking and tracking (FYI i started off terribly on mnk. For gridshot i started off at 55k and peaked at 89k, which is above the average and is considered competent aim on mnk), and this does not factor in the hours I’ve played on mcc and other games. Too much AA on mcc gave controller players on pc to take advantage of AA far beyond the ranges of mnk AA. That was the largest imbalance i could have ever seen. But yes there needs to be a good balance of aim assist but slightly to the infinite side as opposed to the average between mcc and infinite.
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s just you though I’ve spent nearly two decades on both keyboard and controller I am not arguing about MCC everybody knows this about the AA. But the AA on infinite was really low. And I’ve seen constant PC K&M players saying it was too strong which is laughable. As I said there is a sweet spot between MCC and infinite for AA and that’s where it should land. If they keep AA too low it will drive away the console players and essentially kill the game. That being said if it’s too strong it will do the same with the PC players if it’s too strong.
> > > >
> > > > Once again , stop spreading missinformed lies … The halo infinite tech test still had to much aim assist and Controlers accuracy ranged from 50 to 60 % while best KBM players ranged between 40 and 50 % if i am very generous with it … And accuracy stats tanked if MKB used the BR while went off the charts when Controlers used the BR for an entire game … Our dozens of discord members who had access to the tech test tried MKB and Controlers on the same machine and had 10 to 15 % more accuracy stats in bots match than with MKB using the same playstyle and weapons … While PVP was broken and laggy so all stats here were pretty much irrevelant due to instability . But bots match were stable and predictable wich was a perfect test environement … 343 should know it by now and shouldnt make a decision to boost up aim assist for political purpose to satisfy a Aim assist fanatical base of players who are louder than others !
> > >
> > > Dude, it’s clearly you who is in the wrong It can’t be everybody else. Do you keep referencing your small group of test pilots was it, 15 people? Please give it up it’s just embarrassing now. there are countless people stating the same thing but very few like you claiming the opposite.
> >
> > The sample was decent enough to draw conclusion , we tested hundreads of games each , thousands of games as a whole … recorded all result , and saw a very specifics tendency and all players where from decent to very good … Very bad players of any inputs are irrevelant because they are very bad and are not indicative of anything we have decent to good players wich had similar result across hundreads of games , this patern will have repeated itself … The only senario we didnt test was on Xbone original , we only tested XboxSS and Xbox SX and PC with controlers and MKB so yeah … 343 should release the official data its totally impossible that they did not saw this trend hapening Controlers had 10 to 15% more accuracy than MKB counterpart in similar game with similar playstyle and weapons usage … its the reality like it or not … I know you are here to defend the status quo and defend the broken Halo aim assist but things need to change if this game is to survive
>
> 90% of the people that post on the Halo forum are controller users. You won’t get anywhere, M&K is definitely under represented in these discussions.
>
> These forums are just an echo chamber of sub-par skilled controller players shouting “we need more aim assist”.

Even when i used to play with controlers i HATED halo aim assist and any trash talker using easymode weapons who chalenge me 1 vs 1 i place us both in the same team and it was a Team killing Death match where they had no aim assist and they realised they cant aim and were addicted to the aimbot coolaids because they went 0 to 2 vs 20 +for me all the time … I had much respect for franchises like MAG on Ps3 and Killzone 2 and 3 because they did not made the game easymode for all , it required skills to aim and there was no aim stickyness or insane bullet bending …

Even for controlers players many have voiced concern with Halo aim assist and the Halo 5 notorious snipers aim assist wich had some backlash as well … Its not that they are controlers its that they are Aimbots fanboys or Aimassist dependant … They fear to be lessers players whithout it so they try to defend the status quo … But even many pro players have complained about how broken COD and HALO aim assist is …

Competitive skilled controlers players will not defend aim assist like these guys .

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not bump.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274854980999;322:
> > 2535407109813100;314:
> > > 2533274799110399;299:
> > > This is definitely a difficult thing to balance, and I am sure with more flighting they can get a better idea of how to balance this.
> >
> > Or just segregate both groups. Problem solved.
>
> This is truly the only way to keep things even. We need an option to only play against similar inputs. Even if a test is conducted with 50k MK players and 50k controller players with accuracy numbers within a single percent, MK players still have an advantage because of how quickly they can turn and locate enemies.

Even if separated compleatly Halo infinite controler pros and controlers skilled players DESERVE a FAIR and COMPETITIVE ENVIRONEMENT IN RANK Match … Both input are already confirmed to be separated into rank match but aiming skills MEAN NOTHING in Halo with controlers because of an outrageous aim assist system … Controler players with more aiming skills DERSERVE to be rewarded for it so Aim assist as to be tone down to the point of almost unexistance …

MKB existing in the sandbox is a very poor excuses trying to justify to keep halo a casual aimbot game with garbage unworthy broken aim assist aka Aimbots . They can have MCC options where you can lock input or platform for Social matchs and Rank match should be automatically input base so there will be no excuses if Low aim assist players decide to play agaisnt MKB and controlers in Social it will be their choices , and Rank match are segregated anyway

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more aim assist on controller please 343

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> > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > >
> > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > >
> > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > >
> > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> >
> > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> >
> > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> >
> > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
>
> When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.

Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist

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> > > > > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > >
> > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > >
> > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > >
> > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > >
> > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> >
> > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
>
> Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist

Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.

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> > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > > >
> > > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > > >
> > > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > > >
> > > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> > >
> > > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
> >
> > Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist
>
> Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.

you realise this game is developed for both platforms right? Regardless of how the controller player base feels, it is a game for both inputs. Respect their opinion.

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> > > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > > > >
> > > > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > > > >
> > > > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> > > >
> > > > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
> > >
> > > Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist
> >
> > Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.
>
> you realise this game is developed for both platforms right? Regardless of how the controller player base feels, it is a game for both inputs. Respect their opinion.

While true, I’m sure 343 heavily looks at what platform the majority of its player base is coming from

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/90a6869bcf944c54a17102ac9e31da1a/topics/controller-or-mouse-and-keyboard/c912a968-904a-44bd-95c2-b4f79b372e39/posts?page=1

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If aim assist ends up being that bad on controllers then just play with a controller. A controller being controlled by a keyboard and mouse through a device like a XIM4. Win win :slight_smile:

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> > > > > > > > 2533274805075298;312:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274822068856;2:
> > > > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> > > > >
> > > > > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
> > > >
> > > > Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist
> > >
> > > Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.
> >
> > you realise this game is developed for both platforms right? Regardless of how the controller player base feels, it is a game for both inputs. Respect their opinion.
>
> While true, I’m sure 343 heavily looks at what platform the majority of its player base is coming from
>
> https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/90a6869bcf944c54a17102ac9e31da1a/topics/controller-or-mouse-and-keyboard/c912a968-904a-44bd-95c2-b4f79b372e39/posts?page=1

Forums are not representative of anything from my experience not even 1% of the playerbase of anygame come on forums … And most Forums peoples those who stay and camp forums the Loud forums majority are most of the time exploits abusers , peoples wanting to defend broken mechanics or OP weapons , peoples who are stuck into nostalgia of ceretain era of a franchise and so on … Real sales and concurents players will speak more loudly and Free to play users … Halo will release its MP as a free to play tittle on steam so if you see over 80 000 concurents players on steam it mean there is a shittons of PC players wich the vast majority will prefer playing MKB but consoles players can also play MKB if they want to with the Xbone or Xbox Series S and X there is no problem there Also concurents players in the 50K mean almost millions of peoles play per day with a peak of 50 to 80k at the same time wich would be huge if its accomplish but it will acomplish if there is no over the top built in aimbots aka aim assist that destroy the skills base gameplay … This aim assist mentality as to end … controlers do not require aim assist to that level to aim properly especially not with a machine capable of 120 fps output !

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > > >
> > > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > > >
> > > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > > >
> > > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> > >
> > > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
> >
> > Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist
>
> Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.

Its totally irrevelant , i have proof that i was able to aim with pin point accuracy in games that had little to no aim assist what so ever . From red dead redemption Free aim on xbox to Killzone 2 &3 and MAG on ps3 . I never needed aim assistance to the extend halo brought it its pure junk and it need to stop … peoples need to grow real aiming skill and spare me your anatomy bias theory i can pin point on track pad with my thumbs more accuratly than with my hole hand and wrist so you are out of this world … MKB is indeed better at 1 thing and 1 thing only , Flickshots and Snipers thats all . The quality of the thumbstick also has a huge influence on your ability to aim properly the Dualshock from the Playstation 3 original had much better and more accurate sticks than lets say a cheap madcatz controler and the Elite controler has better thumbsticks than lets say the original X360 controlers and even with the cheap xbox controler i was able to play games with little to no aim assist what so ever

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> > > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > > > >
> > > > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > > > >
> > > > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> > > >
> > > > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
> > >
> > > Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist
> >
> > Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.

Yeah, the conversation is definitely over when people keep acting like Halo 2, 3, Reach, 4, and 5 didn’t have a large skill gap. You really are not a trustworthy person.

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’m just saying, aiming in Splitgate is much smoother and more controller friendly than it was in the Infinite preview, but M&K players are still dominant on the ranked leaderboards. So at the very least, having controller aim be as smooth as it is in Splitgate is a must.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This, the game currently feels hostile to the thumbs, and that’s not an AA problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I totally agree that aim in general feels off, especially the default settings. But I still feel aim assist is not quite where it should be. At times it felt good, and at other times, it felt like it dropped off almost completely. Whatever the case is, something is definitely not right with aiming on controller. That much nearly everyone agrees with. 343 should shed some light on what exactly is going on with aiming in Infinite.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > stop defending your point. Most people say it feels fine. AA is good where it is. Your responses dont make sense at all either. It was not just controller feeling the crappy aim. It was mnk too.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Most agree the aiming needs to be in general improved. Via an aim assist buff or whatever they need to do, its literally just yourself, stew and some annoying PC elitists who keep defending how it is currently.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > not defending pc elitism. Like i said before I’ve played on console too. Its not about the AA its about the aiming feeling. It felt heavy on both inputs overall (yes i have tested it on both the xbox and pc).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never said you were defending elitism but whilst you may be right about it feeling off, I’m still certain that the ‘AA/Aiming needs a buff’ camp is the majority.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > idk what to say because its not elitism. It’s actually my objective opinion about it. Personally, I have never aim trained on controller. Its just a pick up and play. On mnk it involves lots of training. Like peaking on 85k+ on aimlabs gridshot is not easy. Nobody wants a repetition of what happened on mcc where most of the controller pc players drove off the halo population. If you even think this about defending pc elitism, why would I call out those using a pc with a controller? Console controller players are fine and are skillful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To do well on a controller it’s not just pick and play far from it. With a keyboard and mouse, I can be precise which isn’t the same with a controller. Now I am not saying either is pick up and play, but with a keyboard and mouse on PC, I have a far superior range of sensitivity options. There needs to be a sweet spot between MCC aim assist and Infinites Aim assist.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what you are saying is not correct. I can be precise on the controller without having near the same amount of discipline as mnk, thanks to aim assist. Mnk was not the case for me. It took me a couple of hundred hours to practice my flicking and tracking (FYI i started off terribly on mnk. For gridshot i started off at 55k and peaked at 89k, which is above the average and is considered competent aim on mnk), and this does not factor in the hours I’ve played on mcc and other games. Too much AA on mcc gave controller players on pc to take advantage of AA far beyond the ranges of mnk AA. That was the largest imbalance i could have ever seen. But yes there needs to be a good balance of aim assist but slightly to the infinite side as opposed to the average between mcc and infinite.
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s just you though I’ve spent nearly two decades on both keyboard and controller I am not arguing about MCC everybody knows this about the AA. But the AA on infinite was really low. And I’ve seen constant PC K&M players saying it was too strong which is laughable. As I said there is a sweet spot between MCC and infinite for AA and that’s where it should land. If they keep AA too low it will drive away the console players and essentially kill the game. That being said if it’s too strong it will do the same with the PC players if it’s too strong.
> > > >
> > > > Once again , stop spreading missinformed lies … The halo infinite tech test still had to much aim assist and Controlers accuracy ranged from 50 to 60 % while best KBM players ranged between 40 and 50 % if i am very generous with it … And accuracy stats tanked if MKB used the BR while went off the charts when Controlers used the BR for an entire game … Our dozens of discord members who had access to the tech test tried MKB and Controlers on the same machine and had 10 to 15 % more accuracy stats in bots match than with MKB using the same playstyle and weapons … While PVP was broken and laggy so all stats here were pretty much irrevelant due to instability . But bots match were stable and predictable wich was a perfect test environement … 343 should know it by now and shouldnt make a decision to boost up aim assist for political purpose to satisfy a Aim assist fanatical base of players who are louder than others !
> > >
> > > Dude, it’s clearly you who is in the wrong It can’t be everybody elsme thing but very few like you claiming the opposite.
> >
> > The sample was decent enough to draw conclusion , we tested hundreads of games each , thousands of games as a whole … recorded all result , and saw a very specifics tendency and all players where from decent to very good … Very bad players of any inputs are irrevelant because they are very bad and are not indicative of anything we have decent to good players wich had similar result across hundreads of games , this patern will have repeated itself … The only senario we didnt test was on Xbone original , we only tested XboxSS and Xbox SX and PC with controlers and MKB so yeah … 343 should release the official data its totally impossible that they did not saw this trend hapening Controlers had 10 to 15% more accuracy than MKB counterpart in similar game with similar playstyle and weapons usage … its the reality like it or not … I know you are here to defend the status quo and defend the broken Halo aim assist but things need to change if this game is to survive
>
> 15 people are not enough to draw any conclusion whatsoever your process is flawed nobody is listening to you now everybody has cottoned on to you. Accept you are in the tiny minority on this subject and move on.

Its more than enough … Its funny how when lets say COD Warzone has a balance patch or a content patch with new guns and what not it only take me 10 minutes to realise a weapon is totally broken and overpower but yet somehow the " developpers " didnt saw that ? Then these broken builds that take 20 minutes to figure out to players like us spread like wild fire trough youtube and what not …

You wont be teaching to an old dog a new trick … We are competant enough and smart enough to have realised in this test environement the capability of both inputs methods and controlers were still at 10 to 15 % ahead MKB average in terms of accuracy wich is artificial , but still even if you pretend to want " artificial parity " with the help of aim assist then Aim assist need to be At least the very least TONE DOWN by 10% + and Aim assist and bullet bending on the BR need to be revisited , because the BR has an insane amount of bullet bending while scoped in wich make missing shot nearly impossible on controlers … So yeah keep ranting all you want , 343 have the data and if they increase the aim assist for Forums political reason then they will proove to be unworthy developpers who dont base decision on Facts but on fanatical emotions …

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> > > > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> > > > >
> > > > > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
> > > >
> > > > Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist
> > >
> > > Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.
>
> Yeah, the conversation is definitely over when people keep acting like Halo 2, 3, Reach, 4, and 5 didn’t have a large skill gap. You really are not a trustworthy person.

The so call " skill gap " was irrevelant to aiming skills beside Halo 2 and 3 Snipers , the Halo 5 sniper received aim assist where you can literally shoot 2 feet of the head and still get headshots … Halo BR as always been a " no aiming skill devices " at all , the so call skill in halo is being the most coward so as soon as you get shot you evade . there is no way you will outDPS a player who start shooting a BR first in your direction in an open area unless you get cover .or help … Team shots were one of the most important thing in Halo . Controling easy power weapons like the rocket etc… also etc…

Normally in a shooter game 40%+ of the outcome will come down to your ability to aim track , flick , snap shots precision and headshot everything related to aiming skills . But in halo it dosnt matter its hardly a thing to miss the" miss shots are only trying to prefire or fire while someone is getting in cover and so on … Halo insane aim assist as remooved this aspect " aiming " skills and precision beside snipers but in Halo 5 every aspect of aiming were reduced to less than 5 % of the outcome result …

Halo aim assist is atrocious and remoove one of the most important skills base factor of a shooter game … the other aspect like Map control , Team base gameplay , Strategies , positioning etc… remain intact as any game but the aim assist itself remoove the Skillgab of " precision , aiming skills , tracking skills etc…

My capacity to aim didnt came over night and also i am not always consistant i have better days or games than others lol

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> > > > > > > > > > MCC is far easier to play with a mouse and keyboard, than on a controller with aim assist.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Edit: Every single FPS/TPS game I’ve ever played on controller and keyboard and mouse, plays better on keyboard and mouse. Aim assist does not bridge the gap, unless almost all of the aiming is done for you. I can’t think of any FPS/TPS game that does that. The level of aim assist that’s currently in Infinite only makes the game frustrating to play with a controller. It’s counter intuitive.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There’s hardly any pros who use KB/M just so you know,.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Because they have had no reason to learn it in the last 15 years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are you just going to ignore the fact that he stated that to poke the massive holes in your logic?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If M&K was indeed “far easier to play with” and every single FPS “plays better on keyboard and mouse” and “Aim assist does not bridge the gap” why would pros not just hop on over to M&K? If it made them that much better than why haven’t any of them switched? Are you saying that pro controller gamers can only use controller and are incapable of learning and mastering a new input? Or are you saying that pro controller players are scared to leave their only known input for the last 15 years?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The simple fact is that it if they switched inputs it wouldn’t make them better and would more than likely leave them in a worse place.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When you’re very good at one thing, and you try a new thing you aren’t as good at, guess what you will naturally stick with? What happens when your peers don’t switch, and they can no longer compete with them? This goes far beyond the scope you present. You’re not seeing the big picture.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ninja was so call " Halo pro " on controler , and he as switch to MKB long ago and is advocating agaisnt aim assist calling it an aimbot wich is a aimbot especially in Halo , Fortnite and COD ( as soon as you moove the aim assist is fully engage in warzone ) etc… REAL pro want their aiming skills to matter in a shooter game not having Bot assisted hardcoded fake aiming , the only reason halo had a competitive scene regardless of its aim assistance its because peoples knew little to nothing about aim assist ,and many were fooled to beleive they were " that good " wich was the developpers intend to insert this level of broken aim assistance as well as smoothing our performance , but the cat is out of the hats for years now and Consoles hardware have more than the required performances to allow True aim with little to no aim assist
> > > >
> > > > Do I need to bring up human anatomy again? Look up how many muscles control the thumb, compared to how many control the the arm. Either way, 343 knows people aren’t happy about the current situation, and they have actual data to help them. They also know at this point that catering to the top 1% does not lead to a very successful game.
> > >
> > > you realise this game is developed for both platforms right? Regardless of how the controller player base feels, it is a game for both inputs. Respect their opinion.
> >
> > While true, I’m sure 343 heavily looks at what platform the majority of its player base is coming from
> >
> > https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/90a6869bcf944c54a17102ac9e31da1a/topics/controller-or-mouse-and-keyboard/c912a968-904a-44bd-95c2-b4f79b372e39/posts?page=1
>
> Forums are not representative of anything from my experience not even 1% of the playerbase of anygame come on forums … And most Forums peoples those who stay and camp forums the Loud forums majority are most of the time exploits abusers , peoples wanting to defend broken mechanics or OP weapons , peoples who are stuck into nostalgia of ceretain era of a franchise and so on … Real sales and concurents players will speak more loudly and Free to play users … Halo will release its MP as a free to play tittle on steam so if you see over 80 000 concurents players on steam it mean there is a shittons of PC players wich the vast majority will prefer playing MKB but consoles players can also play MKB if they want to with the Xbone or Xbox Series S and X there is no problem there Also concurents players in the 50K mean almost millions of peoles play per day with a peak of 50 to 80k at the same time wich would be huge if its accomplish but it will acomplish if there is no over the top built in aimbots aka aim assist that destroy the skills base gameplay … This aim assist mentality as to end … controlers do not require aim assist to that level to aim properly especially not with a machine capable of 120 fps output !

Seems like a bunch of assumptions/generalizations you just made there ^

Game forums, YouTube, surveys, Reddit are all places game companies look for feedback. Just from the sheer marketing that 343 has done about needing to become a “Halo Insider to test infinite” should push more people to this forum for feedback…

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When I played the flight I noticed that the amount of aim assist was very low compared to other halo games and honestly I was fine with it at first especially when fighting ODST and Spartan difficulty bots and lower. You know I would miss my shots here and there and get annoyed at myself but overall I managed to get quite a few perfect kills with the BR but prolly like 2 with the sidekick and just overall hit my shots and get headshots and managing to keep an accuracy of 45-55%, never got to play against actual people when social slayer came out tho :frowning: but I understand why people would want just a smidge more aim assist to compete against MnK users, as well as fixing up the whole sensitivity issues and what not. My issue I had when it came to aiming is not when I miss my shots due to the lack of aim assist but when my frames drop, I played the flight on my xbox one from 2013 cause it is all I own atm and just having those frames dropped quite a few times would honestly stuff me up big time causing me to lose most gunfights. I get where people are coming from and everyone’s points are valid and make sense but if a slight increase in aim assist will allow for an equal experience on both input devices and system than I say go for it. I just don’t want Halo Infinite to be a game where the experience is literal night and day depending on what system and input device you play on, I don’t want it ending up like a Destiny 2 situation where it is very clearly seen that MnK is so much superior in every way in terms of aiming and movement despite controller having aim assist. So if increasing the aim assist just a little bit to not only allow controllers to compete against MnK, but allow for easy use for casuals in social and being easier for new comers due to it being f2p, as well as not having absurd amounts like MCC to actually show that there is a present skill gap with aiming between players that use controller, why not accept it it seems like a pretty valid request?

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just have to get good at the game to play with aim assist players.

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One thing I hate is when M&K players incorrectly assume that aim assist on controller gives an unfair advantage. It doesn’t, if done right. Aim assist is there to do what it says: “assist.” It’s a compromise because aiming with thumbstick is far less accurate than the precision of a mouse. Frankly, despite enjoying the flight I had a horrible time with my aim on controller. It was slow and sluggish and I couldn’t track targets as well as I could in older Halo games and other FPS titles. It was like there was no aim assist at all sometimes. Unless you make a literal aimbot for controller like GTA or Red Dead Redemption, M&K will always have the advantage.