343 needs to tell us the truth.

Games Other Halo
1

343i. I’d like to say that you did a very good job at making this game. But there were a few things that let it down. The campaign was close to flawless and Spartan ops just needed a little more excitement, gameplay wise. But multilayer was obviously the big conundrum.

The following list of major rants come in chronological order:
*OP Boltshot (Now fixed)
*OP DMR
*No ingame rank (sort of fixed with CSR)
*Lack of small maps (fixed with majestic)
*Spartan Ops being too Bald (fixed with episode 6-10)
*Lack of forge space (fixed with forge island)
*Buggy Lighting on forge maps (fixed with forge island)
*Now it’s GDC direction disgrace.

In general, we highly appreciate these fixed to common problems. But most of this should of been considered during beta stages. Which is also why not doing a public beta was the main wrong turn in Halo 4’s development.

I now see two faces of 343.

One face likes to cut the content we don’t complain about and introduce new content regardless of community feedback. They do this just to make it stand up to other shooters in the market and influence the most popular communities (eg. COD) to play Halo. The Microsoft department, and the ones who want to turn this game into a generic FPS are a good example of the people on this side.

The other face are the employers at 343 who listen to us and try to make the changes necessary to make the game better and as soon as possible. They would be determined to bring back classic content that defines Halo as well as introducing new content that no other game already has. bs_angel, MLGBravo, and Certain Affinity are good examples of people on this side.

As you may of already guessed, the red bit is what we want less of, and the green bit is what we want more of.

But on the main note:

343 industries. We know that you listen to us, but we also see that you might be afraid to admit that you rejected a lot of our ideas. But these suggestions will only cool down the rage of many people in this community.

Could you please do an article on why popular demands of content can or cannot be in the game?

We don’t care if it’s too completed to understand. We want the full information to prove that you have tried something and gave good reasoning to why it’s better off not in the game. Especially features that were in previous titles.

It will answer a lot of question the community keep on asking. Hiding these facts will get fans assuming that you are just being lazy and taking your own route.

Could you possibly release videos of the full process of how the development team make updates?

Try filming people fixing bugs or redesigning some of the gameplay mechanics just to prove that they are doing what we asked for.

Overall, you need to prove that you are listening to us if you want us to listen to you.

Vote, Thank, and Discuss!

EDIT: Here are some sample questions that need to be answered in full detail by specialist staff at 343i in order to reduce the amount of people complaining about them:

*Why didn’t you do a public beta for a game that would take a lot of risks?
*Why is there no Classic Playlist?
*Why have you limited some of the custom game options?
*What made you think it was a good idea to have the monitor make loud noises in forge?
*Why didn’t you use dedicated servers?
*Why is it impossible to put CSR in game when you can easily give a mastery title to a player at SR130?
*What made you decide to have a new white “X” that follows the dead body rather than the conventional red “X” that just indicates the position of death?
*Why did you cut gametypes such 1 flag, assault, classic territories, VIP, and classic juggernaut?
*Why is there no Mark VI [Gen 2] armour in multiplayer? it was massively used in the opening CGI cut scene. Same applies to Mark V, ODST, Hayabusa, Rogue, and the GRD helmet you kept on teasing us in the defiant map pack and anniversary map pack.
*Why are there no human air vehicles in multiplayer?
*Why can’t we customise our colours for flood?

2

I agree with you to some extent, I like new content but only innovative new content. Armor abilities=innovative, perks and point streak awards=not innovative.

3

I personally trust 343 Industries whole-heartedly.
While I don’t need this, I would like to see something like this.
And I’m certain the majority of the community would as well.
Therefore, I support this.

4

> I personally trust 343 Industries whole-heartedly.
> While I don’t need this, I would like to see something like this.
> And I’m certain the majority of the community would as well.
> Therefore, I support this.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> If you enjoy Halo 4 but understand it’s faults, feel free to join us!
> We’re looking for respectful members who want to improve Halo’s future.
> Here you’ll find intelligent conversations and interesting opinions.
> Help us, help 343 Industries, to help you.
>
> Peaceful Movement To Improve Halo 4
>
> -Pur3

Cheers man! This suggestion could take part in the peaceful movement for halo 4 that you have a link to in your banner.

Though you might not need this. But it would answer tonnes of questions that are commonly asked in the GDC thread like “Why are they doing this?” and “Why didn’t they do that?”.

Giving the full details of the things members of the community are concerned about would be for the better.

5

This thread is in respect to the Peaceful Movement To Improve Halo 4.

6

What Do You mean they’d lie to us?!
/Sarcasm

From what I can tell they are actually looking at this board, I know it’s amazing to me as well. But they must be so they know we’re disappointed that we had our hopes up built upon their word only to have it crushed.

H4 as it is isn’t polished. Yes it lacks major glitches and such but that doesn’t mean it isn’t polished.

The reason we’re having to post these threads is so basic. I found this video and realized how much of an analogy this is to the situation here. 343I’s admitting of catering to the non fans is truly at the heart of this. Just watch and then read below. Link 1:24

We were told all this time H4 would be like H3 and that they were similar. Then we got it and at first we were fine, Nice campaign, SpOps was new so we checked it out as well.
Then we played MP and saw as those people, who only bought H4 because it was new and not because they cared about halo, who’d normally play COD get the metaphorical grape.

So what did we do we went into custom games, tried to find the competitive playlist only to have to settle for infinity slayer, tried forge, and all we got was a cucumber so what did we do?

Time passes BlOps2 is out they leave. Those that stick around still get grapes though. As for the rest of us? Can we have red x (grape)? Nope but you can have a white x that moves and is up for about 1/4 of a second(cucumber).

Now we know that the grapes were never intended to be given to us.

7

> What Do You mean they’d lie to us?!
> /Sarcasm
>
> From what I can tell they are actually looking at this board, I know it’s amazing to me as well. But they must be so they know we’re disappointed that we had our hopes up built upon their word only to have it crushed.
>
> H4 as it is isn’t polished. Yes it lacks major glitches and such but that doesn’t mean it isn’t polished.
>
> The reason we’re having to post these threads is so basic. I found this video and realized how much of an analogy this is to the situation here. 343I’s admitting of catering to the non fans is truly at the heart of this. Just watch and then read below. Link 1:24
>
> We were told all this time H4 would be like H3 and that they were similar. Then we got it and at first we were fine, Nice campaign, SpOps was new so we checked it out as well.
> Then we played MP and saw as those people, who only bought H4 because it was new and not because they cared about halo, who’d normally play COD get the metaphorical grape.
>
> So what did we do we went into custom games, tried to find the competitive playlist only to have to settle for infinity slayer, tried forge, and all we got was a cucumber so what did we do?
>
> Time passes BlOps2 is out they leave. Those that stick around still get grapes though. As for the rest of us? Can we have red x (grape)? Nope but you can have a white x that moves and is up for about 1/4 of a second(cucumber).
>
> Now we know that the grapes were never intended to be given to us.

I do agree with this, but the main thing we want to know is WHY they made these choices and WHAT influenced them to do so.

Halo 4 is a good halo game from what I see, but started to only play it once a week or less often. This is mainly because I just don’t have the time and none of my friends play it any more. I’ve currently got exams coming up and I got myself into the system of avoiding games that take up a long time (eg. planetside 2, gmod, battlefield 3, dota 2, supreme commander 2, and this). Though I still tend to play Minecraft the odd time since I can just get into it straight away and make some sort of progression in less than 5 minutes.

90% of halo 4’s new content are grapes to me. But 10% is still cucumber.

We all knew it would be a risk to introduce these features. It was pulled off well at launch but common issues that they avoid to be fix (like in-game CSR, DMR nerf, failed to make a working “red X”, and Custom Game Options) need to be explained.
We just need answers to why 343i are intending to carry on making decisions that risk the decline of population.

8

I don’t understand the question of the poll. Why should we tell you whether we THINK that they should prove to us that they listen to us when they TOLD us that they decided amongst themselves already that they are heading in the correct direction?

> … the main thing we want to know is WHY they made these choices and WHAT influenced them to do so…

GDC13 speaker for 343i Josh Homes I believe told us why… that the employees of 343i believe that they are doing it right… they believe that they are doing it right, and our outcries have apparently no affect on their thinking.

9

> I don’t understand the question of the poll. Why should we tell you whether we THINK that they should prove to us that they listen to us when they TOLD us that they decided amongst themselves already that they are heading in the correct direction?

I’m sorry if I worded it wrong. It’s basically saying “Does the rest of the community agree with this idea”

The point I’m trying to get across is that to many people are assuming 343 are just simply incompetent at doing anything right. These people are pretty much asking 343 the same questions:
“WHY HAS THIS BEEN DONE?”
“WHAT WAS STOPPING YOU FROM DOING THIS?”

It would be good for 343 to answer these questions, regardless of technicalities of alternative decision.

In my mind, it’s better than just saying “umm and ahh…We wish to listen to the community in the future” etc.

10

> > … the main thing we want to know is WHY they made these choices and WHAT influenced them to do so…
>
> GDC13 speaker for 343i Josh Homes I believe told us why… that the employees of 343i believe that they are doing it right… they believe that they are doing it right, and our outcries have apparently no affect on their thinking.

I can understand it from that respect, but from that statement, it sounds like they failed to realise that Halo is a community fuelled franchise. If Halo 4’s multiplayer consisted 50% more of what the community wanted, it would be less criticized since they would be blaming themselves as a whole.

I can understand that elements of the campaign had to be put into the multiplayer and Spartan ops (eg. Loudouts, AAs, sprint, no elites). But that doesn’t give them a reason to cut the classic components and custom game options out, and not supply us with ranked and classic playlists on launch.

11

The one issue that i would like to know more than anything besides the obvious ones that are being raged over everyday all day long is just this.

Why didn’t 343 have dedicated servers for their first game, especially one like Halo?Where precision aiming and timing is necessary(although not so much now due to the bizarre AA and BM)?Did they check their own servers before letting them go live?Why did they not hold a open beta to test how everything would run in unknown conditions?

These are just some of my major questions about Halo 4, which the reason i stopped playing after i reached SR130 was due to lag since i attained SR130 roughly a month after release.Which by then i could no longer find a game that i did not lag in unless i was host.

Even if they do everything everyone wants and makes the perfect Halo in Halo 5, i will not play it if there is lag.Trust me it was never me i can assure you.Due to the fact i could play many other games with very little to no lag and in the MMO Guild Wars i have on average a 20-70ms ping.So that would indicate that i am not the cause of lag.

12

WHO WOULD VOTE NO FOR THIS??

13

> The one issue that i would like to know more than anything besides the obvious ones that are being raged over everyday all day long is just this.
>
> Why didn’t 343 have dedicated servers for their first game, especially one like Halo?Where precision aiming and timing is necessary(although not so much now due to the bizarre AA and BM)?Did they check their own servers before letting them go live?Why did they not hold a open beta to test how everything would run in unknown conditions?
>
> These are just some of my major questions about Halo 4, which the reason i stopped playing after i reached SR130 was due to lag since i attained SR130 roughly a month after release.Which by then i could no longer find a game that i did not lag in unless i was host.
>
> Even if they do everything everyone wants and makes the perfect Halo in Halo 5, i will not play it if there is lag.Trust me it was never me i can assure you.Due to the fact i could play many other games with very little to no lag and in the MMO Guild Wars i have on average a 20-70ms ping.So that would indicate that i am not the cause of lag.

I totally understand these suggestions. This made me edit the topic to include popular questions that need to be answered.

They include:

*Why didn’t you do a public beta for a game that would take a lot of risks?
*Why is there no Classic Playlist?
*Why have you limited some of the custom game options?
*What make you think it was a good idea to have the monitor make loud noises in forge?
*Why didn’t you use dedicated servers?
*Why is it impossible to put CSR in game when you can easily give a mastery title to a player at SR130?
*What made you decide to have a new white “X” that follows the dead body rather than the conventional red “X” that just indicates the position of death?
*Why did you cut gametypes such 1 flag, assault, classic territories, VIP, and classic juggernaut?
*Why is there no Mark VI [Gen 2] armour in multiplayer? it was massively used in the opening CGI cut scene. Same applies to Mark V, ODST, Hayabusa, Rogue, and the GRD helmet you kept on teasing us in the defiant map pack and anniversary map pack.

14

Here is the bottom line. If they told us, “We heard you, we understand, we cannot make the investment into Halo 4 to make the fixes necessary, but we are determined not to repeat the mistakes with Halo 5”, then all would be good and those of us passionate about Halo would just need to wait and no more need to fret in open forum like we do.

But with comments that clearly show they have their agenda, that as the collective they have charted their vision, and they have no intentions of changing course, our hopes are forever dashed and there appears to be no turning back. The question remains, therefore, does complaining any further make a difference?

I say no.

15

Proof they are listening to us:

> *OP Boltshot (Now fixed)
> *No ingame rank (sort of fixed with CSR)
> *Lack of small maps (fixed with majestic)
> *Spartan Ops being too Bald (fixed with episode 6-10)
> *Lack of forge space (fixed with forge island)
> *Buggy Lighting on forge maps (fixed with forge island)

Posts about why some suggestions will or won’t be implemented? Ok, I guess I can see and would appreciate this. Vids of them changing the source? Now that’s just silly and unnecessary. Proof they are making changes, is, well, the changes themselves, right? Also, I would assume that since most of the changes are things the community has been asking for that they are actual changes that are a direct result of the community’s outreach. Otherwise, why make the changes at all? Theoretically, they would have already made the changes before launch if those were changes they already felt should have been made and not just ones the community voiced to them. Sure, some of them may have been planned out from the beginning, like forge island, but probably not things like weapon tweaks. Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it. Won’t hurt my feelings either way.

16

> Proof they are listening to us:
>
>
>
> > *OP Boltshot (Now fixed)
> > *No ingame rank (sort of fixed with CSR)
> > *Lack of small maps (fixed with majestic)
> > *Spartan Ops being too Bald (fixed with episode 6-10)
> > *Lack of forge space (fixed with forge island)
> > *Buggy Lighting on forge maps (fixed with forge island)
>
> …

I do not concur. The evidence is inadequate to assert your conclusion.

17

OF COURSE, COMMUNICATION IS MANDATORY. THEY SHOULD PROVIDE AS MUCH INFORMATION TO THEIR COMMUNITY. THIS IS AN EXCELLENT THREAD.

They should be updating their game as frequent as possible and communicating to the community, period.

18

In my personal opinion the truth is already present, been commented on and continues to be what the sustain team evolve with.

Halo 4 is 343i’s vision of a new Halo game at launch. They consolidated many playlists, settings and updated to the modern shooter mechanics from many other influential titles and innovated where they could e.g. SPOPS, John & Cortana, Forward Onto Dawn. They delivered outstanding graphics and performance on very old console hardware as we see the game engine limitations due to that.

343i had a new studio to build, Halo 4 to produce, FuD to produce and the entire Halo franchise to unify under their 343i management e.g. merchandise, story, books etc. They also had to come to terms with their relatively new experience in working with the Reach/TU engine evolving into the Halo 4 engine and most likely another engine branch for other Halo games or Halo 5 next generation too.

We’ve seen topics, bulletins, letters and staff tweets all communicating they wanted to stick to their guns with their visions for Halo 4 at launch. Personally since approx. JAN I feel we’ve seen a major shift in supporting more diverse playlists, improved communication and specialising settings/playlists to the many segments of Halo play styles.

In short we received a 343i Halo 4 game, SPOPS, FuD, CGI story, state of the art graphics, cool remix contests but fell short on the wide range of features and customisation that previous Halo game engines have supported e.g. forge customisation/features, campaign scoring, campaign theatre, arena settings, small maps and a focus on that 4v4 style gameplay.

Overall the truth to me is we got a fresh new experience across the board with Halo 4 in terms of campaign/SPOPS/books etc. Regarding multiplayer specifically 343i either didn’t have the resources, time or missed the mark in providing some staples such as a couple of Forge features, some Firefight/scoring/skulls replayability and Arena style maps/settings/ranks. Playlist management is always going to be a hotly debated topic and the best course of action is regular informed updates, this new year has seen great support.

343i certainly did provide many award winning features in campaign, offline content and SPOPS and moving forward since the new year the sustain team are doing everything to update experiences across the board. Obviously they are limited to how much redevelopment of the engine or settings can be done with respect to multiplayer. Truth here is for the resources allocated to sustain Halo 4 we are receiving regular updates, map packs, open communication and have official feedback mechanisms. We as a community need to realise there is only so much that can be done from a resources point of view.

For Halo 4 I hope we see a return of one sided objective games, more smaller maps and continue to see updated settings through all playlists. For Halo 5 I hope to see more multiplayer engine innovation by way of in game system to handle:

Ranked, social, clans (combined with a new XBL clan system, similar to Halo 2), a streaming/rendering system, return of assault, improved map quality for less random encounters and more structure play (e.g. The Pit, Zanzibar, Ivory Tower, Turf, Terminal, Elongation). I also hope for some unexpected surprises too.

However to say they aren’t telling the truth is a stretch at best. If you watch the PAX panel you’ll see direct answers of no this won’t be done for Halo 4 release or yes we already did that or yes we’re doing a version 3 of that now etc. I don’t see any under the table dealings or purposeful misleading by 343i. Your thread title is too polarising and inaccurate if you ask me.

Here’s my personal replies/speculation to your direct questions:

*Why didn’t you do a public beta for a game that would take a lot of risks?
A: No need for a public beta with a well developed engine like Reach’s that formed the base for Halo 4. The public want a beta for early access to a game and rarely are the mechanics of a game altered from a beta. Beta’s are more for testing netcode, matchmaking etc. If you look at the resources Ms Test Labs, 343i, outsourced testers and the Microsoft employees/NDA’s testers do they literally already have alpha/beta tests.

*Why is there no Classic Playlist?
A: I felt this was sorely missed at launch but I understand they really wanted to push their version of a new Halo game. They’ve since worked in the last few months to provide a classic experience with Doubles and Team Throwdown. They have ex MLG pros on staff and creating/working/play-testing these maps/settings. Great support now but a missed staple of the franchise at launch.

*Why have you limited some of the custom game options?
A: To me it’s about consolidating the playlists/settings to keep populations healthy and a unified game across the board. Reach lost its way big time and was very splintered. I also think this was a time issue and they ran out of time to deliver as much as the community wants.

*What make you think it was a good idea to have the monitor make loud noises in forge?
A: Come on that is cool, remember Backwash from Halo 2 and the monitor was flying around and all chatty like during multiplayer games. That was cool.

*Why didn’t you use dedicated servers?
A: I too would like to see a BF3 style dedicated official/player rented servers. Being an exclusive title on xbox live we won’t see this unless XBL/MS want Halo to go this route. Personally I’d lease my own Melbourne, Australia server hands down and wish they would introduce a platinum xbox live service for this with next generation and Halo 5.

*Why is it impossible to put CSR in game when you can easily give a mastery title to a player at SR130?
A: The business investment to make this a technical reality is too much, that’s the sting. It wasn’t in there at launch and it’s now Waypoint only as a post launch support feature. I’d like to see the return to Halo 3 style Ranked/Social with Halo 5.

*What made you decide to have a new white “X” that follows the dead body rather than the conventional red “X” that just indicates the position of death?
A: The Red X has in fact been white in one other Halo multiplayer game.

*Why did you cut gametypes such 1 flag, assault, classic territories, VIP, and classic juggernaut?
A: They built the scripts up from scratch and this takes development time. Personally I’d guess they have altered the engine so the “old scripts” from previous games are simply incompatible now with Halo 4. Hence they don’t have the resources to rebuilt every single game mode or Forge customisation now.

*Why is there no Mark VI [Gen 2] armour in multiplayer? it was massively used in the opening CGI cut scene. Same applies to Mark V, ODST, Hayabusa, Rogue, and the GRD helmet you kept on teasing us in the defiant map pack and anniversary map pack.
A: We received the most armour variants of any Halo game so far, I find it interesting you’d want to wear the same old armour every game. Each to their own I suppose. Also the game engine updates dictate new textures, models, animations, progression integration etc. It’s not as simple as importing them from Halo 3. Most likely also to create a unique look for 343i Halo 4 over just another Halo 3 again.

19

Personally, I think so much was cut from the game in an effort to push Halo 4 out before BO 2 and make maximum profit on early sales. An effort demanded by Microsoft.

The alternative is that 343 truly does not care. And until I see rock solid proof, I refuse to believe that.

20

so i have the limited edition halo 4, and it was clearly stated that the first 3 map packs would be free to download, but now the 3rd one, castle map pack, we only will get at a discount, therefore i feel like i’m losing part of what i paid for when i brought the limited edition halo 4