343 needs to be ambitious

Halo 4 is amazing and in my opinion it is the perfect continuation for the franchise. It adds to the universe in a meaningful way and it has a beautiful rich art style, which encompasses multiple facets of the universe. The cut scenes and in game assassinations are animated realistically. The story is amazing and the deaths that happen in the campaign are moving. The game play is a step above every other halo game because it includes more realistic physics and added weight to the player. You can hear the powerful movement of armor as John moves in the campaign and a sizable jump moves the helmet around you. In a non-vacuum map, jumping off a ledge is met with air resistance that shakes your character before you smack into the ground. The weapons feel a lot more powerful thanks to realistic sounds and animations. They also include the parabolic arc that projectile motion requires. The A.I. in h4 was very smart and none of the new enemies felt like cannon fodder because they worked together perfectly. The vertical and open feel of the maps from reach is preserved for the most part. The multiplayer game modes are very fun.

In this universe, there are stealthy and strong super soldiers that can run 60km/h. My point is, the gameplay should not be limited. For H5 here should be at least 64 players in MP, destructible environments, massive maps, even more realistic physics, and a certain character they killed off in H4 should remain dead.

Great joke mate; you had me for a second there.

Waypoint in a Nutshell
Step 1: Blame competitive / traditional fans as per usual.
Step 2: Simultaneously spout ignorant nonsense.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.

> They are the reason there is no dlc in matchmaking and they caused the removal of dominion. They also made them implement small, stale, and symmetrical forge maps.

The DLC maps are the best 4v4 maps, and we rely on forge because the vanilla maps are terrible Why would competitive players want either of those things removed? Both of those things directly benefit competitive players.

As for dominion, it got removed because no one was playing it. No one demanded it be removed, I enjoyed the concept personally.

In short, nothing you listed is the fault of anyone.

> The problem with this is Halo needed to change its game play.

Why, exactly? Because you dislike the traditional play? World doesn’t revolve around you.

> Halo fans need to ignore the notion that halo is moon jumpy gameplay on small symmetrical maps with small amounts of weapons.

We don’t need to ignore anything.
The only thing that needs to be done is for you to stop forcing your views on us.

In all seriousness, the only thing that needs to be done is for 343I to pursue what will be most successful and profitable to themselves, regardless if that’s traditional play or not.

> Destructible environments, massive maps, rpg elements, more stealth elements, dead space like low gravity thruster combat, and more open environments.

Fine by me, just don’t expect anyone to buy it.

> Despite what the arena gamer fan base says, halo 4 is amazing.

I’d say that is more opinion than fact.

> In fact, it is the perfect continuation for the franchise.

Disagree with you there.

> It adds to the universe in a meaningful way and it has a beautiful rich art style, which encompasses multiple facets of the universe. The cut scenes and in game assassinations are animated realistically.

The game looks pretty, sure. Up close anyway. I’ve noticed odd renderings of structures in the distance on maps like Exile. Looks like clay.

> The story is amazing and the deaths that happen in the campaign are moving.

At times the story is pretty good, I’ve grown to appreciate it more over the past year.

> The game play is a step above every other halo game because it includes more realistic physics and added weight to the player. You can hear the powerful movement of armor as John moves in the campaign and a sizable jump moves the helmet around you. In a non-vacuum map, jumping off a ledge is met with air resistance that shakes your character before you smack into the ground. The weapons feel a lot more powerful thanks to realistic sounds and animations. They also include the parabolic arc that projectile motion requires. The A.I. in h4 was very smart and <mark>none of the new enemies felt like cannon fodder because they worked together perfectly.</mark>

The Prometheans, sans the Crawlers, were the very definition of bullet sponges.

> The vertical and open feel of the maps from reach is preserved for the most part. The multiplayer game modes are very fun.

Ricochet is fun, everything else is pretty much par for the course. Not being able to drop the flag in CTF is still a pain in the rear though.

> With that said, 343 should quit listening to the members of the fan base who cannot accept change.

You do know change isn’t always a good thing, right?

> They are the reason there is no dlc in matchmaking and they caused the removal of dominion.

How?

> They also made them implement small, stale, and symmetrical forge maps.

Nobody put a gun to 343i’s head.

> They are devolving halo and 343 should stop listening to them. The only criteria they have for a halo game is that it should exactly like Ce, H2 , or H3.

Ah, so you admit to not reading any actual posts for the suggestion of Halo’s gameplay moving forward. Would some fans like gameplay more like the older titles? Sure, but that isn’t a bad thing. Hell, that gameplay worked for over a decade.

> The problem with this is halo needed to change its game play. H4 was a step in the right direction, but they need to go the extra mile with halo 5. They should try and implement some of the ambitious ideas that Ryan Payton had in mind for H4 into h5. From what I’ve gathered Payton’s h4 vision wouldn’t have been that much different story wise, but the game play he had in mind probably included things like destructible environments, rpg elements, more stealth elements, dead space like low gravity thruster combat, and more open environments. (This is speculation I’m basing off of the two versions of the initial teaser trailer and some interviews with Frank) Halo fans need to ignore the notion that halo is moon jumpy gameplay on small symmetrical maps with small amounts of weapons. Halo is a vast sci-fi universe that weaves its way through books and games and h4 takes arcs from the previous trilogy and novels to exciting new places. In this universe, there are stealthy and strong super soldiers that can run 60km/h. My point is, the gameplay should not be limited by the arena gamer ideals. For H5 here should be at least 64 players in MP, destructible environments, massive maps, even more realistic physics, and a certain character they killed off in H4 should remain dead. This death was impactful and undoing it would be like bringing a certain BrBa character back from the dead.

So at what point does Halo remain Halo? Adding new things isn’t bad, but given how Ryan Patton left 343i in 2011, I don’t think his vision would’ve been a good one. Just looking at what you have, that kind of game doesn’t feel like a Halo one. Why does Halo need RPG elements for example?

Honestly, this thread isn’t going to help anything and is just blaming a part of the fanbase without explaining why they are to blame for anything.

@Ramir3z77
I know my views on this subject are very sacrilegious for these forums, but halo is more than just the traditional game play.

> @Ramir3z77
> I know my views on this subject are very sacrilegious for these forums, but halo is more than just the traditional game play.

Your views aren’t sacrilegious, but claiming to them to be facts and suggesting that an entire group of the fanbase is wrong is pretty ignorant.

343 were ambitious with Halo 4. They released an unfinished game that made so many changes that 90% of the community had left within the first 3 months post release. I’m sure Microsoft had a lot to do with this.

If 343 decide to ignore the community, you can expect the Halo community to die out faster than it has in Halo 4. The next Halo for many people is make or break. 343 can’t afford not to listen to our feedback. They need to cater for the majority meaning Halo needs to go back to it’s roots, a game that everyone can enjoy.

You don’t need all these broken mechanics to enjoy Halo. If so, I suggest finding a different franchise because that isn’t “Halo”. Halo is a balanced, competitive arena shooter for all to enjoy.

> With that said, 343 should quit listening to the members of the fan base who cannot accept change. They are the reason there is no dlc in matchmaking and they caused the removal of dominion.

What?

DLC maps ARE in Matchmaking, there is just no playlist for them exclusively, because the low population would make search times unbearable and matches would lag more often. Dominion was removed for similar reasons.

> They also made them implement small, stale, and symmetrical forge maps.

What?

When Halo 4 launched, there were only 10 maps (3 forge maps). 4 small maps, 6 medium-large maps. Forge maps had to be included.

> They are devolving halo and 343 should stop listening to them. The only criteria they have for a halo game is that it should exactly like Ce, H2 , or H3.

What?

Any Halo player since Halo CE KNOWS each game has been different enough to warrant a new game. (Halo 2 and 3 were the most similar games).

> The problem with this is halo needed to change its game play. H4 was a step in the right direction, but they need to go the extra mile with halo 5. They should try and implement some of the ambitious ideas that Ryan Payton had in mind for H4 into h5. From what I’ve gathered Payton’s h4 vision wouldn’t have been that much different story wise, but the game play he had in mind probably included things like destructible environments, rpg elements, more stealth elements, dead space like low gravity thruster combat, and more open environments. (This is speculation I’m basing off of the two versions of the initial teaser trailer and some interviews with Frank)

What?

Halo 4 added to much, to fast, and did not test if it would work in a Halo game. Fully customized load-outs in Halo 4 are a joke, with a 1 shot-kill weapon and long range weapons, and with perks that take away base player traits we had in previous games.

They removed Descope for no reason and was replaced by Flinch, which completely messed with how long-range engagements played out, and made the Sniper Rifle even more OP at range.

Sprint is still debatable.

Ryan Payton’s Halo 4 probably would’ve killed off the series. It would be yet another game on the market that tries to copy all the big games, has no identity, fails terribly, and is mocked and laughed at by fans and non-fans of the series.

> Halo fans need to ignore the notion that halo is moon jumpy gameplay on small symmetrical maps with small amounts of weapons.

What?

To ignore that, you ignore Halo itself.

Halo is known best for 2 things. The Campaign, and small-scale competitive Multiplayer.

It is also known to try and balance the weapon sandbox, reducing weapon clones that Modern FPS’s are known for. Each weapon is unique, and not a carbon copy.

> Halo is a vast sci-fi universe that weaves its way through books and games and h4 takes arcs from the previous trilogy and novels to exciting new places. In this universe, there are stealthy and strong super soldiers that can run 60km/h.

Don’t forget the TV series soon.

> My point is, the gameplay should not be limited by the arena gamer ideals. For H5 here should be at least 64 players in MP, destructible environments, massive maps, even more realistic physics.

Now you are just looking for Battlefield: Halo, NOT Halo 5. Halo does not need 64 players, 24-32 would be efficient.

Destructible environments would be a nice addition, and has actually been in a Halo game before. Halo 2.

Massive maps would indeed need to be a priority, since with the Xbox One, 343 can add more players and vehicles, and they have a LOT more power to use.

Realistic physics… ehhhhh. For vehicles, sure. But nobody dare touch the ragdoll physics of dead bodies.

> @Ramir3z77
> I know my views on this subject are very sacrilegious for these forums, but halo is more than just the traditional game play.

So what is it, the name? The art style? The lore?

You can’t have a series without some form of consistency. That’s not an opinion, that’s simply fact. Otherwise, it would not be a series. While yes, there is still consistency in these aspects, you want to remove any consistency from the multiplayer portion of the game.

You are the minority. No, I’m not referring to casuals. I’m referring to people who think taking everything that defined Halo Multiplayer in the past and throwing it out the window magically makes the game “more Halo”.

That is backwards -Yoink- logic. If you want to play a large scale sci-fi game why not go to Planetside 2 or ask for a new IP? Why -Yoink- up an existing IP people actually enjoy?

You jump the shark when the series is dying, not while it’s still alive. Halo Reach was a mis-step but it was still at least up there in the charts.

@DecepticonCobra"Honestly, this thread isn’t going to help anything and is just blaming a part of the fanbase without explaining why they are to blame for anything."

I might have forgot to mention that the competitive fans I’m referencing contantly post mountains hateful garbage on halowaypoint, the halo subreddit, neogaf and everywhere else on the internet. These posts have prompted 343 to make changes to the matchmaking that I find unfavorable. All their arguments are pure pathos and logical fallacies. They say things like “343 is ruining halo because they added sprint and that is going to cause people to stop playing!!! Halo is dad!”

> > @Ramir3z77
> > I know my views on this subject are very sacrilegious for these forums, but halo is more than just the traditional game play.
>
> So what is it, the name? The art style? The lore?
>
> You can’t have a series without some form of consistency. That’s not an opinion, that’s simply fact. Otherwise, it would not be a series. While yes, there is still consistency in these aspects, you want to remove any consistency from the multiplayer portion of the game.
>
> You are the minority. No, I’m not referring to casuals. I’m referring to people who think taking everything that defined Halo Multiplayer in the past and throwing it out the window magically makes the game “more Halo”.
>
> That is backwards -Yoink!- logic. If you want to play a large scale sci-fi game why not go to Planetside 2 or ask for a new IP? Why -Yoink!- up an existing IP people actually enjoy?
>
> You jump the shark when the series is dying, not while it’s still alive. Halo Reach was a mis-step but it was still at least up there in the charts.

Halo is its massive scifi universe and it should not be limited to oudated gameplay.

> > The problem with this is Halo needed to change its game play.
>
> Why, exactly? Because you dislike the traditional play? World doesn’t revolve around you.

Neither does it revolve around you or any other traditional Halo fan. You can’t even establish precedence of your viewpoint over his in this regard because you can’t make it stand that the traditional audience is a more important one. There are inevitably more people who didn’t play Halo back in the day (and can thus appreciate it’s traditional format) than those that did. There is thus inevitably a smaller audience for traditional content than new. This is why even well established franchises (look to any book, film, or TV series for this) over time try to vary their approach, style, or even content. It’s to find still more fans and still more potential success, accepting that what they did is still short of the mark of what they can do with a slightly different approach. And Halo, being the lagging multi-billion dollar franchise that it is, has more cause than most to change.

> They say things like “343 is ruining halo because they added sprint and that is going to cause people to stop playing!!! Halo is dad!”

Is ignoring their criticisms and making strawman arguments out of those criticisms any less of a fallacy?

Every time I hear “They only want Halo to be BR + Nades” it irritates me.

> Halo is its massive scifi universe and it should not be limited to oudated gameplay.

That sounds more like an opinion than a fact. You are subjectively weighing more importance on the campaign than the multiplayer.

The “outdated gameplay” was a major reason why people bought Halo to begin with.

> @DecepticonCobra"Honestly, this thread isn’t going to help anything and is just blaming a part of the fanbase without explaining why they are to blame for anything."
>
> I might have forgot to mention that the competitive fans I’m referencing contantly post mountains hateful garbage on halowaypoint, the halo subreddit, neogaf and everywhere else on the internet. These posts have prompted 343 to make changes to the matchmaking that I find unfavorable. All their arguments are pure pathos and logical fallacies. They say things like “343 is ruining halo because they added sprint and that is going to cause people to stop playing!!! Halo is dad!”

343 Industries are not bound to what the competitive community says. They do not look at “hateful” posts and go, “Well we better listen to them!”. That just doesn’t happen. Plenty of constructive posts have been made over the past year arguing for more traditional gameplay and so on. It is hard to take you seriously when you rage about one part of fans and say how arrogant they are because they think their opinions are facts only for you to do the exact same thing. It is purely hypocritical.

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from posting flamebait.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> Great joke mate; you had me for a second there.

Da kore of haaaalo is da moonjumpy awena gamepway dat i like. Know ned foe chang!!

> Neither does it revolve around you or any other traditional Halo fan.

Blatantly ignore the portion of my post where I say “343I should do what is most successful for them”.

> You can’t even establish precedence of your viewpoint

Good, because I wasn’t even trying to.

> > > The problem with this is Halo needed to change its game play.
> >
> > Why, exactly? Because you dislike the traditional play? World doesn’t revolve around you.
>
> Neither does it revolve around you or any other traditional Halo fan. You can’t even establish precedence of your viewpoint over his in this regard because you can’t make it stand that the traditional audience is a more important one. There are inevitably more people who didn’t play Halo back in the day (and can thus appreciate it’s traditional format) than those that did. There is thus inevitably a smaller audience for traditional content than new. This is why even well established franchises (look to any book, film, or TV series for this) <mark>over time try to vary their approach, style, or even content.</mark> It’s to find still more fans and still more potential accepting that what they did is still short of the mark of what they can do with a different tac.

But 343i more or less went nuts with the amount of changes.
They crippled great gametypes and limited the customization of said gametypes drastically.
Some they even removed entirely.

“Don’t try to fix it if it ain’t broke”

> @DecepticonCobra"Honestly, this thread isn’t going to help anything and is just blaming a part of the fanbase without explaining why they are to blame for anything."
>
>
> I might have forgot to mention that the competitive fans I’m referencing contantly post mountains hateful garbage on halowaypoint, the halo subreddit, neogaf and everywhere else on the internet. These posts have prompted 343 to make changes to the matchmaking that I find unfavorable. All their arguments are pure pathos and logical fallacies. They say things like “343 is ruining halo because they added sprint and that is going to cause people to stop playing!!! Halo is dad!”

You say “the competitive fans”, but it’s not just them. MANY fans don’t like Halo 4.

There is a LOT to hate about Halo 4, so it’s justifiable. People bought Halo 4 for a Halo game, which many fans think it’s not, as seen by the very low population.

The people who love Halo 4 and it’s current direction are the minority of Halo fans.

Oh, and Halo 4 is Dad, and so will Halo 5 if 343 does not change their minds on where Halo should be.

>

No need to be denigrating, I was just poking fun at how subjective your post was.
That’s just childish of you.

> > The “outdated gameplay” was a major reason why people bought Halo to begin with.
>
> It was new during the Hce and H2 era, but it’s old now.