343 is too scared of upsetting esports players to prioritize the fun factor

The Winter Update is pretty nice. The XP/challenge overhaul is a breath of fresh air, and I appreciate the battle pass.

With that being said, Argyle and Detachment are two frustrating additions to the matchmaking pool. I’m really trying to enjoy these maps, but it’s clear that their designs are laser-focused on catering towards HCS meta… like pretty much every 4v4 map besides Launch Site and Behemoth.

It’s almost like 343 is worried that they’ll upset the esports crowd if they add maps that can’t be used in tournaments. If HCS players hate a map, it’s probably going to be considered a good map to a lot of us. Not everyone enjoys the competitive scene, and I don’t understand why the devs can’t see that.

Before anyone calls me joyless, I’m not trying to gatekeep the idea of fun here. More power to those of you who enjoy the competitive side of Halo and like the new maps. They’re just not my thing, and I really hope 343 adds more that focus on the casual experience. In my opinion, the sweaty stuff sucks. I like 4v4 games, but BTB is my home for now.


Ive played Argyle a few times and detest the map. I think its a really bad esports map. it also feels terrible as if it was whipped up in forge within a day.

However, I don’t think they care what the players think - its all about satisfying Microsoft and the investors and esports can pack out arenas.

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I agree with the Argyle part, being a 3 lane map with no interesting features. but I think Detachment is very fun to play, with the power item island and teleporter. It creates some really interesting gameplay. The snipers at each base are a nice touch as well.


I have yet to play on Detachment, but I did get to play a game on Argyle. I found out very quickly that the middle lane is far too open and is easily spawn camped from the other side of the map by anyone who has a ranged weapon of any kind. I got to play fiesta on that map and realized real fast how absolutely terrible the spawns were. I got sniped from across the map three times in a row because I spawned in the same area directly in enemy line of sight by the same guy. I had a few other instances where I spawned and died almost immediately because I spawned right next to the enemy team. I had one where I was moving from the back section of the map towards the middle left stairway area and the entire enemy’s team spawned right in front of me. I watched each of them spawn in and started to have a fight with one of them and immediately got murdered by the entire team turning to look at me and destroy me with power weapons.

Sure fiesta is not a great place to get a balanced experience, but I can still give some feedback. That map needs way more cover and the spawns need to be fixed. I know I died getting shot from across the map at least six times by different precision weapons.

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Sprint, slide, clamber, changed aim assist to aim lock. There’s nothing about infinite that’s competitive, especially when compared to HCE/H2. “Esports” is literally a scapegoat that 343 uses to shift blame for their poor decision making and inability to design maps. Also 3 lane maps are terrible in Halo and don’t make the game more competitive.


Maybe they could set sniper spawns on a separate timer than the other power weapons, with the power island ones being ready right away, and snipers coming later.


The entire HCS budget should be scrapped for S3, let them play in their own league with their own rules that they create. Let them cough up sponsorship and prize money. If it truely is entertaining then it will be viable. What we have now is nothing but a farce.

GA prize money until they stop cheating.

HCS is a failed endeavour, it’s stale and boring repeat of the pitiful H5 competitive scene. Imagine if even a fraction of the money had been allocated to forge content creation.

Instead we have ‘professional’ players on Twitter engaging with fans saying ‘know your ******** place minion’ and in-game, tier1 org HCS players are doing the ‘my dad works at Nintendo’ schtick to mouse and keyboard players saying “””I can get you banned, go play csgo”””. The indifference is palpable.

“Gentlemen’s agreements” are collusion, adhering to rules outside the scope of bound gameplay rules. Collusion is cheating. Cheating is not supposed to be tolerated. If HCS is eradicated casual and real competitive halo fans won’t have a problem.

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EVERY HCS/Pro player HATES Argyle and Detachment. You do not know what you’re talking about.

Like… Legitimately, these maps SUCK! The sightlanes are huge, there’s two snipers on both?? Why? What’s with half the weapon choices? Detachment is 100% a dogwater map and… Argyle is NEAT but genuinely not fun to do anything but Team Slayer on.

Launch Site is also just, a dreadful map and if you recall, Behemoth was outright removed from ranked. Because Behemoth blows.


HCE has harder aim assist than Halo Infinite.
Also 343 didn’t blame “esports” for their decisions, that’d be the fans who don’t even listen or watch what the pros say anyway. It’s a scapegoat for fans to find someone, anyone to blame.

Like OP, who blames esports despite Halo Pros hating this map from day 1.


I really like Argyle but I also play a lot of SWAT and Fiesta so I don’t really have to deal with weapon spawns, which is what I’ve mainly seen pros complain about.

Detachment is growing on me but I HATED it the first week. I also hated the game that week because it was running so poorly. Much, much better this week.

I will say, if you have a repulsor and you’re near the back of Argyle where the lifts are you can send people over the edge pretty easily as they round the stairs - I think I did it four times in one match. It’s kind of fun.

Okay okay hear me out.

Heeeaaarrr me out, this… This is the hard part.

Argyle and Detachment, were not designed, for the Competitive crowd.


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This is super spot on. Like the map Behemoth is an amazing map but with BR starts and how spawns work it doesn’t work competitively or more so HCS style.

I’m happy and proud of what the community has created thus far.

Halo as a whole now has just become too competitive. Even MCC social is just exhausting to play. I’m a pretty good player, and even I get so sick of it. It’s not 2007 anymore. I just want to chill and play.

They’re far too focused on such a small part of the community.


They’re literally not. Comp players like… Maybe 3 or so of the maps in the game.

Have you heard the pro players lately?
THey aren’t exactly thrilled with 343

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Any fellow fans who understand things such as Halo needing to be fun first and competitive second; is alright in my book.


The problem is that all the maps are build around BR while in reality you’re running with AR 90% of the time, which is inaccurate at anything further than 5-7m… And whoever picks up BR gets unfair advantage and dominates.

The entire meta of the game is heavily competitive. Not just the maps. Although, there are definitely more than three competitive map types.

They’ve admitted themselves that they view halo’s multiplayer as inherently competitive focused.

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We are clearly playing different games…

I’d on the other hand argue that’s how it should be.
What i343’s problem currently entails, is that they’re incapable of making the competitive experience fun in a casual environment.

They’ve been banking on the competitive scene to somewhat hold the game up as it lacks content to support the wider player base. Because a competitive game will in the long run outlast more casual oriented ones.

Because that’s how multiplayer works, and how Halo’s XBL adventure began.
Social and Ranked had the exact same rules, it was merely a difference of having rank or not to play for.
In my experience, the expected difference between casual and competitive grew exponentially with the introduction of Forge, and Action Sack.
We got these whack game modes in contrast to the more serious modes in the other playlists, and that somehow morphed into expectations that Social / Casual modes are to be whacky / ridiculous / outlandish, while Competitive is the “serious mood” stuff.

If you don’t like a map, you simply do not like it.
All these complaints of “laned” maps coupled with “competitive’s fault” sorely miss a critical issue, and that is “contemporary design”.
Map designers have perhaps gotten too accustomed to designing maps in a specific way and have a hard time trying to break out of that mould. Alternatively it’s the easiest most cost efficient way of designing a playable map, and they pump them out because of that.

I’m not familiar with the competitive scene in Halo’s history but I’m sure there are maps in the past which were liked by Casual and Competitive scene alike, for instance Zanzibar, Midship, Ascension and Lockout to name a few.

So in my opinion, i343 is right in going for the competitive aspect of Halo, and keeping it as balanced as they can.
That’s not a problem, it’s a possible cookie-cutter approach to design which hampers creativity and results in samey, mediocre maps.
I’m all for more interesting maps which have a competitive value, like High ground, Zanzibar, Wizard and so forth.