343 is letting the toxic nostalgists run them.

Games Halo Infinite
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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

That’s the entire vibe Halo Infinite has given me from the beginning. The attitude of the modern Halo community is of this extremely toxic nostalgia that baselessly criticizes literally everything about Halo 4 and 5 and refuses to see anything good in them. All of 343’s decisions? “Terrible!” Anything from the Bungie era? “Superior!” 343’s totally-not-financially-based decision process? “Kill off all original artistic direction and just clone Bungie.”

And I guarantee this will extend to more than just aesthetics.

I just can’t stand seeing the absolutely awful opinions from this community gaining traction and turning into a rabid hivemind of “past good, new bad!” You watch any YouTube video about analysing Halo and it’s just like, Christ you people probably still eat chicken nuggets every day.

Worst of all, 343 seems so defeated, like they’re being gaslit by an abusive boyfriend and going “yeah, everything we did sucks, sorry”. No it doesn’t! Chief’s 4/5 armor was sick! The new weapon designs were awesome! The Prometheans were the perfect third faction to replace the Flood! The whole “this is the post-war future” aesthetic was the whole thing that drew me to your Halos and now you’re killing it because people have no taste and just want to eat some chicken nuggets with no vegetables like the good old days.

Halo was already old and stale by the time Reach came out, and some people argue 3. You have to look at the context of Halo in 2012 and 2015 and how it desperately needed to evolve, especially after Reach laid the groundwork for that evolution (which is funny, because everyone today is treating Reach like the epitome of “old Halo” when it was originally lampooned for being too new and “like CoD”, which sounds familiar…)

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> 2533274801472802;1:
> Halo was already old and stale by the time Reach came out, and some people argue 3.

Lmao.

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> 2533274949731121;2:
> > 2533274801472802;1:
> > Halo was already old and stale by the time Reach came out, and some people argue 3.
>
> Lmao.

It was 9 years of the same looking game, and Reach came out and gave it a huge visual overhaul.

4

Meh, I don’t see how is this a bad thing? I mean right now we only have art style to go off of, and if a lot of people want the old stuff back then returning to it would be a good thing. I was “okay” with Halo 4. I really was - but only just “okay”. I didn’t like most of the new additions and only stuck to Big Team, but I didn’t “hate” it.

When Halo 5 rolled around and dismissed most of what Halo 4 added, I didn’t shed many tears. Sure, Promethean Vision was cool as hell, but it was a balancing nightmare and while it could have stuck around as equipment, they opted to remove equipment too. Halo 5’s ended up being my favorite multiplayer experience though, with Halo 2 Anniversary being a close second and Reach just behind it.

We don’t know yet exactly how Infinite’s going to end up being like playstyle-wise. We can guess that it’ll be turning back on some things, but how much and to what extent? Will they keep trying to find a middle ground like Halo 5 attempted? Will it be like Reach or Halo 2 Anniversary? Will they remove sprint but keep thrusters and stabilization like in the Mythic playlist? Will it go all the way back to Halo 2 days and just give it a fresh coat of paint but tossing out everything 3, Reach, and onwards added? We don’t know yet.

I don’t feel they’re going to entirely turn back the clock that far and have it be entirely like the old games “just with better graphics”, but I don’t think we’ll be seeing the total dismissal of everything the modern games (Particularly 5) added either. To me it sounds like they’re still trying to find some middle ground, but in what form that will take in Infinite… Well, we’ll have to wait for more information on that front. I’m looking forward to it regardless though!

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> 2533274801472802;3:
> > 2533274949731121;2:
> > > 2533274801472802;1:
> > > Halo was already old and stale by the time Reach came out, and some people argue 3.
> >
> > Lmao.
>
> It was 9 years of the same looking game, and Reach came out and gave it a huge visual overhaul.

Thats subjective.

Halo CE to Halo 2 was an incredible jump in visuals and in play. Halo 3 improved upon customization for the players and still kept the graphics looking crisp. The fact that people compare them to games nowadays is a huge compliment because you need to realize that just about all of said games changed gaming for their time period in one way or another. Halo CE shaped the future of gaming especially for the FPS genre. Halo 2 practically shaped online gaming And Halo 3 took gaming to a whole new realm of competitive gaming. (Competitive gaming was around at those times but Halo 3 really ramped it up)

The story telling from CE to Halo 3 for me was way more solid than what we got from Reach, onward. I’ve read so much lore that its burned into my brain and the early games, while still could have done more, still did a fantastic job on capturing your attention and making you want to play and learn more about the game. I, personally, find that hard to say with Halo 4 and 5. Reach was solid, I’ll give it that. It did bring a huge visual overall, but more so in the world of customization. Aside from flying in space, it didn’t really break out of the bounds of what we can expect. Bungie did a good job with that game in the sense of handing off the reins of Halo to Microsoft.

Halo has looked beautiful to me from day 1, and while I didn’t like the armour design in 4 and 5, the visuals were still awesome.

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It’s all about personal opinion on how each individual liked and disliked things about Halo. I’m perfectly fine with the old Halo, but personally, I don’t understand the hate for Halo 4. Halo 5: Guardians was a pretty big disappointment, I won’t lie, there was much about it I did not care for. However there were still things to love about Halo 5 that I will not overlook or simply ignore because the game as a whole just wasn’t what it was made out to be.

I will agree that old Halo was amazing and I loved it! But, I also agree with you, OP, because the last thing I want to be playing is a stale game. I don’t want a Halo game that feels exactly like the game we got 10-20 years ago that had functionally the same mechanics movement and gear wise. I want a game that feels like it marches on as time passes. I want a game that looks and feels good but also is good to play. I want something with replayability so I’m not playing through it once or twice and then shelving it because it lost its charm too quickly or just doesn’t feel very fun to play.

I think that we’re all tugging 343i around like ragdolls.

We should of course voice complaints that we have as they arise, but we shouldn’t be demanding and controlling them. They’re a game development company, let them do their job. I understand that Halo is a beloved series, I love it just as much as the old timers who’ve been there since 3rd grade or 3 years old playing it day one. But it’s because I love it so much that I want to see it evolve and grow. 343i could do amazing things with Halo if they didn’t feel like they were walking on eggshells to avoid triggering landmines.

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> 2533274801472802;1:
> That’s the entire vibe Halo Infinite has given me from the beginning. The attitude of the modern Halo community is of this extremely toxic nostalgia that baselessly criticizes literally everything about Halo 4 and 5 and refuses to see anything good in them. All of 343’s decisions? “Terrible!” Anything from the Bungie era? “Superior!” 343’s totally-not-financially-based decision process? “Kill off all original artistic direction and just clone Bungie.”
>
> I just can’t stand seeing the absolutely awful opinions from this community gaining traction and turning into a rabid hivemind of “past good, new bad!” You watch any YouTube video about analysing Halo and it’s just like, Christ you people probably still eat chicken nuggets every day.

Okay. I have to start off with your use of the term “baselessly”. If you truly think criticism of 343i’s games are baseless then you must have truly selective hearing. Many people who criticise 343i’s Halo titles provide more than enough information explaining what they dislike about the undesired aspects of those games. If you’re watching these YouTube videos you refer to and actually listening to what they’re about, it’s clear that they’re not just made by people who “still eat chicken nuggets every day”. They provide more than enough points to back up their opinions. If you have different tastes or different opinions, that’s completely fine. Offer a counter argument if you like, but you’re only lying to yourself if you think it’s all about nostalgia. If I were you, I’d go back and watch such YouTube videos. There are plenty out there (Favyn, LateNightGaming, The Act Man, etc. etc.) who all provide very valid points as to why they don’t like certain aspects of Halo 4 and 5.

> 2533274801472802;1:
> Worst of all, 343 seems so defeated, like they’re being gaslit by an abusive boyfriend and going “yeah, everything we did sucks, sorry”. No it doesn’t! Chief’s 4/5 armor was sick! The new weapon designs were awesome! The Prometheans were the perfect third faction to replace the Flood! The whole “this is the post-war future” aesthetic was the whole thing that drew me to your Halos and now you’re killing it because people have no taste and just want to eat some chicken nuggets with no vegetables like the good old days.

I don’t think 343i have specifically stated that they made a mistake changing the Chief’s armour or introducing the Prometheans. They’ve admitted they made mistakes while developing Halos 4 and 5, but not specifically about the 4/5 MJOLNIR or the introduction of their third faction. Regarding the Chief’s armour, I believe people were resistant to it for two reasons: 1. It was part of an overall artstyle change which included many unfaithful alterations to Halo’s iconic designs. 2. The canonical explanation for the change was incredibly stupid. - No in-game explanation, and an incredibly lazy out-of-came canonical excuse consisting of ‘nanobots’. Overall though, I think what people most dislike about the 4/5 armour is that it is associated with Halos 4 and 5 and the mistakes that were made in those games. (I’m just going to mention now that I quite like both games in spite of their shortfalls. I’m still a fan of Halo 4 and 5, but not as much as their predecessors, and I really don’t have many positive points to say about Halo 5’s Campaign). Regarding the Prometheans, I think if you go back to their most basic concept, they work. However, the visuals and gameplay elements that were chosen for the Prometheans did not.

> 2533274801472802;1:
> Halo was already old and stale by the time Reach came out, and some people argue 3. You have to look at the context of Halo in 2012 and 2015 and how it desperately needed to evolve, especially after Reach laid the groundwork for that evolution (which is funny, because everyone today is treating Reach like the epitome of “old Halo” when it was originally lampooned for being too new and “like CoD”, which sounds familiar…)

I don’t disagree that Halo should evolve. Halo needs to innovate, but there is a difference between an evolution and a complete change of character. Halo lost its identity with Halos 4 and 5 (and I agree, this actually began with Halo Reach). To me, if you believe Halo was already stale by Halo 3, then you never were truly a Halo fan to begin with. Maybe you played Halo CE and Halo 2 because they were released at a time when there was less the FPS market had to offer. Many argue Halo was in its prime during the days of Halo 3. If Halo 4 and 5 took steps to diverge from what Halo 3 was, then they were also separating themselves from what Halo was.

343i realised something after Halo 5. They didn’t create Halo. It wasn’t theirs to change. Bungie did some fantastic work back in the day, but it’s the fans that made Halo what it was. Bungie, Ensemble, Certain Affinity, Saber Interactive, Creative Assembly and Vanguard Games have all worked on Halo, but only 343i strayed from it. Halo belongs to the fans, and it was their role to create a Halo game. The decisions made to drastically change gameplay and visuals to mimic traits from other popular modern shooters were not in Halo’s best interest. They understand that now because they listened to the fans with open minds. You don’t have to agree with what everyone says, but keep an open mind and you’ll learn a hell of a lot more. All 343i want to do is create an amazing Halo game, and it takes a great dealt of learning to do so.

8

It has always really frustrated me when people will complain about how long established franchises with millions of fans need to suddenly and drastically change to stay relevant. It’s like if you are not interested anymore or find the game’s aesthetics/mechanics stale and want something new then seriously, go play something new.

This extends to the game developers as well. If you want to do something original or “make something your own” then taking over a decade old, thoroughly established franchise probably wasn’t the way to go. Go make a new franchise, don’t force something that so many people love to change just because you’re bored with it.

And before the OP claims that I don’t want change of any kind and want Halo to stay the absolute same forever, no that is not what I want. Bungie always made incremental changes to Halos gameplay, or even more drastic changes with Halo Reach. However the massive, sweeping changes we saw in 4/5 that make the game almost unrecognizable to longtime players is just irritating, and saying so doesn’t make you toxic. Making long, ranting posts where you deride and insult people who don’t share your opinion… that makes you toxic.