343 is changing the game to make it less skillful

Currently many people on the forums are stating that 343 are making Halo 4 to be less biased towards skilled players and instead giving the advantage to the ‘noobs’. Despite many of the forum trying to argue the view that we have not seen how the game mechanics work so we cannot draw the conclusion that 343 is making the game less skill orientated. However the facts are conclusive; Halo 4 is less biased towards skill.

But is this such a bad thing? For the skilled individual players yes, but not for the future Halo community. The Halo community has been in decline since Halo 3 and one of the reasons for this is due to Halo being difficult to become skilful at when compared to other FPS. By making the MM easier 343 are hoping that more players will join the fight and that the community will grow.

But it is important that the game does not go too far in this direction. If the game does become too much like games such as CoD then not only will Halo loose its fanbase but it will also be crushed under CoDs boot. No game has EVER beaten CoD by following/copying its ideas/style and until CoD dies NOBODY will be able to do so. Halo 4 must retain some skill (and the Halo feel) or at the very least have classic playlists

Have a little faith guys! 343 has not forgotten its fanbase; I’m sure that the Halo 4 MM will turn out to be pretty good (or crash and burn). All we can do now is wait till November the 6th, I’ve already started counting the days to go!

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

What do you expect they have not listened to any of us but casuals? And what really pisses me off is the little scrubs on here that joined Halo when they found out about reach wanting less skilled game play And think there halo core players with there K/D of 0.64

IT’s Sad. But MARK MY WORDS HALO 4 WILL FAIL

I 100% agree with you.

In all honesty I thought they made Reach more accessible for those who weren’t as skilled.

To be honest I didn’t see what was wrong with how Halo 3 did it. Sure the ranking system had flaws but they had the ranked playlists and the social playlists. So if you wanted to be competitive and rank up then you had the ranked lists for that. If you just wanted to have fun without the competitive feel to it you had social.

Halo Reach also had arena but I didn’t like it that much. The game types were limited in it.

I understand why they’re trying to make the game more accessible to those who aren’t as skilled. Some people just want to have fun and not be competitive. That’s one of the reason CoD sells so much. CoD is a game that people can easily just jump into. That’s why a lot of people play it and buy it.

Some people don’t like to be told that they’re bad. However, they really do need to retain some aspect of ranks/skill for those players who like that aspect of Halo. Having classic playlists would also be nice.

I’ve been skeptical about various things i’ve heard about Halo 4 but I have also heard some good things. I’m really excited for the game and I won’t fully judge it until Nov 6th when I put that disk in my 360 and start playing.=P

It would be best if 343 just started releasing videos of the game in action and the new enemy. Even the most hardened Halo core player is going to want to take a crack at these guys if they are bad -Yoink-. COD or not.

> IT’s Sad. But MARK MY WORDS HALO 4 WILL FAIL

You can’t say Halo 4 will fail until we see gameplay. If the changes do have the effect as what I think they will do, I think Halo will actually grow. There are far more casual gamers the there are hardcore gamers so more people will buy the game. But the quality of the game might decrease-so it that sense it could fail.

What are you nuts? The games “skill gap” has been in decline with each sequential title. Only after zero bloom, no sprint did Reach supersede Halo 3 in skill, but it’s still lacking in maps and other things.

It’s not relevant though, a lot of my concerns have been eased from the latest 343 Sparkast and I’m happy to say I’m back to being cautiously optimistic about this game.

> Currently many people on the forums are stating that 343 are making Halo 4 to be less biased towards skilled players and instead giving the advantage to the ‘noobs’. Despite many of the forum trying to argue the view that we have not seen how the game mechanics work so we cannot draw the conclusion that 343 is making the game less skill orientated. However the facts are conclusive; Halo 4 is less biased towards skill.
>
> But is this such a bad thing? For the skilled individual players yes, but not for the future Halo community. The Halo community has been in decline since Halo 3 and one of the reasons for this is due to Halo being difficult to become skilful at when compared to other FPS. By making the MM easier 343 are hoping that more players will join the fight and that the community will grow.
>
> But it is important that the game does not go too far in this direction. If the game does become too much like games such as CoD then not only will Halo loose its fanbase but it will also be crushed under CoDs boot. No game has EVER beaten CoD by following/copying its ideas/style and until CoD dies NOBODY will be able to do so. Halo 4 must retain some skill (and the Halo feel) or at the very least have classic playlists
>
> Have a little faith guys! 343 has not forgotten its fanbase; I’m sure that the Halo 4 MM will turn out to be pretty good (or crash and burn). All we can do now is wait till November the 6th, I’ve already started counting the days to go!

The reason why Halo has been on such a decline is BECAUSE they tried making Reach so easy with armor abilities and DMR Bloom. So yes this is horrible for the future of Halo. Halo was popular because it was a very difficult and skill based shooter. Watching professional players play, or watching montages was amazing because good plays were actually hard to make, and not everyone can do that. But when someone does make an awesome play they feel super awesome because of how difficult it was. People don’t want an easy game, they want a game thats challenging. And Armor lock, sprint, bloom, ect doesn’t provide that.

Hopefully Halo 4 and 343 realizes this.

> What are you nuts? The games “skill gap” has been in decline with each sequential title. Only after zero bloom, no sprint did Reach supersede Halo 3 in skill, but it’s still lacking in maps and other things.
>
> It’s not relevant though, a lot of my concerns have been eased from the latest 343 Sparkast and I’m happy to say I’m back to being cautiously optimistic about this game.

Yes but the Halo 3 MM was the only high quality MM available and its reputation and brand name was massive. And gaming used to be mainly hardcore. Since Halo 3 there are far more polished MM available which can deliver a more casual experience. Casual games not hardcore games is where the money lies.

> The reason why Halo has been on such a decline is BECAUSE they tried making Reach so easy with armor abilities and DMR Bloom. So yes this is horrible for the future of Halo. Halo was popular because it was a very difficult and skill based shooter. Watching professional players play, or watching montages was amazing because good plays were actually hard to make, and not everyone can do that. But when someone does make an awesome play they feel super awesome because of how difficult it was. People don’t want an easy game, they want a game thats challenging. And Armor lock, sprint, bloom, ect doesn’t provide that.
>
>
> Hopefully Halo 4 and 343 realizes this.

to a certain extent true but the market currently wants casual games not hardcore ones. You do make a fair point though, this is why I stated that 343 must have classic and competitive playlists which take skill. Halo must keep this aurora of exclusiveness while still appealing to a growing casual gamer market.

Of course they are and they are proud of it too. But Halo would never survive in today’s industry if it was as skill dependent as CE. Which is a shame, but that’s just the way it is.

> > The reason why Halo has been on such a decline is BECAUSE they tried making Reach so easy with armor abilities and DMR Bloom. So yes this is horrible for the future of Halo. Halo was popular because it was a very difficult and skill based shooter. Watching professional players play, or watching montages was amazing because good plays were actually hard to make, and not everyone can do that. But when someone does make an awesome play they feel super awesome because of how difficult it was. People don’t want an easy game, they want a game thats challenging. And Armor lock, sprint, bloom, ect doesn’t provide that.
> >
> >
> > Hopefully Halo 4 and 343 realizes this.
>
> to a certain extent true but the market currently wants casual games not hardcore ones. You do make a fair point though, this is why I stated that 343 must have classic and competitive playlists which take skill. Halo must keep this aurora of exclusiveness while still appealing to a growing casual gamer market.

You’re Implying that casual is the same thing as easy, which it isn’t. Halo 2 was an incredibly competitive game, but not everyone who plays it plays for competitive purpose, they played it because regardless of how competitive it was, it was fun. Easy and cheap gimmicks just take away from that fun.

Look at starcraft. Built from the ground up to be competitive, and is not only the biggest Esport title in the world, but is also one of the most heavily populated games in the world. The game is in absolutely no way noob friendly and is super hard to get into. However people STILL play it because it is fun. Even if you can never break out of bronze league, you can still have fun with the game. Thats what makes it successful.

A game can still be competitive and challenging, but be played just for fun. Casual Gaming does not mean easy gaming.

> Of course they are and they are proud of it too. But Halo would never survive in today’s industry if it was as skill dependent as CE. Which is a shame, but that’s just the way it is.

This is the sad truth of the matter.

For better or worse, making games more accessible to players is what keeps game relevant now days. If game is highly competitive but the barrier of entry is too high (console wise) it’s not going to retain a casual player base which (admit it or not) makes up a bulk of game sales.

Of course CE was insane when it came to skill, i am not so sure if it would sell on that alone but just because Halo was on the cover :confused:

That’s not to say that the older fans/MLG/Semi competitive players don’t have a say or a place in Halos future. We do but we are a small minority, a loud one yes but small in comparison to fans that lean more towards casual.

On the other hand, the hardcore fans are the ones who stay around after the trend kids get bored and keep the game going too :slight_smile:

> You’re Implying that casual is the same thing as easy, which it isn’t. Halo 2 was an incredibly competitive game, but not everyone who plays it plays for competitive purpose, they played it because regardless of how competitive it was, it was fun. Easy and cheap gimmicks just take away from that fun.
>
>
> Look at starcraft. Built from the ground up to be competitive, and is not only the biggest Esport title in the world, but is also one of the most heavily populated games in the world. The game is in absolutely no way noob friendly and is super hard to get into. However people STILL play it because it is fun. Even if you can never break out of bronze league, you can still have fun with the game. Thats what makes it successful.
>
>
> A game can still be competitive and challenging, but be played just for fun. Casual Gaming does not mean easy gaming.

  1. I said nothing about gimmicks
  2. Halo 2 was one of the only multiplayer experiences for x-box available at the time which was widely advertised. It also had massive hype behind it as well as a reputation from Halo 1
  3. An easier game provides a less frustrating experience. Halo 2 was very quick paced. Your shield bar decreased very quickly which gave newer and less skilled players more of a chance. While skilled plays still could exploit the game and become successful

Both of us are right in some areas, and wrong in others. To return Halo to how it was in Halo 3 or 2 would not work; the market has changed. Making some of these changed is necessary. As for cheap, flashy gimmicks, if they work I have no problem with them. If not then get rid of them and return to the core gameplay

Took you until now to figure this out?

> Took you until now to figure this out?

no, it just seemed the right time to post it. Everybody has seemed to have lost their heads.

Hmm you might have a point

> By making the MM easier 343 are hoping that more players will join the fight and that the community will grow.

thatstheproblem.jpg

I don’t understand why they can’t just have it setup like halo2/3

Social Playlist = fun,casual players, messing about

Ranked Playlist = Competitive players, classic settings

Would it really be that difficult

it’d make everybody happy

> This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members.
>
>
> *Original post. Click at your own discretion.
>
>
>
> What do you expect they have not listened to any of us but casuals? And what really pisses me off is the little scrubs on here that joined Halo when they found out about reach wanting less skilled game play And think there halo core players with there K/D of 0.64
>
>
>
> IT’s Sad. But MARK MY WORDS HALO 4 WILL FAIL
>

Lol you’re so dumb… To bad its the most anticpated game… Btw I have been playing halo from the start and my k/d is higher then what you said… Im offended by what you said… Halo 4 is going to be a great game and successful like halo 3… Wanna know why? because i believe in 343… There are many reasons why this game will be a hit… Many people need to get over the fact that old school isn’t there anymore and hasn’t since halo 1… Nobody has noticed that Halo has changed drasticilly over every game. If you liked something in the other games… thats great then go play it… But don’t trash talk a game that isn’t out yet and barley have seen gameplay for…
Ps sorry for my spelling

I don’t agree for a second that Halo 3 or Halo Reach take any less or more skill then Halo 1 or Halo 2. I’m sorry, I just don’t. I honestly find each game to take the same amount of effort, skill and tactics as eachother. In different ways of course. Yet not in a really big way.

I know most wont agree with me, I’m hoping at least some will compromise with this. That adding elements does not take away, nor add skill. There has been randomness in gaming, including Halo since gaming has begun. Randomness can be seen as a understanding and misleading pattern of events, numbers or design.

With this understanding of randomness it’s simple to understand we, ourselves, are random. There is no real structural pattern of each player. Even if each player plays the same way, there actions are not predictable, therefor RANDOM. The weapons we all get, since they are not always the same, and the environment is not the same, Again RANDOM.

So lets get that out of the way. Random exists. You can never take away that element. Ever. It will always exist. There’s random elements with each fight, each player, each weapon, each possible scenario. Thankfully Halo always has elements that are not random.

Things like Equipment and Armor Abilities are really no diffrent then not having them. They just give a new demention of the gameplay. They don’t take away, nor really add much either. Each thing has a counter, a better, a worse, and can be mastered.

Armor Lock for example (I hate) has some skill gap. Believe it or not, Some people don’t use A.L as good as others. Some people masterted the art of it. While some just think “Press it anytime lol” and end up failing.

Jet Pack, Sprint, etc all have the same thing. They don’t break the map anymore then they make you think to counter and use them. Not every Jet Pack user is breaking maps, and not every sprinter is running like a pro. There’s still a gap with this, which some don’t really see.

Take Hologram for example. There’s a lot of people (myself even) who just sent a Hologram out and just hope it tricks someone. Yet there are those who have learned how to completly trick and use it to there advantage. Which, IS SKILL

Not to say they really add much skill to the game. However they don’t close any skill gaps that MAY have existed in Halo before. It just takes harder to be good. Yet good players who master Equipment, Armor Abilities, Weapons, Etc (in Halo 3/Reach) will still always win, Or at least no more or less then Halo1 or 2.

Plus those who think Halo 1 or Halo 2 took so much more skill, Not really. Maybe Halo:1 because it was very simple and to the point. Yet Halo 2 was anything but a skill-gapped game. 1-50 does not mean there was better and worse any more or less then any other game (Ranks or not).

So. Stop whining. Elements don’t take away skill. They don’t close any gaps. They don’t ruin the game. Halo is still Halo. They don’t do much at all. They are elements. I can’t even say they add much skill either. Except to themselves. But that’s all good for me.

AND

I have no real hate for MLG. It’s there own little rules, games, and hey if people wanna change the game to there likings, fine. I’ll say I don’t really like BR/DMR fests all the time. However somethings about MLG work out. And I see that they try to balance the game.
However in my humble opinion I think MLG (the real cool ones, and the wannabe brats) have something wrong. They never try to balance the weapons out, instead they just kinda make the others have no point to be used. BR/DMR/Sniper/Shotgun and maybe Rockets or such are pretty much the only ones you need. [which could be said for the game inself, sadly).
Now I know MLG wants to balance things. Yet if people from MLG, or any of you “Skill=A great game” or such need to realize you need Skill and Balance. Having just one is not good.
Just balance If you just have balance. Yes all guns are useful, However it’s pretty much first shoot, first kill, not much skill. It’s pretty much Call of Duty. Some guns are better, Yet overall you never really need to think of "What weapons should I use"
Just Skill Is just boring. It’s kind of what we have now to a degree. Yet having 1-3 weapons only be good compared to 10-15 weapons is just bad for the game.
As you can see. Neither of them are better. They both have ups, and downs. So in reality a perfect game would have both Skill and Balance.
Now MLG has to do BR/DMR fests I understand. Yet I wonder why they never think to make other games that use other weapons. Like why not have a mode with no rifles/scoped weapons. Or just in general 343 should have a gametype like that in Reach
To Halo 4
I don’t think the BR/DMR and Carbine or such should ever be the only good guns. Maybe the most useful in mid range as it always is. However giving it some ways of making it hard to use. In no Halo game (except really Halo 1) the BR or such never take skill. It either is just too easy to use, Or too random and again no real skill.
In Halo:CE we had a good amount of Balance and Skill. A good player would usaully win, yet making a stupid mistake would be bad. Like this (assume everyone had ranks in HaloCE, EXAMPLE TIME)
Lets say a good rank 35 has a Pistol, an average level 20 with a shotgun meets him in a corner, They have a short fight. The level 35 is better, Yet not thinking "Maybe I should use my A.R, Plasma Rifle, or Shotgun…etc) means he wasn’t thinking. He didn’t take the balance and thought into the equation. He losses. Not because that shotgun is OP, or the other player got lucky…But because he didn’t think.
Halo 4 should be something like that. The player with skill is the one who can think of what weapon/tools/grenades to use in “X” scenario. Having one gun that can just beat anything just because you are “better” does not really mean skill.
And skill shouldn’t just be about Aim. Skill is
Aim
Thinking
Weapon Choosing (ironicly why Halo has 2 weapon limits, to make you think of what to use)
Weapon Knowledge (Vehicles to of course)
Team Work (team games only of course)
When you have all those. With good percentage you make a good game. All the guns are good. They take skill. A good player will win, Yet not because he can 3 shot someone with a Pistol or DMR, But becuase he knows at “Y” Range to use “X” Weapons, In which bad players or not as good players may not think about.
Anyone. What you think?

Aims gun at OP

Your move…creep