343, Innovate Elsewhere

Games Halo 5: Guardians
#1

I’ve had this idea for a while, that Halo could be so much more if the “innovation” was focused somewhere else beside the apparent choice of movement. Halo had a solid foundation to create good consistent gameplay. Instead of building on that with new technology, they decided to change what worked, creating what is now the famous sprint war. However, I am not here to talk about sprint. I am here to talk about other better options of what 343 could have used their innovation to create a better Halo.

What sparked this for me, was watching this video. Mortal Kombat X: Next

That is basically a quick overview of what Mortal Kombat has been doing to innovate their franchise. Instead of drastically changing the gameplay mechanics in the game, they focused on what they could add on top of their renowned gameplay. In the case of the video it was their Factions. An expansion to the prevalent online gameplay. This made me think, why can’t Halo do that too?

Yes I realize the new MK’s are far from the original MK’s. That’s not the point. I was just using it as an example of that it is possible to innovate outside of the core gameplay, regardless of if/how the gameplay has changed.

And so I want to bring up ideas for 343, ideas that would be more beneficial to the Halo franchise than trying to make it compete with other titles by imitating those other titles. What I have tried to come up with are basic ideas that could actually innovate Halo, without changing the gameplay so many of us love.

Innovation 1 - “Larger” Multiplayer
Create an expansive multiplayer. Have daily/weekly wars over planets, where each map is situated on a planet and you fight to own that planet/map. Have it red vs blue, spartan vs elite, whatever. But imagine the replayability when you have more than just a goal of winning a single match, but winning the war for that planet/map in the larger scheme. Think Invasion from Reach, but on a massive, longer-term scale. Also could throw in some 64 player spartan wars, how sick would that be.

Also integrate ranks/rankings into this. That teammates can suggest promotion for other players that were helpful teammates, not just stat whores. There would be a lot of cool and innovative ways that they could make ranks mean more than just a number and more than just used for matchmaking.

Innovation 2 - Better Forge

Halo Reach’s forge was the best forge. It provided terrain, space, and overall a very polished experience (like the rest of Reach, but that’s for another post). Yet, there were still improvements to be had. Halo 4 tried hard to improve on it, with magnets, lighting, duplicate object, but most of those were gimmicky and less typically made Forge less useful than Reach. 343 even screwed up the coordinate mapping for pieces, something that is integral for creating perfect Forge maps.

So for this section, there is a lot of places you could go with this. They could go more in the direction of Little Big Planet, with more dynamic and creative pieces. They could go in the more practical direction of better features such as copy, paste, merge, undo, etc. They could go more detailed oriented with extensive textures, custom molding/shaping (Autosculpt from NFS anyone?), and terrain modification. They could go to a PC platform, making it easier to precisely place pieces, as well as directly support modding or something.

Innovation 3 - More Community Involvement

There are a lot of creatives in the Halo community. From machinimas to artists to modders to montagers to forgers, you get the idea. Why not create a better platform for the community to be involved in the design process of Halo? Create a tool for forge maps to be reskinned into legit multiplayer maps. A platform for artists to create new armor for spartans, that they can share with 3D designers who can model those pieces, which then could be submitted to 343 to put into the game as free dlc. Crowdsource free dlc so to speak. Make a better platform for the creatives to meet and thrive.

Innovation 4?
That’s what I could come up with for basic ideas. But I believe those ideas have way more potential for franchise growth than mixing up the movement mechanics ever will. What ideas do you guys have? I wanna know what you guys think, is 343 really innovating enough? Where do you think they should focus with the game? If there is a good basic idea where 343 could innovate the game, I will definitely add it to this post.

I realize that 343 probably won’t see this, and even if they do see it, none of these will be implemented at least until H6 if at all. So you don’t have to bring that up, it is just fun to “create” our own halo.

#2

Is Steve Harvey franchise director for Mortal Kombat, or just part of a co-developer?

#3

You realize all we really know about Halo 5 at this point are the basic gameplay mechanics. The beta was named arena mp beta for a reason. That was the only aspect of the final game the beta was intended to showcase. The simplest, most traditional part of the game. Team slayer with few variants.

Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game. That’s not what I would call innovation.

We have no information indicating that better forge or massive team battles aren’t part of H5 already. Likewise we have no info to prove that they are in the game.

#4

> 2533274963840114;3:
> Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game.

…which is all Halo really needs and ever needed.

Sprint is not innovation. Neither is all the other nonsense that’s been copied from other games and shoehorned in for no real reason.

Why can’t people see this.

#5

> 2533274846700578;4:
> > 2533274963840114;3:
> > Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game.
>
>
>
> …which is all Halo really needs and ever needed.
>
> Sprint is not innovation. Neither is all the other nonsense that’s been copied from otther games and shoehorned in for no real reason.
>
> Why can’t people see this.

I suppose the inclusion of sprint could be seen as a natural evolution in terms of gaming. Pretty much every other game features it. And I, for one, can’t believe a seven-foot tall Spartan isn’t capable of picking up the pace when required. It was going to happen at some point.

Personally, I think it’s required. Competitive gameplay doesn’t just cover gunplay, it’s also how you move on the battlefield. I like it and think it needs to stay.

#6

Welllllll technically a balances sprint is NEW to halo. When ppl throw new and innovative around they always fail to mention if they mean new to FPS or new to the series. If they say they wanna do something new and do something that’s never been done IN the series, even if it’s featured in other game sits still new.

halo has been part of the FPS wheel for so long there’s no way in hell it could innovate the wheel now without changing mechanics. And with this community that’s not acceptable

#7

> 2533274797756411;5:
> > 2533274846700578;4:
> > > 2533274963840114;3:
> > > Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > …which is all Halo really needs and ever needed.
> >
> > Sprint is not innovation. Neither is all the other nonsense that’s been copied from otther games and shoehorned in for no real reason.
> >
> > Why can’t people see this.
>
>
> I suppose the inclusion of sprint could be seen as a natural evolution in terms of gaming. Pretty much every other game features it. And I, for one, can’t believe a seven-foot tall Spartan isn’t capable of picking up the pace when required. It was going to happen at some point.
>
> Personally, I think it’s required. Competitive gameplay doesn’t just cover gunplay, it’s also how you move on the battlefield. I like it and think it needs to stay.

What does realism have to do with making a balanced multiplayer game. That argument is tired and doesn’t hold water.

Also, just because other games have it doesn’t mean Halo all of a sudden needs it. It never did. Another very weak argument.

Also, you’ve always been able to move and strafe very quickly in Halo, but the difference and the plus side is you’ve always had access to the golden triangle at the same time (melee, grenades, shooting), which is how it SHOULD be. Especially in CE and H2, where movement was at its quickest and most responsive. Those were the two fastest-paced Halo games. That’s what makes Halo Halo. Why would anyone want to have the gun down in an arena first-person SHOOTER. Makes no sense to me,

Also, it takes more skill to move tactically and intelligently without the need of a brainless one-button get-out-of-jail-free card.

#8

> 2533274797756411;5:
> > 2533274846700578;4:
> > > 2533274963840114;3:
> > > Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > …which is all Halo really needs and ever needed.
> >
> > Sprint is not innovation. Neither is all the other nonsense that’s been copied from otther games and shoehorned in for no real reason.
> >
> > Why can’t people see this.
>
>
>
>
> I suppose the inclusion of sprint could be seen as a natural evolution in terms of gaming. Pretty much every other game features it. And I, for one, can’t believe a seven-foot tall Spartan isn’t capable of picking up the pace when required. It was going to happen at some point.
>
> Personally, I think it’s required. Competitive gameplay doesn’t just cover gunplay, it’s also how you move on the battlefield. I like it and think it needs to stay.

Just like Landonio said, just because other games have sprint doesn’t mean that Halo needs it. You want to pick up the pace of the game there are other ways of doing it,

Increasing the Field of View ( this give you the feeling of moving faster )

Increase the base player speed ( this makes you faster )

Decrease the player acceleration & deceleration time ( this gives you a more responsive strafe and gets rid of the walking on ice feel in Halo 3 )

That is all you need to do to Halo to speed up the gameplay, and add new or improved features to the game not mechanics that don’t fit into the arena style game that Halo is.

#9

Yeah. And removing sprint isn’t innovative either.

Idea 1) Would instantly get compared to battlefield.

idea 2) opinion. I feel H2A has the best forge.

idea 3) I like this idea.

#10

> 2535422112705145;9:
> Yeah. And removing sprint isn’t innovative either.
>
> Idea 1) Would instantly get compared to battlefield.
>
> idea 2) opinion. I feel H2A has the best forge.

1.) If you take the idea of Invasion from Reach and expand on it to be a new BTB experience, add AI players, etc then it will fit in Halo just perfectly. The original Star Wars Battefront games were literally Battlefield 1 and 2 with a Star Wars skin yet are seen as some of the best games of their time.

2,) H2A forge is a slightly improved Halo 4 forge. Adding in features like an actual terrain generator similar to what Project Spark has, weather, and a day/night cycle already make it better than H2A

#11

> 2533274846700578;7:
> > 2533274797756411;5:
> > > 2533274846700578;4:
> > > > 2533274963840114;3:
> > > > Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > …which is all Halo really needs and ever needed.
> > >
> > > Sprint is not innovation. Neither is all the other nonsense that’s been copied from otther games and shoehorned in for no real reason.
> > >
> > > Why can’t people see this.
> >
> >
> >
> > I suppose the inclusion of sprint could be seen as a natural evolution in terms of gaming. Pretty much every other game features it. And I, for one, can’t believe a seven-foot tall Spartan isn’t capable of picking up the pace when required. It was going to happen at some point.
> >
> > Personally, I think it’s required. Competitive gameplay doesn’t just cover gunplay, it’s also how you move on the battlefield. I like it and think it needs to stay.
>
>
> What does realism have to do with making a balanced multiplayer game. That argument is tired and doesn’t hold water.
>
> Also, just because other games have it doesn’t mean Halo all of a sudden needs it. It never did. Another very weak argument.
>
> Also, you’ve always been able to move and strafe very quickly in Halo, but the difference and the plus side is you’ve always had access to the golden triangle at the same time (melee, grenades, shooting), which is how it SHOULD be. Especially in CE and H2, where movement was at its quickest and most responsive. Those were the two fastest-paced Halo games. That’s what makes Halo Halo. Why would anyone want to have the gun down in an arena first-person SHOOTER. Makes no sense to me,
>
> Also, it takes more skill to move tactically and intelligently without the need of a brainless one-button get-out-of-jail-free card.

This. Cat and mouse gameplay isn’t fun. Sprint doesn’t belong in the halo formula. Also, why are we talking about realism in a game that has over shields, active camo, and alien weapons?

#12

> 2535422112705145;9:
> Yeah. And removing sprint isn’t innovative either.
>
> Idea 1) Would instantly get compared to battlefield.
>
> idea 2) opinion. I feel H2A has the best forge.
>
> idea 3) I like this idea.

I never said removing sprint was innovative, just removing it would return to halo the basic gameplay it needs to thrive. However, thats not the point of this thread…

I’m not sure how it would get compared to battlefield. I’m not familiar with BF4, but I don’t think it has the extensive multiplayer I am thinking of. I am thinking beyond just single games, where the battle for maps occurs over a day. Where commanders for red/blue team can direct players to attack/defend certain maps. Just something where there is more than just one game at a time, but your wins/losses have an effect on the multiplayer as a whole.

I don’t have MCC, so I can’t say, but from what I’ve seen it looks like H4’s forge with a couple of additions. So I can’t really comment on the quality of the rest of it. But that wasn’t the point of this innovation either. The point was forge could be made so much more if they spent more resources on developing it, rather than putting resources elsewhere.

#13

> 2533274963840114;3:
> You realize all we really know about Halo 5 at this point are the basic gameplay mechanics. The beta was named arena mp beta for a reason. That was the only aspect of the final game the beta was intended to showcase. The simplest, most traditional part of the game. Team slayer with few variants.
>
> Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game. That’s not what I would call innovation.
>
> We have no information indicating that better forge or massive team battles aren’t part of H5 already. Likewise we have no info to prove that they are in the game.

The things I listed aren’t new because I left the ideas basic. The reason I left the ideas basic was because that was the point of this thread. I don’t want to limit where certain “innovations” could go by listing specifics. So I put down basic ideas to get the idea going to the point where if the idea was pushed to its limits, it truly would be innovative for the fps scene and possibly for all of gaming.

So you are right, what I listed weren’t innovations, but innovations start somewhere and that is where I wanted to start.

As for Halo 5, I can almost guarantee you that there will not be a whole lot new in any other aspect of the game. It has been clear from the start that 343’s focus with Halo 5 is movement mechanics. Had their focus been elsewhere, they would have released teaser videos showing the “revolutionary forge” or “massive team battles” or some feature with an adjective in front of it.

You have to be pretty ignorant to think that 343 is going in the right direction with halo. Not saying they are going in the wrong direction, but at this point it seems they are going no where or at least not the right direction.

#14

> 2533274797756411;5:
> > 2533274846700578;4:
> > > 2533274963840114;3:
> > > Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > …which is all Halo really needs and ever needed.
> >
> > Sprint is not innovation. Neither is all the other nonsense that’s been copied from otther games and shoehorned in for no real reason.
> >
> > Why can’t people see this.
>
>
> I suppose the inclusion of sprint could be seen as a natural evolution in terms of gaming. Pretty much every other game features it. And I, for one, can’t believe a seven-foot tall Spartan isn’t capable of picking up the pace when required. It was going to happen at some point.
>
> Personally, I think it’s required. Competitive gameplay doesn’t just cover gunplay, it’s also how you move on the battlefield. I like it and think it needs to stay.

bf has sprint and cod has sprint. halo does not need it and i dont want it theres a reason why halo 2 is cherished as the golden halo game for mp. halo 1 sp and mp. halo 3 good all around

#15

Anyone who’s using new Mortal Kombat as example how to modernize franchise while sticking to it’s roots clearly never played old Mortal Kombat games. If Halo received kind of threatment that MK got, “true” Halo fans would not recognize it. Seriously people, if sprint is such a big deal for you, you would hate amount of gameplay tweaks other franchises are receiving on regular basis.

#16

The first idea you mentioned, about battling for control of a planet, reminds me a lot of what Steel Battalion: Line of Contact did on the original Xbox. In that game, you joined a faction, and battled for control over a fictional island. the outcome of matches pushed the factions boundaries around on this island. It eventually reset every 90(i think) days in order to re-start the unlocking of new mechs and weapons(since there were 3 generations of mech you could drive and it created a pseudo-campaign where you progressed through them). It was awesome though and I would be thrilled if Halo introduced something like that.

As far as large-scale combat, it is possible to go too big. Look at M.A.G. for the PS3. It was a great idea, in theory. And when you could play with and against those who played the game correctly, it was awesome. However, the majority of the time, you would play people who had no idea what they were doing. The game was structured to push you to work as a team by designating a squad leader who would set your waypoints. It had such potential, but no real incentive to stick to your squad’s objective. This lead to so many instances of teams scattering right at the start with everyone running off to try and do their own thing. Delving into large-scale combat is a recipe for disaster when you can’t balance a necessary level of control and a gamer’s instilled desire for freedom.

#17

> 2533274820093296;15:
> Anyone who’s using new Mortal Kombat as example how to modernize franchise while sticking to it’s roots clearly never played old Mortal Kombat games. If Halo received kind of threatment that MK got, “true” Halo fans would not recognize it. Seriously people, if sprint is such a big deal for you, you would hate amount of gameplay tweaks other franchises are receiving on regular basis.

Actually its the other way around. I’ve never played the new ones, but own the OG 3. And I was just using it as an example of that it is possible to innovate outside of the core gameplay, regardless of if/how the gameplay has changed.

And again, this thread is not about sprint, its about what better innovations could 343 do.

#18

> 2811398874529013;16:
> The first idea you mentioned, about battling for control of a planet, reminds me a lot of what Steel Battalion: Line of Contact did on the original Xbox. In that game, you joined a faction, and battled for control over a fictional island. the outcome of matches pushed the factions boundaries around on this island. It eventually reset every 90(i think) days in order to re-start the unlocking of new mechs and weapons(since there were 3 generations of mech you could drive and it created a pseudo-campaign where you progressed through them). It was awesome though and I would be thrilled if Halo introduced something like that.
>
> As far as large-scale combat, it is possible to go too big. Look at M.A.G. for the PS3. It was a great idea, in theory. And when you could play with and against those who played the game correctly, it was awesome. However, the majority of the time, you would play people who had no idea what they were doing. The game was structured to push you to work as a team by designating a squad leader who would set your waypoints. It had such potential, but no real incentive to stick to your squad’s objective. This lead to so many instances of teams scattering right at the start with everyone running off to try and do their own thing. Delving into large-scale combat is a recipe for disaster when you can’t balance a necessary level of control and a gamer’s instilled desire for freedom.

Exactly!!! I didn’t know if there was a game that had the idea already (I assumed there would be), but its awesome that you knew one. It sounds a lot like what I have in mind, and they could totally have armour unlocks for defending maps, etc.

I don’t think Halo could ever go that big (256 players is a bit too much haha). But something like 32 players, probably max 50, could work and be pretty awesome provided the proper maps for it. But also still have the small 4v4 maps too, depending what planet you are on and what you are defending.

#19

> 2533274846700578;4:
> > 2533274963840114;3:
> > Things you listed are nothing new. They are improvements to existing aspects of the game.
>
>
> …which is all Halo really needs and ever needed.
>
> Sprint is not innovation. Neither is all the other nonsense that’s been copied from other games and shoehorned in for no real reason.
>
> Why can’t people see this.

It’s allll comes down to new to the series VS new to the FPS genre. I get where you’re coming from but aside from the bigger battles all you suggested was upgraded versions of what we already have which is the obvious. If bungie was still making halo Id agree with more. But they arnt and whether it’s 343 or if it would have been another team halo’s direction would have change. Why can’t ppl see this? No one but halo 2 bungie could given us that game again. Bungie of this day would not. So how do you expect another team with other visions to do so

#20

> 2533274872721237;17:
> > 2533274820093296;15:
> > Anyone who’s using new Mortal Kombat as example how to modernize franchise while sticking to it’s roots clearly never played old Mortal Kombat games. If Halo received kind of threatment that MK got, “true” Halo fans would not recognize it. Seriously people, if sprint is such a big deal for you, you would hate amount of gameplay tweaks other franchises are receiving on regular basis.
>
>
> Actually its the other way around. I’ve never played the new ones, but own the OG 3. And I was just using it as an example of that it is possible to innovate outside of the core gameplay, regardless of if/how the gameplay has changed.
>
> And again, this thread is not about sprint, its about what better innovations could 343 do.

Understood, but new MK is example of game that changed it’s core gameplay to succeed. MK 9/10 is totally different game than MK 1/2/3/4. It’s still 1v1 fighting game with 2 dimensional gameplay (as opposed to MK games in 2000s, which were fully 3d) and favorite characters, but it plays totally different.

I don’t think 343i could innovate Halo games in big way without touching all these little gameplay tweeks that are making purists nuts. E.g. 64 players in BTB on huge map without sprint? This way moving on foot would be suicide, as infantry will become easy prey for snipers and vehicles (not to mention it would take forever to move from one corner of the map to another, while being vulnerable). Making base speed faster? Then we’ll have chaos with 64 players moving so fast around the map it would make difficult to shoot anything particular.