343 Industries Ultimate Challenge

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I was thinking, what is the ultimate challenge 343 needs to complete.
I think I got the answer: Rebuild the Halo community. And I think THEY ACHIEVED IT!
Yes, Halo 5 has its problems and it has its right choices and, in my opinion, this game brought back the old Halo player and the new Halo player who plays this new modern games.

First: The gameplay has the same feeling from the other Halo titles. Shooting is delicious than ever in this franchise, you can feel every weapon is different from the other and that is what Halo differs from other fps games in the market and that brings the Halo fan who is ‘playing since CE’ back, because the core gameplay Halo has is there.
343 added new mechanics, and very useful mechanics, like clamber, sprint, hit markers, ground pound and this is very welcome additions that, in my opinion seems like Halo is trying to be relevant again and not being ‘Call of Halo’ or the same Halo 3 again and again and again. This is what bring the new player to see Halo and care about it.

BUT, in my opinion, 343 Industries does not had the result they expected. The community is still divided and I think it is just ‘preciosity’ (I don’t know if this term makes sense in English) from the players who wants the “Halo glory days” back.
To me, the scenario is just simple: This “golden age” is gone. The more 343I put efforts to make Halo equal to Halo 2/3, Halo will not go back to this position. Because there are plenty of fps games on the market right now, you can hate them, but they are a success for now and this is because 343 should not lose the opportunity to make these players likes Halo, they are a different generation who not grown up playing the game or don’t had the opportunity to it.

Otherwise, 343 should maintain the fan base they got through the years when Halo was the ‘king of the fps games’ and there was no other game to beat it. Halo Reach and Halo 4 proved that if you go too much far from the classic Halo gameplay, this will not make the game more important. In Halo 5, they went back to the Halo roots, the classic gameplay is there and you win battles based on skill (except using Spartan charge), but definitely Halo 5 is Halo and not ‘Call of Halo’.
So, finally: What is the reason the Halo community still divided? In my opinion, Halo 5 is almost the perfect balance to unit old and new player and that is what makes “HALO GREAT AGAIN”.

Be advised: In my opinion, you can not distort Halo and make it ‘modern’ because it is a trend without ignoring the fan base, and you can not say Halo needs to heavily go back to Halo 3 style without ignoring the new player, assuming the Halo 3 gameplay not dated well (IMO).
Please, share what you think, agreeing with me or not, let’s make the debate civilized. And please, let’s leave the other issues about the game out of debate. This thread is just for thinking about the Halo mechanics and style and the formula to make ALL the community satisfied.

  • Sorry, English is not my native language.
2

> 2533275010793662;1:
> I was thinking, what is the ultimate challenge 343 needs to complete.
> I think I got the answer: Rebuild the Halo community. And I think THEY ACHIEVED IT!
> Yes, Halo 5 has its problems and it has its right choices and, in my opinion, this game brought back the old Halo player and the new Halo player who plays this new modern games.
>
> First: The gameplay has the same feeling from the other Halo titles. Shooting is delicious than ever in this franchise, you can feel every weapon is different from the other and that is what Halo differs from other fps games in the market and that brings the Halo fan who is ‘playing since CE’ back, because the core gameplay Halo has is there.
> 343 added new mechanics, and very useful mechanics, like clamber, sprint, hit markers, ground pound and this is very welcome additions that, in my opinion seems like Halo is trying to be relevant again and not being ‘Call of Halo’ or the same Halo 3 again and again and again. This is what bring the new player to see Halo and care about it.
>
> BUT, in my opinion, 343 Industries does not had the result they expected. The community is still divided and I think it is just ‘preciosity’ (I don’t know if this term makes sense in English) from the players who wants the “Halo glory days” back.
> To me, the scenario is just simple: This “golden age” is gone. The more 343I put efforts to make Halo equal to Halo 2/3, Halo will not go back to this position. Because there are plenty of fps games on the market right now, you can hate them, but they are a success for now and this is because 343 should not lose the opportunity to make these players likes Halo, they are a different generation who not grown up playing the game or don’t had the opportunity to it.
>
> Otherwise, 343 should maintain the fan base they got through the years when Halo was the ‘king of the fps games’ and there was no other game to beat it. Halo Reach and Halo 4 proved that if you go too much far from the classic Halo gameplay, this will not make the game more important. In Halo 5, they went back to the Halo roots, the classic gameplay is there and you win battles based on skill (except using Spartan charge), but definitely Halo 5 is Halo and not ‘Call of Halo’.
> So, finally: What is the reason the Halo community still divided? In my opinion, Halo 5 is almost the perfect balance to unit old and new player and that is what makes “HALO GREAT AGAIN”.
>
> Be advised: In my opinion, you can not distort Halo and make it ‘modern’ because it is a trend without ignoring the fan base, and you can not say Halo needs to heavily go back to Halo 3 style without ignoring the new player, assuming the Halo 3 gameplay not dated well (IMO).
> Please, share what you think, agreeing with me or not, let’s make the debate civilized. And please, let’s leave the other issues about the game out of debate. This thread is just for thinking about the Halo mechanics and style and the formula to make ALL the community satisfied.
> * Sorry, English is not my native language.

Interesting, I believe you have everything correct. However you might encounter the unsatisfied fans of the H Community. I agree with your views because they in other words accurate. That might be a harsh thing to say but it’s true. I’m happy to finally see positivity on the Fourms without constantly digging for it.

3

They’re rebuilding it which is good, but I don’t think it’s at 100%. Now it’s at like 70-80% but after mcc and 4 it was at 50-60%.

4

You made some good point here. I definitely agree with what you said.

5

> 2535455681930574;3:
> They’re rebuilding it which is good, but I don’t think it’s at 100%. Now it’s at like 70-80% but after mcc and 4 it was at 50-60%.

Yes, it is not 100%. I can mention two things that can make the community more united: Removing or nerfing Spartan charge and bringing back split-screen (that feeling to reunite your friends at your home and drive some warthogs in campaign).

6

They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.

7

> 2533274890584596;6:
> They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.

You only talked about halo 4. This is the halo 5 forum.

8

> 2533274890584596;6:
> They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.

Yes, we have already seen the “modernizations” don’t match with the Halo formula, but I still think if 343I go back to the same gameplay Halo 3 has, it will be a complete failure as well. Most of the fans will be happy with it? maybe yes, but it will close a lot of doors from who is playing Halo since Reach, or 4 or who is knowing Halo just now. They will not get used of the mechanics.
The scenario is irreversible at this point. They can not do drastic changes without hurt this or that group of players

9

> 2533275010793662;5:
> > 2535455681930574;3:
> > They’re rebuilding it which is good, but I don’t think it’s at 100%. Now it’s at like 70-80% but after mcc and 4 it was at 50-60%.
>
>
> Yes, it is not 100%. I can mention two things that can make the community more united: Removing or nerfing Spartan charge and bringing back split-screen (that feeling to reunite your friends at your home and drive some warthogs in campaign).

Yes. Split screen is a must but I’m torn on Spartan charge.

10

> 2535455681930574;7:
> > 2533274890584596;6:
> > They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.
>
>
> You only talked about halo 4. This is the halo 5 forum.

Uhh. What? That entire post is in reference to Halo 5.

11

> 2533275010793662;8:
> > 2533274890584596;6:
> > They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.
>
>
> Yes, we have already seen the “modernizations” don’t match with the Halo formula, but I still think if 343I go back to the same gameplay Halo 3 has, it will be a complete failure as well. Most of the fans will be happy with it? maybe yes, but it will close a lot of doors from who is playing Halo since Reach, or 4 or who is knowing Halo just now. They will not get used of the mechanics.
> The scenario is irreversible at this point. They can not do drastic changes without hurt this or that group of players

I would never suggest that going back to the exact gameplay of 3 is what they should do going forward. That game has plenty of flaws, but it also does plenty of things right that 343 has abandoned, Halo CE even more so. I would prefer to see them look at what the most successful games in the series did right, replicate THAT and then worry about innovation. Like what the Coalition is doing with Gears 4. With regards to the “modern halo” players being hurt by a return to form, I have seen pretty much no intelligent arguments in favor of modernization from people who legitimately understand would these changes do to the game as a whole. This makes it difficult for me to legitimately believe that they know what they would enjoy. When arguments in favor of sprint boil down to “They’re super soldiers. It’s realistic.”

To be honest, I think that Halo 5 could very easily be a great Halo game if they were simply willing to accept that certain mechanics are failures and remove them instead of spending incredible amounts of development time nerfing them. Something as simple as removing sprint and increasing the base movement speed (possibly widening the field of view as well) to compensation would make a huge difference. They wouldn’t even need to remove other elements of the movement mechanics in that case (slide and thrust would not be inherently incompatible with this change) and being able to accomplish higher level movement tech without sprint would be inherently more flexible. Increasing the default strafe acceleration could make your movement (aside from thrust) a bigger part of fights. Significant aerial control in favor of thrust could be very interesting, with fewer downsides (imagine that aerial strafe). Clamber could be replaced with more flexible mechanics that don’t interrupt combat (double jump or higher base jump height, for example). Reducing the complete dominance of automatics in favor of niche utility and useful roles outside of “kill things fast” in close quarters would reward skilled players more. The list continues.

I think it’s a misunderstanding of the larger argument to say that people critiquing modern Halo want it to play exactly like the classic games. I don’t think that’s largely the case. People like myself just want an evolution of the series that first, does not undermine core game-play tenants that the series was built on and second, is not based on a clear desire to appeal to the audiences of other games like Call of Duty.

12

> 2533274890584596;11:
> > 2533275010793662;8:
> > > 2533274890584596;6:
> > > They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.
> >
> >
> > Yes, we have already seen the “modernizations” don’t match with the Halo formula, but I still think if 343I go back to the same gameplay Halo 3 has, it will be a complete failure as well. Most of the fans will be happy with it? maybe yes, but it will close a lot of doors from who is playing Halo since Reach, or 4 or who is knowing Halo just now. They will not get used of the mechanics.
> > The scenario is irreversible at this point. They can not do drastic changes without hurt this or that group of players
>
>
> I would never suggest that going back to the exact gameplay of 3 is what they should do going forward. That game has plenty of flaws, but it also does plenty of things right that 343 has abandoned, Halo CE even more so. I would prefer to see them look at what the most successful games in the series did right, replicate THAT and then worry about innovation. Like what the Coalition is doing with Gears 4. With regards to the “modern halo” players being hurt by a return to form, I have seen pretty much no intelligent arguments in favor of modernization from people who legitimately understand would these changes do to the game as a whole. This makes it difficult for me to legitimately believe that they know what they would enjoy. When arguments in favor of sprint boil down to “They’re super soldiers. It’s realistic.”
>
> To be honest, I think that Halo 5 could very easily be a great Halo game if they were simply willing to accept that certain mechanics are failures and remove them instead of spending incredible amounts of development time nerfing them. Something as simple as removing sprint and increasing the base movement speed (possibly widening the field of view as well) to compensation would make a huge difference. They wouldn’t even need to remove other elements of the movement mechanics in that case (slide and thrust would not be inherently incompatible with this change) and being able to accomplish higher level movement tech without sprint would be inherently more flexible. Increasing the default strafe acceleration could make your movement (aside from thrust) a bigger part of fights. Significant aerial control in favor of thrust could be very interesting, with fewer downsides (imagine that aerial strafe). Clamber could be replaced with more flexible mechanics that don’t interrupt combat (double jump or higher base jump height, for example). Reducing the complete dominance of automatics in favor of niche utility and useful roles outside of “kill things fast” in close quarters would reward skilled players more. The list continues.
>
> I think it’s a misunderstanding of the larger argument to say that people critiquing modern Halo want it to play exactly like the classic games. I don’t think that’s largely the case. People like myself just want an evolution of the series that first, does not undermine core game-play tenants that the series was built on and second, is not based on a clear desire to appeal to the audiences of other games like Call of Duty.

This is what I’m trying to say, I think if they remove Sprint, increase the field of view, increase the movement speed are heavy changes to the gameplay. If you pick up DOOM as an example: you have fast movement, douple jumps, large field of view. I played the multiplayer and it’s very difficult to hit the enemy with a rocket, for example, and you contantly lose the opponent from your view because it is too fast. And I’m “pro sprint”, just because I can move in three different speeds (crouching, walking, sprinting), and sprint is Halo 5 is smart, if you run like a dumb through the map, you gonna get killed, your shileds will not recharge, you need to know how to use it, when: “oh, enemy is aiming the ball in assault, better I sprint to reach that spot as soon as I can”.
Again: 343 needs to replicate what is good, but they cannot just remove something people like or dislike, without the other people raise the “bring back” flag thread. They can give more priority to the old school fans, the majority of this community IMO, but the new players are relevant too, and they can’t ignore them.
343I is in a difficulty position, and I am wondering what they can do to make everybody satisfied.

13

> 2533274890584596;10:
> > 2535455681930574;7:
> > > 2533274890584596;6:
> > > They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.
> >
> >
> > You only talked about halo 4. This is the halo 5 forum.
>
>
> Uhh. What? That entire post is in reference to Halo 5.

He only mentions halo 4 and reach.

14

I think a major issue here is the fact: NOTHING WAS BROKEN BEFORE! Like what needed to be fixed from the transition between Bungie to 343i? In all truth and seriousness, the changing of almost every mechanic and style of Halo wasn’t done to benefit or promote growth of the franchise, it was to start a whole new culture under a new studio. Which is pretty asinine on their part if you ask me, again why change and mess with an original formula? All they had to do was keep making sure that puppy stayed health and gave it the proper care and love it needed. Instead, we get part of parts of parts in the Master Chief Collection, Cortana goes ape-shoot crazy in 4, and all of a sudden 5 doesn’t feature even half of the game with the main character! They even went so far as to make Chief a broken machine; fundamentally flawed! Like how can you tear apart something so brutally with no conscious or concern for its legacy?!

15

> 2535455681930574;13:
> > 2533274890584596;10:
> > > 2535455681930574;7:
> > > > 2533274890584596;6:
> > > > They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.
> > >
> > >
> > > You only talked about halo 4. This is the halo 5 forum.
> >
> >
> > Uhh. What? That entire post is in reference to Halo 5.
>
>
> He only mentions halo 4 and reach.

Yeah, pretty much comparing Halo 5 to those games. That seemed pretty obvious…

16

> 2533274890584596;6:
> They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.

Exactly, that’s part of the reason why I’m not enjoying Halo 5.

17

They haven’t achieved it yet, but they are getting there

18

> 2535455681930574;13:
> > 2533274890584596;10:
> > > 2535455681930574;7:
> > > > 2533274890584596;6:
> > > > They did not go back to their roots and it’s astounding to me that anyone can look at what is essentially “Halo 4 if it wasn’t complete garbage” in terms of core mechanics and pretend that it isn’t still full of derivative “modernizations” that have well-documented and far-reaching negative impacts on the Halo formula. And it continues to look like CoD to all of the millions of ex-Halo players that stopped caring about the series in the past 6 years. That’s not going to change until they let go of all of the unsuccessful ideas from Reach/4 and actually refine the HALO FORMULA.
> > >
> > >
> > > You only talked about halo 4. This is the halo 5 forum.
> >
> >
> > Uhh. What? That entire post is in reference to Halo 5.
>
>
> He only mentions halo 4 and reach.

Going to warn you man. Don’t bother trying to have a discussion with arglactable.

I tried and all he did was act like everything he said was truth, he wouldn’t listen to anything I said, and on top of that made random assumptions and made degrading comments.

Just stop now buddy.

19

> 2535461287427665;14:
> I think a major issue here is the fact: NOTHING WAS BROKEN BEFORE! Like what needed to be fixed from the transition between Bungie to 343i? In all truth and seriousness, the changing of almost every mechanic and style of Halo wasn’t done to benefit or promote growth of the franchise, it was to start a whole new culture under a new studio. Which is pretty asinine on their part if you ask me, again why change and mess with an original formula? All they had to do was keep making sure that puppy stayed health and gave it the proper care and love it needed. Instead, we get part of parts of parts in the Master Chief Collection, Cortana goes ape-shoot crazy in 4, and all of a sudden 5 doesn’t feature even half of the game with the main character! They even went so far as to make Chief a broken machine; fundamentally flawed! Like how can you tear apart something so brutally with no conscious or concern for its legacy?!

In this part I agree in what you said, Halo 4 story was something unexplored before and I like it alot, but in some reason, Halo 5 has nothing to do with its predecessors. 343 Industries failed in Halo 5 campaign, but I don’t think the community is divided because of the campaign. We want more Chief, Halo 5 hasn’t he. IMO, it is unanimous for the whole community that Halo 5 Campaing is a huge disappointment.
But 343 is a different studio, they need to respect and make the series go on, but they need to explore the Halo universe, put the 343 Industries quality seal and an authoral line up.
I’m referring much more about gameplay mechanics especially in multiplayer, but I understand your criticism.

20

IMO 343 will never unite the fanbase again. Once they added the new mechanics, there’s a split between modern and classic gameplay. They’ve gone too far and can’t satisfy both sides