343, Hit Detection is Game-ruining (tested).

I’m gonna’ cut to the chase here: Hit detection and subsequently bullet magnetism is WAY too large and lenient. The sheer ease of targeting kills competitive play, or any kind of skilled play, dead.

It is the root cause of the vast majority of complaints with the multiplayer at the moment - including the distance-camper problem on big maps and fast kill times in all playlists. In fact, it’s absolutely ludicrous how easy it is to shoot someone because of this issue. A good portion of our concerns should be second to this, because the game is nothing short of a unskilled fragging match and big team camp-fest right now and no map tweaking or individual weapon nerf/buff will change that until this issue is seen to.


It is near-impossible to engage in a good old DMR/BR/AR/etc. fight like previous Halo’s with Halo 4, because it is practically impossible to “miss” your dodging target - and even when you do miss, you’ll likely hit them anyway. Don’t even bother attempting to dodge incoming rounds, as your opponent only barely needs their larger sight reticule to be aiming somewhere near you to obtain a hit.

At this point I probably sound like a butthurt teen, but I assure you this has been tested and proven. Hell, I encourage each and every one of you to try it out for yourselves on your own copies of Halo 4. Go into forge and slap a load of weapons down with a friend or two and test the weapons out at different ranges. Aim just-off your target… then you’ll see for your own eyes the point I’m about to make. I would have screenshot evidence as I’ve run a few hours long test of my own, but the Fileshare system isn’t running yet, so I will upload them ASAP once the system’s green-lighted if the topic issue/problem/bug/shortcoming/poor design choice hasn’t been rectified by then.


The DMR in-scope at short to very long range will not miss a single shot when an opponent has any body part barely on the outer reticle edge and you can fire away guaranteeing a hit on every single shot made.

Now that might just sound a little off, but let me remind you that the sights are actually disproportionately larger when scoped, and bullets should go to the inner reticle nearly every time. Instead, the bullets will hit a person 100% of the time if they’re even relatively near the outer reticule edge (just turned blue from red when aiming slowly away).

The same goes for the BR, Light Rifle and Sniper rifles. To put it blunt, it is intolerable that these weapons will hit and kill someone who is hardly, and I mean hardly, in those outer sights - or with some guns, simply no target actually within them will earn hit markers and shield damage. Ironically, the carbine is the only weapon that does not seem to be overly affected by this problem. While it is still a large issue unscoped, it’s mostly but-not-limited-to precision weapons in-scope; primarily the DMR. Because of this people are encouraged unwittingly to camp over the tops of objects, in-scope and cross-map as it’s naturally a safe and easy way to earn easy kills.

Hell, grab a laser and try it. You only get a hit if your target has a body part in line with the dead-centre of the sights. How is it that a laser, meant for use against vehicles, requires sniper-levels of accuracy, when a DMR dominates with flawless artificial accuracy from most ranges? It appeared to be the only weapon that behaved as you’d expect all the other precision weapons to behave.

Now, unscoped each gun offers different results, but the general result was that the range of some is still unreasonably far. In one test, what was generally agreed to be the optimal BR range had the Assault Rifle killing just a little faster, therefore more successfully, and a simulated repeated fight supported this argument. Once again, try it for yourselves and I’m sure you’ll get similar results.


If 343 makes the inner reticules of precision weapons the guaranteed hit instead of the outer reticules they currently have adopted, the game will still only be as (un)balanced as it is now. It will, however, but a much more competitive-friendly place with a good learning curve instead of the non-existent learning curve it has now.

I suggest that 343 reduce the range at which most guns obtain a red targeting reticule at current overly-long distances, close in their super-kind artificial accuracy to a more reasonable human-dependant accuracy of the inner-reticule of DMR and more centred for the BR and LR, and mildly reduce the bullet damage of the loadout primary guns at their adjusted longest ranges and beyond. I also recommend a reduction in bullet stopping power overall, but mostly across larger distances to give retreating from a bad spawn or distance-camper a possibility. Overall this should encourage players to get a little closer on the bigger maps as they’re subtly shown that pelican to cliff-wall on Ragnarok is not a suitable range to successfully engage someone at. In theory, this should mostly eliminate the “first to shoot, wins” and cross-map fighting; which in turn should be primarily reserved to sniper-play, vehicle attacks and pot-shots. Guns will be less effective at such super ranges they work so well at now, but fine at all other ranges relative to damage today. Remember: They’re precision weapons, not base-camping, cliff-hugging, peek-a-boo BOOM-HEADSHOT weapons. On the flip-side, for Precision Weapons they certainly don’t need much of it to do exceptionally well.

These changes would not only benefit combat on large maps, but matches across all maps and playlists. BR/DMR duels will become just that again with the much higher demand for human controlled accuracy over the artificial aiming assist “easy-mode” accuracy, requiring more skill in multiplayer and nothing more. Its effects on the flow of the game will be minor at best. A single, crucial missed shot or two would be more likely to occur, handing equal-weapon victory’s to the most skilled person rather than the person who squeezed their shot off first.

At the very least, 343, consider it. To anyone else thinking I’m talking nonsense, go see for yourselves. As I’ve pointed out a few times now: it can be seen first hand - or if you want 343 to keep it easy, why?

EDIT: A few people are noting that it’s just a console aim assist or bullet magnetism that Halo’s always had. This is not an aim assist, but a stupidly overcompensating bullet magnetism hit aide. It’s a fully fledged targeting system that requires no work beyond your enemy having so much as a breadth of hair inside the extra-broad targeting radius of most precision guns before it’s landing you a 100% hit every time.

EDIT 2: All evidence clips are in my fileshare GT “Bvenged” under the map Ragnarok. For the entire test clip see the film “Ragnarok”. Note: testing doesn’t work in splitscreen, weapon accuracy behaves differently in local-mode to Xbox Live for some reason.

Halo 2 had just as big aim assist as Halo 4. Yet, it is considered to be the “pinnacle” of online competitive shooters for consoles.

controllers aren’t ideal for shooter video games. aim assist has been present in all halo games and any good game out there.

i’m sorry that this is new to you, but don’t worry about it. it doesn’t kill competition, it doesn’t make the game bad, calm down.

> Halo 2 had just as big aim assist as Halo 4. Yet, it is considered to be the “pinnacle” of online competitive shooters for consoles.

I disagree, but in any case the difference there was resolution, engine and balance. Halo 4 displays more on screen at a higher resolution and there’s not just 1 precision weapon that everybody has.

With Halo 4 there are a vast sum of things more that 343 have to take into consideration than Bungie did for Halo 2. Balance is no longer “spawns, carbine and BR, grenades, line of sight.” but "AA’s, Vehicles, 2x as many weapons, rate of fire, damage over distance, stopping power, sprint, grenades, map flow, camp spots, and likely, many more.

To put it simply, Halo 2’s targeting system was simple, because it was a simpler game. Ignoring BXR, you could still dodge shots as you could in any Halo game and Halo 4 needs to follow suit on its road to getting things right. It’s too fast paced as it is, but at least allow skillful players a chance to outplay an enemy. It’s currently impossible.

> > but at least allow skillful players a chance to outplay an enemy. It’s currently impossible.
>
> I guess you weren’t the skillful player in this case, were you?

> controllers aren’t ideal for shooter video games. aim assist has been present in all halo games and any good game out there.
>
> i’m sorry that this is new to you, but don’t worry about it. it doesn’t kill competition, it doesn’t make the game bad, calm down.

It’s never been this bad though, I’ve played a bit of Halo 2, full duration of Halo 3 and Reach, and it’s NEVER been this bad, the accuracy is way too high, I can round a corner and be shot off the get-go and die before I can say “crap”. Put me in that situation in any other game and I would have been able to avoid instant death.

I am an average player with normally a 1.25-1.3 K/D with upwards of 40-50k kills at the start of every new halo game, with that said, I’ve never had such ease with hitting the last shot in their head, I can out snipe people with the DMR and easily kill people at long range with a final head shot on complex.

This isn’t how Halo is supposed to be.

> Aim assist has been present in all halo games and any good game out there.

Yeah, but they were exactly that. Aim Assists. A minor aide to your accuracy. A slight slow-down as you passed your sights over a target to give you a chance to stop and follow them.

In Halo 4 we have tested and seen with our own eyes that it is no longer an assist, but a fully-fledged targeting system. Get your sights vaguely near someone and the games does all the rest. I’m not talking just-off crosshair, scrape the armor, but full-on misses and the game’s giving 100% hits.

> > It’s never been this bad though, I’ve played a bit of Halo 2, full duration of Halo 3 and Reach, and it’s NEVER been this bad, the accuracy is way too high, I can round a corner and be shot off the get-go and die before I can say “crap”. Put me in that situation in any other game and I would have been able to avoid instant death.
> > quote]
> >
> > i’m seeing all these personal situations which, while endlessly entertaining, do not qualify as the normative experience. most people, when rounding a corner and get shot at, will get back around that corner (unless they are killed in one shot). you chose not to do this, and died for it.

> i’m seeing all these personal situations which, while endlessly entertaining, do not qualify as the normative experience. most people, when rounding a corner and get shot at, will get back around that corner (unless they are killed in one shot). you chose not to do this, and died for it.

Actually, whilst in previous Halo games that might be true, the dominating stopping power effect in Halo 4 prevents nearly all kinds of retreat.

Where only 1 bullet should hit you before you’re back behind cover, the stopping power slows you by nearly 50%, so you’ll take at least 1 more (assuming you weren’t expecting it) before you’re safe again. Unless you knew you were pinned down, realistically you’ll take 2 bullets before getting to cover in prior Halo games. In Halo 4 it’s more like 4-5 bullets. The first catches you out a few metres from cover and slows you, the other 3-4 will kill you just as you get to it.

So it’s even unfair in that regard. It’s not a choice, dude, it’s the automated accuracy, encouraged distance-camping with sniper-class primary weapons and overwhelming stopping power that force the issue.

> EDIT: A few people are noting that it’s just a console aim assist that Halo’s always had. This is not an aim assist. Aim assist is a slight slow-down as you pass your crosshairs over a target to give you a chance to more-easily follow or stop on them. This is not that. This is a fully fledged targeting system that requires no work beyond a general direction before landing you 100% hits.

The term they were looking for was “bullet magnetism”. That’s also been in every Halo game, but to varying degrees. I’m not skilled enough to say for sure how strong it was in more recent iterations, like 3 and Reach.

> > EDIT: A few people are noting that it’s just a console aim assist that Halo’s always had. This is not an aim assist. Aim assist is a slight slow-down as you pass your crosshairs over a target to give you a chance to more-easily follow or stop on them. This is not that. This is a fully fledged targeting system that requires no work beyond a general direction before landing you 100% hits.
>
> The term they were looking for was “bullet magnetism”. That’s also been in every Halo game, but to varying degrees. I’m not skilled enough to say for sure how strong it was in more recent iterations, like 3 and Reach.

Before, your target had to be well within your sights to get ‘bullet magnetism’. The point I’m making is that in Halo 4, at ludicrous ranges (and I mean ludicrous), your target only has to sneeze into your wider sights to become a 100% hit, 5-shot dead target. I’ll let the EDIT stand though because if I remove it more people will say it’s Aim Assist, and it’s not.

Aim-assist is not the big issue here when it comes to precision weapons; for that you can blame bullet magnetism.

343 spent a lot of time balancing weapons, and I think they did a pretty good job overall. However, I do believe that bullet magnetism on precision weapons should be toned down at long ranges. The reason I say ‘long ranges’ is because of the reduced kill times of automatic weapons.

On automatics the aim-assist needs to be drastically reduced. I tested different weapons for aim-assist in a custom game. I found that if you even walk by someone who holding an AR that their reticle will track you without anyone touching the controller. It is down-right rediculous.

—> To increase the skill gap, bullet magnetism on precision weapons at long ranges should be reduced as well as aim-assist on automatics.

> Aim-assist is not the big issue here when it comes to precision weapons; for that you can blame bullet magnetism.
>
> 343 spent a lot of time balancing weapons, and I think they did a pretty good job overall. However, I do believe that bullet magnetism on precision weapons should be toned down at long ranges. The reason I say ‘long ranges’ is because of the reduced kill times of automatic weapons.
>
> On automatics the aim-assist needs to be drastically reduced. I tested different weapons for aim-assist in a custom game. I found that if you even walk by someone who holding an AR that their reticle will track you without anyone touching the controller. It is down-right rediculous.
>
> —> To increase the skill gap, bullet magnetism on precision weapons at long ranges should be reduced as well as aim-assist on automatics.

Agreed with OP. The bullet magnetism should be toned down. I’m an average player at best, but I’ve gotten off a few too many crack shots in my day using a BR/DMR or Snapshots with a Sniper rifle that I don’t think I should have gotten. I only use the Carbine or Lightrifle now because they don’t seem to be so drastic.

To second CAVEMANcr in regards to the AIM-assist, many times I have been focusing on an enemy in the distance only to have my reticule move when another crosses in front. Not only is this annoying, but disorientating and occasionally costs me a kill.

“any body part barely on the outer reticle edge”

Do you realise that it has been this way since Halo 1?

> Halo 2 had just as big aim assist as Halo 4. Yet, it is considered to be the “pinnacle” of online competitive shooters for consoles.

Not really, H4’s is much worse. Not to mention Halo 2 came out 8 years ago.

> “any body part barely on the outer reticle edge”
>
> Do you realise that it has been this way since Halo 1?

No, no it’s not. Bullet Magnetism has always existed but not even at half the severity it is at now. In prior games someone had to be just-off the dead centre to get hit. I even think Bungie disabled magnetism with Reach in favour of bloom. In any case, the reticules in Halo 4 are much larger, and are capable at a severely longer range.

I’m not here to argue how it worked in older games, because it’s simply not working well in this one - or even working way, way too well.

> > > It’s never been this bad though, I’ve played a bit of Halo 2, full duration of Halo 3 and Reach, and it’s NEVER been this bad, the accuracy is way too high, I can round a corner and be shot off the get-go and die before I can say “crap”. Put me in that situation in any other game and I would have been able to avoid instant death.
> > > quote]
> > >
> > > i’m seeing all these personal situations which, while endlessly entertaining, do not qualify as the normative experience. most people, when rounding a corner and get shot at, will get back around that corner (unless they are killed in one shot). you chose not to do this, and died for it.
> >
> > Kill time of a DMR is about 1.8 seconds, with two people there shooting you, you are almost guaranteed a death within 1 second. It’s not always common but its a more norm now than any other game ever.

I’ll only say this, the DMR needs to get slowed down for kill time. Most of these guns’ kill times require perfect accuracy which I’ve really only seen the DMR get and the BR RARELY and when you are getting 5 shotted from the hip across Solace or Ragnarok, you know something’s up. I have played all the Halo’s and the bullet magnetism in my opinion was never like this. Because of that I refuse to use the DMR because it requires next to no skill, the game aims for you, and the bloom is nonexistent! Even at maxbloom you still have a huge chance of getting a headshot. You know what that encourages? SPAMMING! Long story short I think it is stupid for the DMR to get all this magnetism when it’s a marksman weapon and the entire drawback to it was if you missed you missed and if you spammed you became really inaccurate. Neither of these are true in Halo 4 so really it is just like the DMR has a disproportionate advantage with everything in this game. It is not skill, Reach’s DMR and the Halo 3 BR required skill.

> > > > It’s never been this bad though, I’ve played a bit of Halo 2, full duration of Halo 3 and Reach, and it’s NEVER been this bad, the accuracy is way too high, I can round a corner and be shot off the get-go and die before I can say “crap”. Put me in that situation in any other game and I would have been able to avoid instant death.
> > > > quote]
> > > >
> > > > i’m seeing all these personal situations which, while endlessly entertaining, do not qualify as the normative experience. most people, when rounding a corner and get shot at, will get back around that corner (unless they are killed in one shot). you chose not to do this, and died for it.
> > >
> > > Kill time of a DMR is about 1.8 seconds, with two people there shooting you, you are almost guaranteed a death within 1 second. It’s not always common but its a more norm now than any other game ever.
> >
> > Situations like this wouldn’t even be so bad if the Booster pack Armour ability wasn’t so crap. But its is and you still die before you can get to cover most of the time.

I totally agree with OP.

I’ve spent many hours of my life playing the previous Halo games online and I have to say that what OP is saying is totally true.

Within the first 10 minutes of playing Halo 4 online I’d noticed how they seemed to have increased the size of the hit boxes quite dramatically. Especially the head-shot hit box, it seems to be almost the same size as the body-shot box!
I get way more kills with the DMR and BR in this game than any of the previous games.

Also, while we’re on the subject, why on earth does the DMR even have reticule bloom? It doesn’t seem to make the smallest bit of difference, I spam the trigger as fast as I can and every shot still finds my enemies head regardless of how bloomed the reticule is.