343 here's a sandbox balance suggestion for 2023 (with poll)

Games Halo Infinite
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1

First off this game already has a pretty balanced sanbox but I think it could use the following tweaks:

  1. Dynamo Grenades
  • direct contact with vehicles is necessary to stun them
  • grenade destroyed upon contact with vehicle
    Or
  • turn into equipment
  • quantity goes down to 1 for pickups
  1. Vehicles [general]
  • increase health
  • lower vehicle weapon damage
  1. Wraith
  • slow mortar projectile drastically
  • increase gravity drop of mortar drastically
  • increase size/blast radius of mortar drastically
  1. Skewer
  • slow projectile dramatically
  • increase gravity drop of projectile
  • increase physical knockback of projectile
  • increase lever pull distance on reload animation
  1. Grapple
  • add possible counter to grapple-jack

Suggestions 1-5 would make vehicles stronger at crossing maps while preventing them from giving easy kill streaks to those piloting them.

The Dynamo grenades are too easy of a vehicle counter so having to land a direct in combo with the grenade’s destruction upon vehicle contact makes them take more skill to stun then also prevent the long continuous stuns that occurs now. If they were an equipment like Halo 3’s Power Drain it could still be strong but the lower abundance would prevent them from being overly strong like they are now. No other Halo has had so many easy anti vehicle counters and the dynamo is currently the biggest offender until changes are made.

The Wraith seems to be tuned to be a direct competitor to the Scorpion and thats not the function it used to serve. I think a rework back to a more indirect mortar and a large blast radius would give it a unique position in the sanbox.

The Skewer is just too easy to land shots at a distance. Also seeing a giant spike flying with little drop just doesn’t make too much sense. Not to analyze a game too much but clearly the Skewer doesn’t use gun powder or plasma to launch itself. It seems to have a firing mechanism closer to a crossbow and the lever you pull on top is pulling the launch cable back. The reload animation is just too short of a reset for the cable to be pulled back far enough to physically launch a spike at that velocity. To top it off I would like to see the knockback the Skewer had in the trailer for Infinite in the scene where it throws a warthog into the air. The Rocket can be for direct damage to a vehicle, allow the Skewer to be a physical hazard to them instead.

The grapple-jack is simply too easy of a counter to vehicle’s so it needs a nerf. Titanfall gave Titans limited quantity shock smoke to deal with hijacks so something in that vein would be nice.

  1. BR
  • add bloom to hip fire
  1. Commando
  • remove bloom

This would allow the commando to be better because its still trash compared to all the other range weapons and then the BR would be pushed into the longer range roll right above the Commando’s effective range. The BR has been too versatile for too long and this change would make it easier to see its intended use case and prevent it from being so effective outside of that intended usecase.

This way people would actually have to use close range map weapons to help defend themselves with BR spawns.

The ranged weapons would then all have a unique weakness.

  • Sniper = slow firing
  • Stalker Rifle = overheats quicky if spam fired
  • Commando = heavy recoil
  • BR = bloom when

The close range weapons already have weaknesses so they are fairly balanced already.

  1. Maps
  • add more open maps like Blood Gulch, Valhalla, and Sandtrap for BTB

All BTB maps pretty much prevent good vehicle play. The only viable strategies are to fly by the enemies in a capture the flag mode and hope you don’t get blown up or to sit in the back and try to plink people off. Changes 1-5 would help make vehicles fair but there are still no maps for them to shine.

Not every map needs every type of weapon either. I know people say Blood Gulch isn’t fun because its just open field and then getting lasered by BRs. Maybe don’t have the BR on that map then and add more vehicles and more anti vehicle weapons so that vehicle play and counter-play is the main focus of some of these maps. That is something i have missed since Halo 3.

  1. Pulse Rifle
  • increase damage drastically
  • slow projectile speed drastically
    or
  • swap burst fire function for full auto and basically have another plasma rifle

The pulse rifle was definitely designed for the campaign to allow players the ability to dodge bursts and weave in the space in-between them. This is fine for PvE but in multiplayer the weapon is just plain bad. What they could have done is have a Plasma Rifle then just have the campaing enemies burst fire it so that we could have the full auto function in PvP because the burst is just too easy to dodge in PvP.

  1. Plasma Pistol
  • add lingering burn effect to charged shot

This gives the plasma pistol a bit more utility.

  1. Ravager
  • increase alt fire shot duration significantly
  • lower alt fire shot damage

This allows the Ravager to perform area denial better.

  1. Hydra
  • lower damage
  • increase fire rate
  • make it full auto
    or
  • semi auto is homing
  • alt fire is dumb missles but full auto
    in both cases
  • add a mag reload

As it sits the Hydra is just boring as heck to use. Something more akin to Doom micromissles or Titanfall Sidewinder would be way more fun to use.

1 Like
3

For those that disagree it would be nice to know why. Especially if you disagree with all of them. I figured some like the Plasma Pistol one would at least get 1 vote out of you.

Also sorry for not putting the name of the item to be changed in the poll answers. Thats a lot of scrolling i didn’t anticipate…i would fix it but it would get rid of 4 peoples votes and seeing as that could easily be most of the total votes this thing gets I’d rather not.

4

I only voted for 8 because everyone wants more maps and variety is good.

The following is just my opinion. Love the effort that went into your post even if I disagree with most of the changes.

  1. Love what it’s trying to do but I think it’s simpler and better to just lower the amount of stun damage that they do to vehicles.
  2. Too widespread a change some vehicles are already quite tough to destroy after the last balance changes.
  3. Not against the idea overall but the Scorpion is already way better then the Wraith and this doesn’t sound like it will balance them out.
  4. Almost voted yes for this but the word drastically scared me off. Wouldn’t mind some moderate changes along the lines you suggested.
  5. It’s a key counter to vehicles that I think works well. It’s not appropriate for every map/scenario but it’s optional equipment so that’s on the developers to manage availability.
  6. I really like where the BR is at now after its recent nerf. Don’t think it needs more, plus the public outcry would be a thing to behold.
  7. Removing bloom is nice in theory but it would require a total rebalance of the weapon or it would be way too good.
  8. Voted yes.
  9. I think the Pulse Carbine is reasonably effective as it is now. I totally want the Pulse Rifle to return on its own.
  10. The charged shot is already pretty powerful. It’s the primary fire that needs some love.
  11. Not against it. Could see this working well on BTB maps but not sure about it on smaller maps.
  12. I quite like the Hydra as it is now. I find it to be pretty fun and quite effective. Maybe a small buff for un-guided mode would be okay.

Edit: Turns out the forum will not let you skip a number in a list.

2 Likes
5

So this change wasn’t suggested to even them out. It was to differentiate them more significantly. I feel as the series has gone on the Wraith has become more like the Scorpion by having its mortar become less arched and smaller with a faster travel speed to operate closer to a Scorpion.

Maybe the addition of a different reticle that showed up from a distance on the ground to show you where it would hit so the Wraith would then operate more like artillery than a battle tank.

I also know the change to the BR would never happen due to public pressure but i think the sandbox plays best when weapons have unique usecases and no weapon is a “Utility Weapon”. Thats the main reason i want the BR change i suggested.

All the other comments i see where you are coming from even if i disagree with them. Thanks for the comments though. Its always fun to talk about Halo and love the effort put into the response.

2 Likes
6

There should not be any bloom on precision/single shot weapons, ever. Reach completely killing competitive Halo wasn’t enough to drill this fact home I guess.

3 Likes
7

Bloom is really one of the only good ways to balance precision weapons.

A long range, perfectly accurate, basically hitscan, no recoil weapon with a large mag and ammo pool is just poor design to start with.

People got used to the BR being so OP and now like any OP weapon getting nerfed, people who got used to being able to use it as a crutch get upset.

9

Do share your “better” ideas. Curious as to what they are.

10

  1. Until there’s better options against air units, I’d say don’t touch Dynamo grenades directly. If anything, maybe make it that they don’t get released in sets of 2 perhaps?

  2. This should be touched up on a vehicle by vehicle basis. For instance, I think the Wasp needs to be easier to kill, while the banshee needs to be way more durable. Most of the vehicles though seem fine, at least to me. If they buffed them any health, it shouldn’t be large buffs.

  3. I don’t agree with any of this, leave them just as they are IMO.

  4. I don’t agree with this either IMO, keep it as is.

  5. Make it that grappling vehicles from the front, on a vehicle that’s at full speed and/or boosting, will splatter the grappler. You’re flying at the vehicle should make the impact of the vehicle significantly harder on your body then if the vehicle just slammed into you normally. So jacking from the front should be way more riskier.

Maybe Vanhalla, but not Blood Gulch. Anymap that has hidious large sight lines you’re going to absolutely hate good snipers on them. Vanhalla was better then Blood Gulch in just about every way though.

All weapon changes are just a flat no from me IMO.

11

That actually would be great. The coding would have to be good though or it could be super frustrating.

12

Absolutely agree. I never thought this made any sense. The only vehicles i think you should be able to grapple from the front are the tank, wraith (when not boosting, that tiny boost it has then can be used tactically) and wasp, since they are pretty slow vehicles (and the wasp otherwise is almost ungrappable).

1 Like
13

I meant to say maybe those maps are missing all ranged precision weapons like the BR so no sniper as well. Give the vehicles a chance to shine on certain maps.

There would have to be more anti vehicle weapons and the lack of ranged weapons would kind of force vehicle use.

This also requires symmetrical vehicle spawns so i should have put that up there as well.

As for this. You have the Hydra, Skewer, Sniper, Shock Rifle, and the Cinder Shot to deal with air vehicles along with grapple jacks if they get close and other vehicles to take them on. There are plenty of options.

Halo 3 had the Power Drain as an equipment so let me add that as an option up there because that worked fine back then.

14

I disagree with some changes since I don’t play BTB much. Dynamo grenades are awesome in 4v4, they were instrumental in an epic comeback we had the other night. The new BTB map should play a lot better for vehicles from what I’ve seen.

2 Likes
15

@Scamdemic9716 If none of my changes work i would also suggest either:

  • Take Dynamo nades out of BTB
  • Maybe remake power drain equipment

Or

  • Prevent Dynamo grenades from stunning vehicles
  • Maybe remake power drain equipment

The second option here does mess with how they perform in 4v4 on maps like Behemoth that have vehicles so probably not the best option.

16

Then how do you prevent them from being the best weapon category in the game by miles?

With Covenant/Banished weapons you can have overheating but with UNSC you only have a few options:

  • lower bullet velocity
  • low mag size
  • low damage (if it has high range then you have to use said range to stay safe while using the lower damage weapon)
  • slow fire rate
  • higher recoil

If every UNSC precision ranged weapon is balanced using lower bullet velocity ranged weapons would still be incredible up close just a bit harder to use at longer ranges which is counter to its role.

With a low mag size its basically just the human version of overheating quickly. That would get old pn every ranged weapon.

Lower damage is an option but people would definitely not like it in a game like Halo with already longer TTK but it would honestly be kind of fair.

Slow fire rate only helps so much. If you slow it down too much people expect higher damage per shot and even then without this in addition to a smaller mag the weapon would still be really strong at close range. The sniper also aready has this exact set up so there shouldn’t be another weapon just like it.

High recoil is an option and it works well on the Commando. Only problem is the BR is so strong that it can more easily descope and suppress any commando (and while we are here the Stalker Rifle) user to force them to descope making them way less effective.

The BR is simply too well rounded and needs to fill a bit smaller of a roll because as it sits you rarely need another weapon with BR starts. Its so good that even descoped you are barely at a disadvantage. Bloom would bring it into a proper ranged weapon roll thus making you rely on the close range weapons to more effectively protect yourself if an enemy gets in close.

Removing bloom on the Commando really wouldn’t make it much better. The heavy recoil makes it more optimal to control your shots into bursts anyway. Bloom is really just doing the same thing and doesn’t affect the burst fire that much because it takes a few shots to bloom the reticle anyway. So in essence bloom doesn’t affect the Commando when it is used properly therefore removing the bloom from it and adding bloom to the BR would balance the weapons fairly.

1 Like
17

  1. If anything about the dynamo grenade is to change, just reduce its effective range/reach. Those tickle fingers be long.

  2. Grapple-Jack already is a counter with fairly limited uses and player vulnerability; I don’t see a need to counter a counter in this context.

6 & 7. I’m not a fan of bloom in Halo. If anything should have bloom, it’s ARs and LMGs. The Commando can finally outperform the BR in certain instances thanks to the latest update tweaks (although I wouldn’t mind a revert to the original DPS output from the flights)

  1. Plasma Rifle works so much better now thanks to the tracking changes. Combined with the Sidekick, I think this weapon now performs as intended.

  2. I think the Hydra is fun.

18

Lower bullet velocity + lower aim assist is all that’s required, and we could even decrease the ttk on top of it. We don’t need bloom, recoil, spread, or damage falloff, and we don’t need to nerf damage or rate of fire. It worked fine in CE, and it could work in infinite. And I’m not talking about MCC CE where the bullet magnetism is through the roof, I mean original CE on the xbox.

2 Likes
19

1: Having Dynamo Grenades destroyed upon contact with vehicles sounds interesting. I can see some unique engagements where players going against the Dynamo grenade might intentionally run their mongoose into a Dynamo Grenade, or players with the grenade being more strategic in how they throw the grenade, creating an extra skill gap.

2: I agree some vehicles could use a health boost, particularly the warthog. However, I found most vehicles to be fine in my own experience, and sometimes how balanced the vehicles were depended on the map. For example, in deadlock, it’s a lot more difficult for players to destroy a Scorpion with the map’s long, narrow pathways compared to a map like Fragmentation, which has a lot more cover for players to maneuver.

3: This reminds me of the Halo 3’s Wraith a bit, honestly I wouldn’t mind seeing how the changes play out.

4: Maybe, one trait I enjoyed about the Skewer was how it was somewhat effective in close to medium range. Slowing down the projectile speed and increasing the gravity drop shouldn’t greatly affect player combat close to medium range while balancing out vehicle combat.

However, this does make the Skewer tremendously challenging against wasps, and I’m not sure if the projectile speed should be slowed dramatically. However, as long as there are other viable weapons to counter the wasp like the Sniper, Hydra launcher, or Shock rifle, this shouldn’t be much of a problem.

5: Agreed

6: I understand you’re trying to encourage sandbox versatility, but I’m not sure about adding a little bit of RNG is the best solution. Perhaps by decreasing the BR’s projectile speed or removing its vertical kick would be a better solution. Instead of the player fighting against the game, he/she/it the fault is on the player.

7: Currently the Commando feels like the little brother of the BR, I’ll only really use the Commando when I have no other medium- long-range weapon. Despite this, I still have a lot of fun using the Commando it’s a lot of fun to use. Currently, I’m indifferent.

8: Agreed, helps give some diversity from the current BTB maps. I’ll also love it if 343 implemented environmental interaction such as the windmill from Last resort.

9: Honestly I found the Pulse Rifle to be very effective in the medium range. The weapon projectiles literally track down on my enemy and the TTK was fair.

10: While I do think this gives the plasma pistol more utility I would prefer for its EMP to return. Yes, that does conflict with the role of the disruptor, but both weapons are used differently. The Plasma pistol EMP projectile was slow, requiring players to pace their charge when trying to EMP a vehicle. In contrast, EMPing with the disruptor is just pressing the right trigger.

11: Indifferent

12: Ehh I’ll have to think about it.

Overall, I appreciate the sandbox balance suggestions, there are some things that I like, and others where I disagree, but I’m mostly indifferent to most of the suggestions made.

2 Likes
20

The reason i can’t get behind this is because that adds one more easy anti vehicle option and there are already too many as is. Maybe if they got rid of the Disruptor i could agree but i would rather keep the Disruptor.

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For those suggesting slower projectile speed is what the BR needs i would say you are balancing it in the wrong area.

The slower projectile speed would really only affect it at range. The BR is fine at range. It needs to stay where its at, in terms of ranged effectiveness, because it fills the upper medium to lower long ranged combat role.

What it is too effective at is the close range combat. The BR is too easy to use outside of its intended use case or at least the use case that the gun presents itself as filling.

This is why minor bloom while hipfiring would make it more difficult to use at close range and thus finally put it into a use case the same size as the rest of the sanbox.

22

In close range the BR loses against the AR and Sidekick and also against the commando if used properly.