343, Here is your Fan Base. Now Help It.

We’re five months into Halo 4’s life span, and it’s been a rocky four months. The population has been a rollar coaster, mainly going downhill, but it’s stabilized now - held steady for the past few weeks.

So, 343, this is what you have left to work with. People who were either extreme “Casuals” (I really hate that word) have moved on to the next big game, be it Black Ops II or the upcoming GOW. Many who were super competitive left due to the severe lack of that in the starting months.

What you have left are people who see that this game can be great, that love Halo. So, it’s time to strengthen what you have. Start focusing on what is repeatedly asked for here - even though this doesn’t represent all of the Halo 4 players, it represents the ones who can voice their opinion.

If something is getting four hundred page threads or dozens a day about the same topic, then you know that is something the community wants. Prioritize that - if not for Halo 4, then make sure you address it for Halo 5. Example is ranks. It’s probably not feasible to implement in Halo 4 now other than the CSR system, but think of that for Halo 5. A lot of people want the ability to flash their skill rank, and not a number.

Another would be Custom Game Options. Look what you removed, look what the players want. If it’s a defunct gametype like VIP, that’s fine - we don’t need it. But stuff like Race and Infection options are stuff that shaped great Custom Game’s - and while there are tricks to make it work, we shouldn’t be jumping hoops to do something we could do in the previous game.

I could go on, but I think you get it. What you have left is most likely what you’re going to get for Halo 4 - you won’t be seeing a large increase in players. It’s time to take what you have a grow on it - listen to the players here to improve stuff for Halo 5. Not everything we want is going to be feasible or good for the game, but there is plenty of desires that could make the next game into a great one. Things like bringing back Multi Team. Things like putting Theatre back into Campaign with the scoring. Things like bringing Halo back to the roots, with updates that you think would benefit the series.

Here’s what you have left. Don’t try and fix this game to bring back players who left. Fix this game so that people here enjoy it, and maybe then you will see players return.

food for thought.

halo 2 didnt get an update to try and fix stand by for 3 months. The title update that everyone claimed made it the greatest halo of all time (me excluded) didnt come till a year after release.

Also, just because something has several pages of posts and views does not mean it is truely needed/wanted.

half those posts could be for it
half those posts could be against it
half the posts could be 1 poster fighting for it
half the posts could be 1 poster fighting against it

Also please remember that the “minority” of halo players actually post/read on the forums.

> halo 2 didnt get an update to try and fix stand by for 3 months. The title update that everyone claimed made it the greatest halo of all time (me excluded) didnt come till a year after release.
>
> Also, just because something has several pages of posts and views does not mean it is truely needed/wanted.
>
> half those posts could be for it
> half those posts could be against it
> half the posts could be 1 poster fighting for it
> half the posts could be 1 poster fighting against it
>
>
> Also please remember that the “minority” of halo players actually post/read on the forums.

Never did I mention a title update, because it doesn’t need to be mentioned. I’m not telling 343 that the next one needs to be great. I’m saying that this set of players is what they have to work with to make Halo 4 great.

Whatever happened in the Halo 2/3 days are no concern to me. They are done and over with in terms of TU’s and such.

While that is an example, there are also examples such as the “Custom Games are Unacceptable”. A good 90% of those posts are in support, and asking 343 for changes. Jessica has said they are looking into it, and it should be a priority considering it’s popularity and desire - along with other things.

While this forum is a minority of players, it’s also the one with the most access to get their grievances out to 343. Yes, there are a lot of players who don’t come here. The thing is, their voice can’t be calculated into the problems. So, you need to see what you have here, because it’s not feasible to go into War Games and ask for opinions.

> food for thought.
>
> halo 2 didnt get an update to try and fix stand by for 3 months. The title update that everyone claimed made it the greatest halo of all time (me excluded) didnt come till a year after release.
>
> Also, just because something has several pages of posts and views does not mean it is truely needed/wanted.
>
> half those posts could be for it
> half those posts could be against it
> half the posts could be 1 poster fighting for it
> half the posts could be 1 poster fighting against it
>
>
> Also please remember that the “minority” of halo players actually post/read on the forums.

For the lord almighty and the hundred biyillionth time, Halo 2 days were different compared to Halo 4. Halo 2 was the first big Xbox live FPS to come out for Xbox live gamers around the world. For the first time we had players who played together and shared their thoughts on the strengths and weaknesses of an online FPS for the Xbox. At the time of the launch of Xbox live with Halo 2, I even remember we had “America Online,” a crappy dial-up service. Technology was different, the internet was different, and Microsoft and console developers were just learning how to structure games for online experience.

Halo 4 was fully funded and supported by Microsoft, with 343i having 3 years to work on it. I see no excuse on time, resources, or experience gap that made them develop such a shame of a beta-game.

I think that one guys definitely has a point about how Halo 2 was dealt with. We have to deal with this Halo game for three years, and we shouldn’t have to wait that long for fixes.

> Yes, there are a lot of players who don’t come here. The thing is, their voice can’t be calculated into the problems.

Actually, while their specific voices aren’t heard, their gaming habits within Halo 4 are seen. 343 is able to collect all sorts of data regarding what gametypes people play, what weapons are used, what maps are voted on, etc.

Using that data, they can surpass much of the vocal crowd here by using this hard data from the game itself, to formulate game updates, fixes, etc.

That’s something many are forgetting.

> Halo 4 was fully funded and supported by Microsoft, with 343i having 3 years to work on it. I see no excuse on time, resources, or experience gap that made them develop such a shame of a beta-game.

Actually, the bulk of 343 (as in it’s hundreds of employees) has not been around for those same three years. 343 had to be built from scratch. Even with the talented pool of developers, producers, etc., it still takes time to build that team into a cohesive unit that understands not only the goal (the game itself), but also the processes and procedures of how to get there.

Each development company has their own guidelines and procedures by which they produce a game. So getting all of these folks from all over the video game development world to work as one took time too.

Given all of this, I think it’s quite amazing that 343 has not only been able to put out a Halo game, but one with such visual and audio quality. Halo 4 is a very good game. Frank O’Conner has already stated to the effect that they (343) have learned a lot of lessons along the way while creating Halo 4. Those things deemed a mistake will most certainly be righted in Halo 5.

The problem is that the majority of the vocal fanbase doesn’t want to wait for that. I get that, really. However, we’re also so very hard to please. If one portion of the game is change in one manner, some fans will cheer while others will complain.

The battle between casual and competitive players is one such case. In that way, 343 can’t win. They please some while ticking off others.

The fact is, Halo 4 is a very playable game. Halo from game to game evolves in gameplay. Reach brought us a bigger jump that previous titles. Halo 4 made an even bigger jump that that. It’s up to the gamer if they like those changes or not. Make your voices heard yes, but really do it respectfully. Do you (general you, not anyone in particular) think any business would listen to people who are disrespectful to them, even if those complaints are valid? It’s tantamount to being hollered at. Be respectful in tone, not just to 343 but your fellow forum members and maybe, just maybe you’ll see more happen in the direction you want, or at least more discussion on the matter.

In the meantime, 343 is still going to collect that hard data generated by gameplay from ALL players and tailor that gameplay to the majority. That makes sense, even if it isn’t agreeable to the vocal minority.

Respectfully,
HFFL

The OP has not gone far enough…

I may be one of the bigger fans of this game, since the series launched, but i know when something needs to be changed.

Sure, we need to recognise the casuals and the competitive…

We needed a ranked playlist… but not like we’re used to. I call for a ranked Infinity styled playlist. Now YES we need work done on Ordnance and other settings but to be honest, this is the new Halo… Like the OP said, what we have left are the true fanbase and the vocal minority (also fans) so lets make this game what it could be.

Halo created competitive play for console based FPS even though games like Quake were doing it before hand…
Now lets redesign it.

> food for thought.
>
> halo 2 didnt get an update to try and fix stand by for 3 months. The title update that everyone claimed made it the greatest halo of all time (me excluded) didnt come till a year after release.
>
> Also, just because something has several pages of posts and views does not mean it is truely needed/wanted.
>
> half those posts could be for it
> half those posts could be against it
> half the posts could be 1 poster fighting for it
> half the posts could be 1 poster fighting against it
>
>
> Also please remember that the “minority” of halo players actually post/read on the forums.

That’s not food for thought, that just foolish talk and I hate when people bring this nonsense up.

Comparing 2004 and one of the first fps online experiences in the console industry to 2012/13 where we have already perfected patches for all kinds of games in consoles.

Comparing the first Halo online experience where they were still experimenting and didn’t know what could make Halo great to the fourth online experience where the Halo franchise has already being settled and everyone agrees to what they expect the Halo multiplayer to be. They could even study Halo Reach and learn from what everyone hated in that game and not do it again but instead they decided to do the same.

Stop comparing 2004 to 2012

> > food for thought.
> >
> > halo 2 didnt get an update to try and fix stand by for 3 months. The title update that everyone claimed made it the greatest halo of all time (me excluded) didnt come till a year after release.
> >
> > Also, just because something has several pages of posts and views does not mean it is truely needed/wanted.
> >
> > half those posts could be for it
> > half those posts could be against it
> > half the posts could be 1 poster fighting for it
> > half the posts could be 1 poster fighting against it
> >
> >
> > Also please remember that the “minority” of halo players actually post/read on the forums.
>
> That’s not food for thought, that just foolish talk and I hate when people bring this nonsense up.
>
> Comparing 2004 and one of the first fps online experiences in the console industry to 2012/13 where we have already perfected patches for all kinds of games in consoles.
>
> Comparing the first Halo online experience where they were still experimenting and didn’t know what could make Halo great to the fourth online experience where the Halo franchise has already being settled and everyone agrees to what they expect the Halo multiplayer to be. They could even study Halo Reach and learn from what everyone hated in that game and not do it again but instead they decided to do the same.
>
> Stop comparing 2004 to 2012

Back in 2004, Title Updates were much cheaper and easier with just how the games were. Now, Title Updates cost a crap ton of money and require more time due to more complex programming required in this day and age. And Bungie still knew what made a good Halo game back then was competitiveness. Halo 1 was a good competitive game (excluding it’s pistol) and so were many other arena shooters. Halo 2 had no excuse to be so broken and unbalanced. Hell, Halo 2 pre-patch was worse than Halo 4 & Halo Reach. It was just so dull and broken. Even post-patch had it’s fair share of problems (button glitches and super bounce).

> > > food for thought.
> > >
> > > halo 2 didnt get an update to try and fix stand by for 3 months. The title update that everyone claimed made it the greatest halo of all time (me excluded) didnt come till a year after release.
> > >
> > > Also, just because something has several pages of posts and views does not mean it is truely needed/wanted.
> > >
> > > half those posts could be for it
> > > half those posts could be against it
> > > half the posts could be 1 poster fighting for it
> > > half the posts could be 1 poster fighting against it
> > >
> > >
> > > Also please remember that the “minority” of halo players actually post/read on the forums.
> >
> > That’s not food for thought, that just foolish talk and I hate when people bring this nonsense up.
> >
> > Comparing 2004 and one of the first fps online experiences in the console industry to 2012/13 where we have already perfected patches for all kinds of games in consoles.
> >
> > Comparing the first Halo online experience where they were still experimenting and didn’t know what could make Halo great to the fourth online experience where the Halo franchise has already being settled and everyone agrees to what they expect the Halo multiplayer to be. They could even study Halo Reach and learn from what everyone hated in that game and not do it again but instead they decided to do the same.
> >
> > Stop comparing 2004 to 2012
>
> Back in 2004, Title Updates were much cheaper and easier with just how the games were. Now, Title Updates cost a crap ton of money and require more time due to more complex programming required in this day and age. And Bungie still knew what made a good Halo game back then was competitiveness. Halo 1 was a good competitive game (excluding it’s pistol) and so were many other arena shooters. Halo 2 had no excuse to be so broken and unbalanced. Hell, Halo 2 pre-patch was worse than Halo 4 & Halo Reach. It was just so dull and broken. Even post-patch had it’s fair share of problems (button glitches and super bounce).

  1. You are talking about pc patches, not console patches, there was no experience with that.
  2. Absolutely nothing was easier 9 years ago with -Yoink- hardware and little to no experience to online console gaming.
  3. They had almost no experience with online console games back then. Of course their first try was gonna be bad, they didn’t have 8 years of feedback like 343 did. 343 may be a new company but it’s members are definitely not new to the gaming industry.

The fans are here (on these forums) and have stated their issues with the game. Now it’s time for 343i to take what has been said and decide what to do from there.

> The OP has not gone far enough…
>
> I may be one of the bigger fans of this game, since the series launched, but i know when something needs to be changed.
>
> Sure, we need to recognise the casuals and the competitive…
>
> We needed a ranked playlist… but not like we’re used to. I call for a ranked Infinity styled playlist. Now YES we need work done on Ordnance and other settings but to be honest, this is the new Halo… Like the OP said, what we have left are the true fanbase and the vocal minority (also fans) so lets make this game what it could be.
>
> Halo created competitive play for console based FPS even though games like Quake were doing it before hand…
> Now lets redesign it.

Agreed. Infinity could be the Ranked playlists. Then make Reach-esque style gametypes with pre-loaded Loadouts like Team Throwdown has ACROSS THE BOARD.

I don’t think Team TD should be the only one to have it. And the fact Throwdown has an AA gametype makes me furious when it gets voted. What’s the point of us playing this playlist, if you’re gonna have a GT with AAs in it?

You need to do something quick about your playlists soon. Or the population will vanish…

Like Classic BTB/Classic Slayer. BTB Objective. ETC! listen to your community.

I love your making Extraction its own playlist. Thats got me really excited tomorrow TBH. I didnt know it existed on launch til a friend showed me it.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER IMPORTANT matters. We need playlists that make this game actually FEEL like Halo. And NOT COD.

> > Yes, there are a lot of players who don’t come here. The thing is, their voice can’t be calculated into the problems.
>
> Actually, while their specific voices aren’t heard, their gaming habits within Halo 4 are seen. 343 is able to collect all sorts of data regarding what gametypes people play, what weapons are used, what maps are voted on, etc.
>
> Using that data, they can surpass much of the vocal crowd here by using this hard data from the game itself, to formulate game updates, fixes, etc.
>
> That’s something many are forgetting.

The problem is, in game stats doesn’t have a voice. While it can show details like frequently played game types, most used weapons, ignored playlists, etc.,it can;t show things that players want that are out of the game.

How does this show that players would want ranks? Unless you only consider those who are in Throwback, but that doesn’t say “Hey. These players want visible ranks.” It doesn’t show what Custom Game options they want, cause you can’t use them. So on and so forth.

Yes, I know I keep coming back to ranks and CGO, because those are the features I’ve seen extreme support from here on the forums, with frequent requests.

> > > > food for thought.
> > > >
> > > > halo 2 didnt get an update to try and fix stand by for 3 months. The title update that everyone claimed made it the greatest halo of all time (me excluded) didnt come till a year after release.
> > > >
> > > > Also, just because something has several pages of posts and views does not mean it is truely needed/wanted.
> > > >
> > > > half those posts could be for it
> > > > half those posts could be against it
> > > > half the posts could be 1 poster fighting for it
> > > > half the posts could be 1 poster fighting against it
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Also please remember that the “minority” of halo players actually post/read on the forums.
> > >
> > > That’s not food for thought, that just foolish talk and I hate when people bring this nonsense up.
> > >
> > > Comparing 2004 and one of the first fps online experiences in the console industry to 2012/13 where we have already perfected patches for all kinds of games in consoles.
> > >
> > > Comparing the first Halo online experience where they were still experimenting and didn’t know what could make Halo great to the fourth online experience where the Halo franchise has already being settled and everyone agrees to what they expect the Halo multiplayer to be. They could even study Halo Reach and learn from what everyone hated in that game and not do it again but instead they decided to do the same.
> > >
> > > Stop comparing 2004 to 2012
> >
> > Back in 2004, Title Updates were much cheaper and easier with just how the games were. Now, Title Updates cost a crap ton of money and require more time due to more complex programming required in this day and age. And Bungie still knew what made a good Halo game back then was competitiveness. Halo 1 was a good competitive game (excluding it’s pistol) and so were many other arena shooters. Halo 2 had no excuse to be so broken and unbalanced. Hell, Halo 2 pre-patch was worse than Halo 4 & Halo Reach. It was just so dull and broken. Even post-patch had it’s fair share of problems (button glitches and super bounce).
>
> 1. You are talking about pc patches, not console patches, there was no experience with that.
> 2. Absolutely nothing was easier 9 years ago with -Yoink!- hardware and little to no experience to online console gaming.
> 3. They had almost no experience with online console games back then. Of course their first try was gonna be bad, they didn’t have 8 years of feedback like 343 did. 343 may be a new company but it’s members are definitely not new to the gaming industry.

I don’t think there are many game developers that would be almost fully comprised of “noobs”, not very smart. Bungie was also made up of experienced programmers but they still made critical errors that everyone moaned and complained about. This happens to the best of us no matter how good or bad each individual member is. I don’t think number 3 is a completely valid argument since you have no history or data about each person in their company.

> I don’t think there are many game developers that would be almost fully comprised of “noobs”, not very smart. Bungie was also made up of experienced programmers but they still made critical errors that everyone moaned and complained about.

Thing is, Halo 4 had been in the works for roughly 3 and a half years. They had people coming from numerous AAA studio’s, who have had tons of experience with games. They have a huge budget to create and test the game, with the entirety of Microsoft Game Studio’s behind them.

Though, that is neither here nor there. It’s done with, we just need to look ahead.