343 has trashed what it means to be a spartan

Spartans in Halo 1-3: Chief
Spartans in Reach-5: Carter, Catherine, Jun, Emile, Jorge, Noble 6, Fireteam Majestic (not gonna look up their names), Fireteam Crimson (again, no), Palmer, Locke, Buck, Tanaka, Vale, Kelly, Linda, Fred. Chief

Do you see how this a problem? It’s overload. Back in the original trilogy days spartans were mythical status. It was just one augmented super soldier saving the human race; the sole remnant of a cruel and unforgiving program created only to one day lay down his life for humanity.
Now it seems like there’s a spartan factory somewhere spitting them out like it’s nothing. They no longer have that mythic status. By the time H5 came around, they may as well just be ODST’s.
I’m aware that more spartans have always been around in the expanded fiction. But in book form, they can live up to that spartan legacy and still be legendary super-soldiers. They can’t all be like that in a 5-6 hour linear campaign.

Disclaimer: I’m not a 343 basher, I just want Chief to rise back up to that level he was at in H1-3. He doesn’t even feel like the Chief in H5. Half his dialogue feels like it’s a completely different person than the from the og trilogy (and in a badly written way).

Spartans have been in EU since H:CE days.

Master Chief was not the last Spartan.

He wasn’t even the last Spartan-II, either. The others survived from the lore (That thing that Bungie would forget whenever it screwed with their goals)

It makes perfect and logical sense for the UNSC to want to create more, as well. Considering how well they have worked up to this point.

Also, Bungie did Reach. I figured the logo upon launching the game would have given that away, as well as the logo on the cover.

I’m no expert in lore at all so I may be wrong but If i understand what you are saying correctly then yes, there is a “spartan factory” spitting them out. Spartan 4’s are simply put as expert soldiers. While a spartan 2 like master chief is augmented and on a different level of skill than spartan 4. Basically unsc produces quantity over quality now. Where before it was the opposite.

any lore experts out there please correct me if i am wrong, but this is what i am remembering as of right now.

I like how you use Reach to bash 343’s treatment of spartans.

> 2533274804212283;4:
> I’m no expert in lore at all so I may be wrong but If i understand what you are saying correctly then yes, there is a “spartan factory” spitting them out. Spartan 4’s are simply put as expert soldiers. While a spartan 2 like master chief is augmented and on a different level of skill than spartan 4. Basically unsc produces quantity over quality now. Where before it was the opposite.
>
> any lore experts out there please correct me if i am wrong, but this is what i am remembering as of right now.

Both classes of Spartans (III included) went through augmentation.

343 has said on quite a few occasions that GEN1 (H1-H:R) Spartans-IIs are on par with Sparan-IVs with GEN2 armor. (I suppose it’s different if both were wearing GEN2) The difference between them is the mentality, IIs were kidnapped early on and trained solely for combat and strategy. IVs are more like ODSTs and Marines who volunteer.

Spartan-IIIs were the only ones that were notably inferior, and were seen as disposable by ONI.

If you’re only gonna read the first few paragraphs, get triggered, and give a dumb response, stop right now and finish reading.

Please comprehend that I’m talking about the GAMES and not the expanded universe. There is room in books for that many spartans. When you start throwing that many into games with 5-6 hour campaigns, you cannot give them the depth they require to be good characters.

> 2533274826920712;6:
> > 2533274804212283;4:
> > I’m no expert in lore at all so I may be wrong but If i understand what you are saying correctly then yes, there is a “spartan factory” spitting them out. Spartan 4’s are simply put as expert soldiers. While a spartan 2 like master chief is augmented and on a different level of skill than spartan 4. Basically unsc produces quantity over quality now. Where before it was the opposite.
> >
> > any lore experts out there please correct me if i am wrong, but this is what i am remembering as of right now.
>
>
> Both classes of Spartans (III included) went through augmentation.
>
> 343 has said on quite a few occasions that GEN1 (H1-H:R) Spartans-IIs are on par with Sparan-IVs with GEN2 armor. (I suppose it’s different if both were wearing GEN2) The difference between them is the mentality, IIs were kidnapped and trained solely for combat and strategy. IVs are more like ODSTs and Marines who volunteer.
>
> Spartan-IIIs were the only ones that were notably inferior, and were seen as disposable by ONI.

when i mean not augmented and mass produced i mean spartan 4, as they are much more common than spartan 4 right? again, not a lore expert so bare with me lol.

> 2533274964189700;5:
> I like how you use Reach to bash 343’s treatment of spartans.

You gonna sit there and act like if I didn’t include Noble Team, the amount of spartans on that list wouldn’t be ludicrous?

It’s hard to even bother replying when you don’t even take the time to learn the lore…but Spartans have always been around and its a natural evolution that the technology make Spartans more attainable

> 2533274826920712;3:
> Master Chief was not the last Spartan.
>
> He wasn’t even the last Spartan-II, either. The others survived from the lore (That thing that Bungie would forget whenever it screwed with their goals)
>
> It makes perfect and logical sense for the UNSC to want to create more, as well. Considering how well they have worked up to this point.
>
> Also, Bungie did Reach. I figured the logo upon launching the game would have given that away, as well as the logo on the cover.

No crap Bungie did Reach. Bungie kicked the spartan factory off, but still did a much better job of making Noble Team a group of interesting characters. They contributed to the overall problem so included Reach on the list. 343 is 0/16 in creating another spartan worth caring about that’s not Chief

> 2533274856274009;7:
> Please comprehend that I’m talking about the GAMES and not the expanded universe. There is room in books for that many spartans. When you start throwing that many into games with 5-6 hour campaigns, you cannot give them the depth they require to be good characters.

Hah! Except there is more character development/exploration in 5 alone than there is in 1-3 for John pretty much.

> 2533274859436467;10:
> It’s hard to even bother replying when you don’t even take the time to learn the lore…but Spartans have always been around and its a natural evolution that the technology make Spartans more attainable

It’s hard to respond to you when I specifically say in the original post that I’m aware more spartans exist in the expanded universe. My problem is shoving so many into the games that they’ve basically just become replacements for ODST’s

> 2533274809220485;12:
> > 2533274856274009;7:
> > Please comprehend that I’m talking about the GAMES and not the expanded universe. There is room in books for that many spartans. When you start throwing that many into games with 5-6 hour campaigns, you cannot give them the depth they require to be good characters.
>
>
> Hah! Except there is more character development/exploration in 5 alone than there is in 1-3 for John pretty much.

Not really. If you said H4 I’d agree. John starts to question his humanity and has to cope with losing arguably his closest friend. What happens in H5? Find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, i found cortana, thanks for saving me Locke, the end

> 2533274856274009;14:
> Not really. If you said H4 I’d agree. John starts to question his humanity and has to cope with losing arguably his closest friend. What happens in H5? Find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, i found cortana, thanks for saving me Locke, the end

H2 chief
Defend mac gun, chase prophet, chase prophet, chase prophet, kil prophet, chase other propthet, chase other propthet, chase other propthet, the end

H3 chief
Get to base, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, kill that 2nd prophet, find cortana, activate halo, the end.

Also the only real time chief felt like some mythic hero in a game was a comment from a blind marine in h5. CE marines liked to crack jokes beyond an occasional “woah, a mark V!”. h2 didn’t really give him any accolades beyond a medal, which johnson and miranda also got.

> 2533274964189700;15:
> > 2533274856274009;14:
> > Not really. If you said H4 I’d agree. John starts to question his humanity and has to cope with losing arguably his closest friend. What happens in H5? Find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, find cortana, i found cortana, thanks for saving me Locke, the end
>
>
> H2 chief
> Defend mac gun, chase prophet, chase prophet, chase prophet, kil prophet, chase other propthet, chase other propthet, chase other propthet, the end
>
> H3 chief
> Get to base, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, chase same other prophet, kill that 2nd prophet, find cortana, activate halo, the end.
>
> Also the only real time chief felt like some mythic hero in a game was a comment from a blind marine in h5. CE marines liked to crack jokes beyond an occasional “woah, a mark V!”. h2 didn’t really give him any accolades beyond a medal, which johnson and miranda also got.

So your defense to your original statement that H5 (a game where Chief was in 3 missions) had more character development than H1-3, where Chief quite literally builds the bond with Cortana that made H4’s ending so sad… Is pretty much nothing? You can claim that the Chief had no development in H1-3 all you want, they are objectively 100x better stories than anything H5 brings to the table. Also, claiming there was no development in H1-3 still does not do anything to solidify your fallacy that Chief actually grew as a character in H5…

The character development in the first three games are a laugh. All Chief ever does is shoot things, say a sentence every now and then, and push buttons.

At this point, Locke has almost as much character development as Chief, only counting the games.

Litrally the first thing that pops up when you google Master Chief

When the Spartans were eight years old, they were sent on a training mission in which they were dropped over a forest located deep in one of Reach’s snow-filled mountain ranges and expected to get safely to their extraction Pelican dropship. The children also had instructions to leave the last child arriving behind lest they receive painful punishment; John-117 knew, however, that he could not do that. After telling the Spartans where to meet, the Spartans looked to him as their leader, a role he was initially surprised to receive but eventually accepted. When the group came upon the Pelican, it was guarded by armed men. Those men were actually UNSC Marines but were not in uniform; the Spartans therefore mistook them for a hostile threat. John showed early acumen in critical thinking and tactics, not wishing to take for granted that guards would be friendly toward them. He came up with a plan to take the men down, capture the dropship, and ensure the safe extraction of every team member, as he made sure he was the last person aboard. To do so he ended up hijacking the dropship with the help of Déjà and beat down the men with stones, causing severe injuries among the Marines. Chief Mendez was visibly displeased by John’s having attacked his Marines and leaving no-one behind, but both Mendez and Halsey recognized John’s initiative and promoted him to squad leader. Thereafter, despite other Spartans’ rising in rank and at least a couple rising to lead their own teams, he remained the de factoleader of the Spartans as a whole.
John’s leadership skills were correctly observed: the result from their mission clearly solidified his role as the overall leader of the SPARTAN-IIs. He also became the established leader of the SPARTAN-II Blue Team.

At the age of fourteen, John underwent the dangerous SPARTAN-II augmentation procedures. These procedures killed 30 and physically disabled 12 of the Spartan trainees. John was one of 33 Spartans who survived the process unscathed, while the rest who could still operate were moved to positions in the Office of Naval Intelligence. At only fourteen years old, John was said to have the body of an eighteen-year old Olympic athlete; the augmentation process hastened their reflexes, increased their strength, enhanced their eyesight, and rendered their bones nearly unbreakable. After their augmentation procedures, John and the other Spartans were transferred to the Atlas in order to recover in a microgravity environment. Four ODSTs confronted John during his first visit to the Atlas’ gym; their sergeant then ordered the five of them into the boxing ring. In the ensuing fight, John killed two of the ODSTs, and left the others severely injured, an incident which quickly blossomed into major resentment for the whole SPARTAN program throughout the Marine Corps. According to Major Antonio Silva, “people who invented John” orchestrated this incident in order to test the Spartans’ augmentations.[12]

So John 117 has always been part of the blue team, logic would lead one to believe if there’s a blue team there would be other teams. 343 has done nothing but stuck to halo lore…

> 2533274805280935;18:
> Litrally the first thing that pops up when you google Master Chief
>
> When the Spartans were eight years old, they were sent on a training mission in which they were dropped over a forest located deep in one of Reach’s snow-filled mountain ranges and expected to get safely to their extraction Pelican dropship. The children also had instructions to leave the last child arriving behind lest they receive painful punishment; John-117 knew, however, that he could not do that. After telling the Spartans where to meet, the Spartans looked to him as their leader, a role he was initially surprised to receive but eventually accepted. When the group came upon the Pelican, it was guarded by armed men. Those men were actually UNSC Marines but were not in uniform; the Spartans therefore mistook them for a hostile threat. John showed early acumen in critical thinking and tactics, not wishing to take for granted that guards would be friendly toward them. He came up with a plan to take the men down, capture the dropship, and ensure the safe extraction of every team member, as he made sure he was the last person aboard. To do so he ended up hijacking the dropship with the help of Déjà and beat down the men with stones, causing severe injuries among the Marines. Chief Mendez was visibly displeased by John’s having attacked his Marines and leaving no-one behind, but both Mendez and Halsey recognized John’s initiative and promoted him to squad leader. Thereafter, despite other Spartans’ rising in rank and at least a couple rising to lead their own teams, he remained the de factoleader of the Spartans as a whole.
> John’s leadership skills were correctly observed: the result from their mission clearly solidified his role as the overall leader of the SPARTAN-IIs. He also became the established leader of the SPARTAN-II Blue Team.
>
> At the age of fourteen, John underwent the dangerous SPARTAN-II augmentation procedures. These procedures killed 30 and physically disabled 12 of the Spartan trainees. John was one of 33 Spartans who survived the process unscathed, while the rest who could still operate were moved to positions in the Office of Naval Intelligence. At only fourteen years old, John was said to have the body of an eighteen-year old Olympic athlete; the augmentation process hastened their reflexes, increased their strength, enhanced their eyesight, and rendered their bones nearly unbreakable. After their augmentation procedures, John and the other Spartans were transferred to the Atlas in order to recover in a microgravity environment. Four ODSTs confronted John during his first visit to the Atlas’ gym; their sergeant then ordered the five of them into the boxing ring. In the ensuing fight, John killed two of the ODSTs, and left the others severely injured, an incident which quickly blossomed into major resentment for the whole SPARTAN program throughout the Marine Corps. According to Major Antonio Silva, “people who invented John” orchestrated this incident in order to test the Spartans’ augmentations.[12]
>
> So John 117 has always been part of the blue team, logic would lead one to believe if there’s a blue team there would be other teams. 343 has done nothing but stuck to halo lore…

Congratulations on wasting time to explain the expanded fiction to someone who knows and acknowledges they knew the expanded fiction in the original post

> 2533274856274009;16:
> So your defense to your original statement that H5 (a game where Chief was in 3 missions) had more character development than H1-3, where Chief quite literally builds the bond with Cortana that made H4’s ending so sad… Is pretty much nothing?

I dont remember making that statement, try a different poster.

I’m just pointing out his character in 2 and 3 were pretty much the same as h5’s tbh. Honestly I probably wouldn’t have cared as much about cortana’s death if we had halo 1-3 chief’s acting and portrayal. He’d have mostly just been riding on nastalgia.

> 2533274856274009;16:
> You can claim that the Chief had no development in H1-3 all you want, they are objectively 100x better stories than anything H5 brings to the table.

Objective hyperbole. Though to be honest, i’m not even argueing halo 5’s story was good. I haven’t even bought the darn game due to already seeing how bad it is. But number of spartans isn’t the issue.

> 2533274856274009;16:
> Also, claiming there was no development in H1-3 still does not do anything to solidify your fallacy that Chief actually grew as a character in H5…

Yes, how dare I say that…oh right, I didn’t.