343 can we please see a fix for this in Infinite

With the recent reveal it seems that the Chopper should be making it’s way back into the sandbox, can 343 please be aware that certain design of AI allows for exploits. I’m referring to AI that can be taken out from a far quite easily with weapons from your vehicle because AI is simply unable to retaliate. In Halo3 for example just prior to receiving tanks on the Ark, you emerge from the cave with the Chopper or in fact Warthog even and are able to reign death on the whole area without any retaliation other than possibly the occasional Wraith shot to dodge. I get that there’s a reason why these things are scripted this way but encounters like this become a joke when all you have to do is bombard the whole area while in the same fixed position, all the while enemy simply moves a few feet as some form defensive tactic and doesn’t fire back. I don’t have to stay glued to this same spot of course but in a real life experience where I have unlimited ammo to begin with, I’m hardly going to choose a more dangerous route where enemy decides to shoot back

Just in general this aspect to AI is broken and can be exploited with various vehicles fitted with weapons. And especially with Infinite now there will I’m sure often be distanced AI with which to exploit this way. It’s not fun doing this and hopefully 343 has already realised it needs to address the behaviour so that enemy AI retaliation offers more than to simply move about the same spot without firing. Take a look at Hunters as another example on Reach which also disengage fire when just slightly too far from you and make for an absurdly easy fight from afar in most of the vehicles available. Again understandable given why these things were done I guess but it really doesn’t work in a realistic way and spoils the illusion any encounter may have had up to that point. It’s a design flaw that could have been addressed by Bungie in some way and it amazes me playtesting never brought it up as a potential element of design change

With the fairly recent AI update video from 343 it seems they are wanting to advance the behaviour somewhat so it would be a shame if they didn’t look to address this

That seems like more of a level design problem. If you don’t want your players sniping everything from an overlook of the entire area, don’t put those kinds of overlooks in the game.

> 2535449076192416;2:
> That seems like more of a level design problem. If you don’t want your players sniping everything from an overlook of the entire area, don’t put those kinds of overlooks in the game.

> 2533274792569152;1:
> With the recent reveal it seems that the Chopper should be making it’s way back into the sandbox, can 343 please be aware that certain design of AI allows for exploits. I’m referring to AI that can be taken out from a far quite easily with weapons from your vehicle because AI is simply unable to retaliate. In Halo3 for example just prior to receiving tanks on the Ark, you emerge from the cave with the Chopper or in fact Warthog even and are able to reign death on the whole area without any retaliation other than possibly the occasional Wraith shot to dodge. I get that there’s a reason why these things are scripted this way but encounters like this become a joke when all you have to do is bombard the whole area while in the same fixed position, all the while enemy simply moves a few feet as some form defensive tactic and doesn’t fire back. I don’t have to stay glued to this same spot of course but in a real life experience where I have unlimited ammo to begin with, I’m hardly going to choose a more dangerous route where enemy decides to shoot back
>
> Just in general this aspect to AI is broken and can be exploited with various vehicles fitted with weapons. And especially with Infinite now there will I’m sure often be distanced AI with which to exploit this way. It’s not fun doing this and hopefully 343 has already realised it needs to address the behaviour so that enemy AI retaliation offers more than to simply move about the same spot without firing. Take a look at Hunters as another example on Reach which also disengage fire when just slightly too far from you and make for an absurdly easy fight from afar in most of the vehicles available. Again understandable given why these things were done I guess but it really doesn’t work in a realistic way and spoils the illusion any encounter may have had up to that point. It’s a design flaw that could have been addressed by Bungie in some way and it amazes me playtesting never brought it up as a potential element of design change
>
> With the fairly recent AI update video from 343 it seems they are wanting to advance the behaviour somewhat so it would be a shame if they didn’t look to address this

The problem is with open world and even semi open world (like infinite) games you’re always going to have those areas where you have overlooks of certain areas and everything going on. This is completely fine to an extent, but I like it when games don’t have one area that can overlook the entire map. Obviously, after a certain distance characters don’t even render in, but on a good pc that actually ends up being a pretty long distance. I would say that if infinite has certain areas set up for snipers, fine. It’s semi open world with lots of elevation as far as we’ve seem and it’s hard to expect that that won’t be a thing. But what I definitely don’t want is to be able to clear out half or more of a level from one area using a sniper or vehicle. Assuming that AI is better than ever before in Infinite, maybe it’s possible that they will have the ability to detect a player over longer distances depending on what it is that you are doing. For example, if you’re walking along a ridge with a sniper being as quiet as possible, they won’t notice you until you open fire. But if you drive/fly in, guns ablazing in a tank, banshee, or warthog, they’ll focus fire on you, maybe even before you begin shooting since they would hear the vehicle from a distance. I think this is something that won’t completely ruin the game if it is a thing, but I hope 343 can make the AI be able to fight back in effective ways during long range engagements instead of you just being able to pick them off easily from a distance with no retaliation or risk of doing so.

If 343 doesn’t have the time to make level design accommodate for player and AI encounters to the problem you mentioned perhaps vehicle s damage drop off would be a solution? Damage drop off would make sniping AI from an outlook more tedious or even outright useless, incentivizing the player to not try an exploit the AI.

Or you can have Enigma solution where AI is effective in long ranged engagements.

> 2533274977144832;3:
> > 2535449076192416;2:
> > That seems like more of a level design problem. If you don’t want your players sniping everything from an overlook of the entire area, don’t put those kinds of overlooks in the game.
>
>
>
> > 2533274792569152;1:
> > With the recent reveal it seems that the Chopper should be making it’s way back into the sandbox, can 343 please be aware that certain design of AI allows for exploits. I’m referring to AI that can be taken out from a far quite easily with weapons from your vehicle because AI is simply unable to retaliate. In Halo3 for example just prior to receiving tanks on the Ark, you emerge from the cave with the Chopper or in fact Warthog even and are able to reign death on the whole area without any retaliation other than possibly the occasional Wraith shot to dodge. I get that there’s a reason why these things are scripted this way but encounters like this become a joke when all you have to do is bombard the whole area while in the same fixed position, all the while enemy simply moves a few feet as some form defensive tactic and doesn’t fire back. I don’t have to stay glued to this same spot of course but in a real life experience where I have unlimited ammo to begin with, I’m hardly going to choose a more dangerous route where enemy decides to shoot back
> >
> > Just in general this aspect to AI is broken and can be exploited with various vehicles fitted with weapons. And especially with Infinite now there will I’m sure often be distanced AI with which to exploit this way. It’s not fun doing this and hopefully 343 has already realised it needs to address the behaviour so that enemy AI retaliation offers more than to simply move about the same spot without firing. Take a look at Hunters as another example on Reach which also disengage fire when just slightly too far from you and make for an absurdly easy fight from afar in most of the vehicles available. Again understandable given why these things were done I guess but it really doesn’t work in a realistic way and spoils the illusion any encounter may have had up to that point. It’s a design flaw that could have been addressed by Bungie in some way and it amazes me playtesting never brought it up as a potential element of design change
> >
> > With the fairly recent AI update video from 343 it seems they are wanting to advance the behaviour somewhat so it would be a shame if they didn’t look to address this
>
> The problem is with open world and even semi open world (like infinite) games you’re always going to have those areas where you have overlooks of certain areas and everything going on. This is completely fine to an extent, but I like it when games don’t have one area that can overlook the entire map. Obviously, after a certain distance characters don’t even render in, but on a good pc that actually ends up being a pretty long distance. I would say that if infinite has certain areas set up for snipers, fine. It’s semi open world with lots of elevation as far as we’ve seem and it’s hard to expect that that won’t be a thing. But what I definitely don’t want is to be able to clear out half or more of a level from one area using a sniper or vehicle. Assuming that AI is better than ever before in Infinite, maybe it’s possible that they will have the ability to detect a player over longer distances depending on what it is that you are doing. For example, if you’re walking along a ridge with a sniper being as quiet as possible, they won’t notice you until you open fire. But if you drive/fly in, guns ablazing in a tank, banshee, or warthog, they’ll focus fire on you, maybe even before you begin shooting since they would hear the vehicle from a distance. I think this is something that won’t completely ruin the game if it is a thing, but I hope 343 can make the AI be able to fight back in effective ways during long range engagements instead of you just being able to pick them off easily from a distance with no retaliation or risk of doing so.

> 2535453408431289;4:
> If 343 doesn’t have the time to make level design accommodate for player and AI encounters to the problem you mentioned perhaps vehicle s damage drop off would be a solution? Damage drop off would make sniping AI from an outlook more tedious or even outright useless, incentivizing the player to not try an exploit the AI.
>
> Or you can have Enigma solution where AI is effective in long ranged engagements.

yeah interesting ideas. I get the feeling they’ll be some focus from 343 on finding a solution on this.

I found that even though it took quite a while longer sometimes and wasn’t as much fun, my staying in the same spot was always something I did because I knew I wasn’t in any danger. Acquiring a Revenant and taking out the Hunters on the second spire part for example is slow and boring especially with Mythic skull but the fact I can very easily exploit the Hunter’s oh so brilliant strategy of refusing to retaliate and slowly shuffling left and then right a bit, it’s a solution people will continue to do. So with that said I wonder in a drop off in damage would deter this approach from players. A complete drop off would obviously from real far off stuff

yeah I mean it’s definitely not as easy as asking them to simply fix such things but I do hope they put some thought into how this better serves the experience for players

anyway thanks for your responses

Xbox One came out over seven years ago. I hate the fact Infinite will need to confine itself to this era of technology. While the Series X GPU may improve graphic fidelity, the CPU handles things like physics and AI. This will be limited by the launch Xbox one. Halo Infinite will suffer because it has to cater to old tech.

> 2533274791998460;6:
> Xbox One came out over seven years ago. I hate the fact Infinite will need to confine itself to this era of technology. While the Series X GPU may improve graphic fidelity, the CPU handles things like physics and AI. This will be limited by the launch Xbox one. Halo Infinite will suffer because it has to cater to old tech.

yeah it’s definitely a shame considering how much potential now

> 2533274791998460;6:
> Xbox One came out over seven years ago. I hate the fact Infinite will need to confine itself to this era of technology. While the Series X GPU may improve graphic fidelity, the CPU handles things like physics and AI. This will be limited by the launch Xbox one. Halo Infinite will suffer because it has to cater to old tech.

I know this isn’t the best comparison to make, but after seeing Horizon Forbidden West gameplay and knowing it’s on PS4, maybe Halo Infinite on the Xbox One isn’t too much of a drag as we fear. I mean that game looks next gen. So maybe Halo can as well.

That being said, I really hope the E3 gameplay demo blows us all away.

> 2533274791998460;6:
> Xbox One came out over seven years ago. I hate the fact Infinite will need to confine itself to this era of technology. While the Series X GPU may improve graphic fidelity, the CPU handles things like physics and AI. This will be limited by the launch Xbox one. Halo Infinite will suffer because it has to cater to old tech.

I’m not sure Infinite is really confining itself to this era.

The new hardware is great… but the APIs are very immature (rudimentary ray tracing has only just been added)… and it takes at least two, if not three, generations of games before a new console starts to shine.

I wonder if Infinite is really holding back that much at the moment. After all Slipspace has essentially been built on the current hardware. Sure it will have been built with scaling in mind (given 343 has close ties with the console makers).

Infinite is a ten year project and it won’t be long before it drifts away from the older hardware. But first up we need the population of players (millions who are still on their Xbones) Especially given the scarcity of new consoles across the market.

> 2533274949216347;8:
> > 2533274791998460;6:
> > Xbox One came out over seven years ago. I hate the fact Infinite will need to confine itself to this era of technology. While the Series X GPU may improve graphic fidelity, the CPU handles things like physics and AI. This will be limited by the launch Xbox one. Halo Infinite will suffer because it has to cater to old tech.
>
> I know this isn’t the best comparison to make, but after seeing Horizon Forbidden West gameplay and knowing it’s on PS4, maybe Halo Infinite on the Xbox One isn’t too much of a drag as we fear. I mean that game looks next gen. So maybe Halo can as well.
>
> That being said, I really hope the E3 gameplay demo blows us all away.

Horizon looks great, but this is about progression of gaming. Everyone seems to be focused on frame rate and resolution. But does this really make a better game? The current question is about AI. This will not be solved by more teraflops on the graphics card. I don’t know the answer, but as gamers, and as paying customers, we should demand better.

> 2533274791998460;10:
> > 2533274949216347;8:
> > > 2533274791998460;6:
> > >
>
> Horizon looks great, but this is about progression of gaming. Everyone seems to be focused on frame rate and resolution. But does this really make a better game? The current question is about AI. This will not be solved by more teraflops on the graphics card. I don’t know the answer, but as gamers, and as paying customers, we should demand better.

And I agree completely. I’m one of those people who doesn’t own a Series X and still tells 343 to release the game only on next gen consoles. The multiplayer can be cross gen. But the campaign should be purely next gen to take full advantage of level design, AI, physics, and scale.