343: Are you listening to US?

Games Other Halo
1

Ever since the announcement of Legendary Slayer I was confident that 343 we’re really doing there best they could with Halo 4. They we’re actually listening to the community, taking their feedback. Without them, Halo 4 would be more of disaster without the Weapon Tuning Update.

But now, 343 have been taking steps backwards from my point of view. They put Legendary Slayer with the Infinity, now named Team, Slayer playlist despite all of our cries not to. We told them that Legendary Slayer was never going to get voted for because Infinity Players like to play and vote for Infinity. This also tells you can never get anything but Infinity Slayer in the DLC TS playlist.

Despite all this, it’s obvious that Infinity players outweigh the rest of us who want a good matchmaking experience. Since this is why LS had such a low population, it’s also why it got moved in to Infinity.

I think this is because 343 is looking at what has the lowest population. They look at the difference in population then connect the playlist with another playlist. But the thing is, when they do that, they are mixing up 2 types of people who want different things. 1 of those types of people are not getting the gametype they want to play, and that’s US!

Next, Slayer Pro was removed from the Team Slayer playlist. We, here at this forum, again asked them not to. It has been a well known playlist for ever and it would just be blatant stupid to discard it. Here we are, no more Slayer Pro. We have TS, but it never gets voted for.

October 1st comes, removal of Dominion and Multi-Team. Multi-team, once again, is one of those iconic gametypes and it can’t be matched with any other playlist. It’s stupid to take it out. Dominion was actually a fan favorite from Halo 4 from the reactions I’ve seen on the forums. Now, sure these are rotational playlists, but isn’t it ridiculous that we have to wait 7 weeks to play these gametypes that should’ve remained?

With all that said, I want to know. Who are you listening to 343? Are you interacting with your community? Do you look at the Team Beyond website? Do you watch HaloFollowers Talking Back series? Do you examine posts on reddit? Does anyone but BS Angel MAKE REPLIES on the official HaloWaypoint forums? Or are you just making decisions based off the population of people who prefer Infinity gametypes?

2

your usage of the derogatory term ‘infinity scrubs’ automatically makes me not want to continue reading this… just seems like another ‘ye olde rage thread’ to me…

3

What term would you rather me use? COD players? That could be invalid. Casual Players? The majority of people here are casual players.

4

> What term would you rather me use? COD players? That could be invalid. Casual Players? I’m a casual player.

Just people who prefer infinity over the other options… ‘scrubs’ implies that you think they’re lesser than you because they like infinity…

5

> your usage of the derogatory term ‘infinity scrubs’ automatically makes me not want to continue reading this… just seems like another ‘ye olde rage thread’ to me…

this. just another one of these threads.

343 is doing what they can with what they have. they messed up and acknowledged that. its not like they can just rebuild the game again over night. they are doing what they can to make everyone happy. its bound to tick a few people off.

moving forward i feel that they know what needs to be done. if halo 5 is more of the same however…

6

why not make a social playlist for those “casual scrubs” you talk about,
and pro and legendary for default infinity slayer?

7

> > What term would you rather me use? COD players? That could be invalid. Casual Players? I’m a casual player.
>
> Just people who prefer infinity over the other options… ‘scrubs’ implies that you think they’re lesser than you because they like infinity…

Thanks, you are right. I shouldn’t question people who like Infinity, but some recognition from our POV would be nice.

8

> What term would you rather me use? COD players? That could be invalid. Casual Players? The majority of people here are casual players.

Do you think that people that prefer Infinity settings are somehow lessor in skill or quality?

9

> > What term would you rather me use? COD players? That could be invalid. Casual Players? The majority of people here are casual players.
>
> Do you think that people that prefer Infinity settings are somehow lessor in skill or quality?

I consider them to be newcomers, people who grew fond of this gametype since launch. It seems rare that someone who has played previous games like this gametype.

10

> > > What term would you rather me use? COD players? That could be invalid. Casual Players? The majority of people here are casual players.
> >
> > Do you think that people that prefer Infinity settings are somehow lessor in skill or quality?
>
> I consider them to be newcomers, people who grew fond of this gametype since launch. It seems rare that someone who has played previous games like this gametype.

let me just say that i started with ce and i mostly dont like infinity stuff. ill play it just not as long or as enjoyable as halo of old.

HOWEVER the biggest issue that keeps me from playing this game is the lag and hit detection issues. nothing worse than putting an entire clip of br ammo into a guy (literally) only to have him turn around and melee you once for the kill.

when i have to stare at a black screen for 3 - 5 minutes every match gets pretty annoying too.

11

At this point, 343i is stuck because no matter what they do with Halo 4, their decisions will be unpopular. There are very few “classic” players left in Halo 4, so if they make a change for “classic” players, the Infinity players will be upset because no one’s playing those changes anyway. If they make a change for the Infinity players, the classic fans get upset because 343i is going further away from “classic” Halo.

12

Do you think that people don’t know this? I’m not 100% sure, but the fix for this is playlist consolidation. But there are too many gametypes in a playlist that one side never gets to play what they want.

13

Gidy, i fully respect your opinion and would love classic as well as infinity settings with equal respect, i just find it hard to be as fair when classic fans call names on infinity players, though im glad you’ve reconsidered that, i REALLY hope H5 (if i ever actually bother with an xbone) can get both to work together… its not too hard, they just have to make sure all the options are there!

14

> Gidy, i fully respect your opinion and would love classic as well as infinity settings with equal respect, i just find it hard to be as fair when classic fans call names on infinity players, though im glad you’ve reconsidered that, i REALLY hope H5 (if i ever actually bother with an xbone) can get both to work together… its not too hard, they just have to make sure all the options are there!

I concur. And if this is to happen they better leave a good first impression. Halo 4 left a bad one.

15

Honestly, I don’t think they’ve really been listening all along. To an extent yes, but most of their solutions have been almost to quiet people but not directly impact the game i.e. putting legendary into regular slayer, csr not being visible in-game etc.

I understand 343 wants to make their own game as well, but Halo isn’t a new series, that’s the problem. Players don’t want the entire mechanics new, just improved. I’m surprised Microsoft allowed half of the changes to be honest. In just general business sense, the amount of feedback 343 gets through these forums, and chooses to ignore is ridiculous. There has been a few multi-hundred page threads completed swept under the rug. That just shouldn’t happen.

They’re paying for it though, Reach has had a larger daily population since week 17, and it’s not surprise halo 4 population is nowhere near as lasting as previous halos.

Square Enix is in a lot of trouble for the same reasons. Focusing on their own games, huge budgets but not listening to their consumers (and more specifically North American consumers). The next final fantasy is going to bankrupt them, that’s my prediction.

In short, I think 343 needs to weigh players opinions into the game much more. It’s been a mediocre job - at best- for listening.

16

Glad you edited the OP, it has kept this thread open for discussion in place of it getting locked.

Yes 343i listen and interact, they have twitter, bulletins, community cartographers, AGL pro’s, play the game themselves etc. I know what it’s like to have a lower population playlist/setting bounced around or removed. I’ve been living with it since the community decline for objective/CTF/assault and Halo 2.

At the end of the day we’re receiving faster updates to matchmaking than any previous Halo title and that’s a good thing. I don’t agree with all of the choices and I don’t love all of them either. For now I am happy with most of 343i’s choices regarding matchmaking and at least appreciate the speed and attention post game launch the sustain team provides.

For next gen Halo I hope for player toggles about settings/maps to them use the matchmaking and voting processes to better effect. It would lead to closer matching, improve game experiences/skill matching and provide player choice in a standardised system like matchmaking.

17

Square will be saved by the millions of sales from Kingdom Hearts 3 ^.^

But in all seriousness, I stick to my opinion where they are just making assumptions population wise. If a playlist has low population, consolidate or remove it. If it is mixed with another playlist, good luck playing it.

18

> Square will be saved by the millions of sales from Kingdom Hearts 3 ^.^
>
> But in all seriousness, I stick to my opinion where they are just making assumptions population wise. If a playlist has low population, consolidate or remove it. If it is mixed with another playlist, good luck playing it.

I don’t think so honestly. Tomb Raider sold 3.4 million copies and still cost them $130 million in losses. I don’t think we will see them for much longer.

19

> Glad you edited the OP, it has kept this thread open for discussion in place of it getting locked.
>
> Yes 343i listen and interact, they have twitter, bulletins, community cartographers, AGL pro’s, play the game themselves etc. I know what it’s like to have a lower population playlist/setting bounced around or removed. I’ve been living with it since the community decline for objective/CTF/assault and Halo 2.
>
> At the end of the day we’re receiving faster updates to matchmaking than any previous Halo title and that’s a good thing. I don’t agree with all of the choices and I don’t love all of them either. For now I am happy with most of 343i’s choices regarding matchmaking and at least appreciate the speed and attention post game launch the sustain team provides.
>
> For next gen Halo I hope for player toggles about settings/maps to them use the matchmaking and voting processes to better effect. It would lead to closer matching, improve game experiences/skill matching and provide player choice in a standardised system like matchmaking.

Wow
Why isn’t here a MM system like this?

20

Thank you for changing your verbiage. Insulting others for their opinions and preferences is not tolerated here, as it’s purely subjective.

Now, to the topic at hand. Making decisions such as the ones you reference are not easy. There are two important things to note: Forum goers do not equal the online population, and stats and trends are weighed appropriately in comparison to anecdotal feedback. Both are important, absolutely; however there is a delicate balance between the two that needs to be respected. While you can get a rough idea of how many people are playing a certain playlist at a particular time, we know exactly how many people are playing in each hopper, down to an hourly level. We also know what game types and maps are being voted on (along with numerous other player preferences). You can come on the forum, make a poll, and get 100 people to vote and agree with you, but if only 2% of the online population is reflecting that desire, it’s not likely we’re going to implement it.

Anecdotal feedback is important, and it helps us investigate and determine what is actionable. It is not the cure-all, though, nor will it ever be, as online statistics are a vital and important part of the decision making process.

So, to answer your question, while we may not be doing exactly what you’re asking for, we are listening, and we are making the decisions that are best for our players, as often and as frequently as possible.

Thanks for the discussion, by the way. We appreciate when people share their opinion, whether it be positive, negative, or somewhere in between.