I will play devil’s advocate on this. There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting a bigger, broader audience. I think all of us here can agree that more people trying Halo out is a good thing. When conversations like this come up we tend to think “broader audience” = “betraying what Halo is.” I can see why people would think that but it doesn’t necessarily have to be that way.
I believe growth and keeping the core fanbase happy are not mutually exclusive things. I believe Infinite is a good start in that regard (though it has plenty of issues that need fixing, of course).
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Oh of course not. We’re not saying don’t bring in more fans, the problem is they tend to throw the fans out for this imaginary broader audience. It’s like if From Software decided to make Dark Souls 4 and made it easy, throwing out the fans so more players can play it, when 343 should be doing what From Software have actually done with Elden Ring and just make a better game expanding on what makes the game that it is instead of chasing trends etc.
I agree 343 did well in combining the two Halo fanbases, but this is more about what they recently said in interviews, the TV show and free-to-play etc.
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I don’t think the broader audience is imaginary, as you say. Obviously there are millions of potential players/customers out there. The question is how to get them to try and stick with Halo. I am glad we agree that the gameplay is a healthy blend. I think what Infinite needs is a refinement/overhaul of the supporting systems and additional content. The gameplay is stellar.
I’m not sure what quotes you’re referring to specifically then. I’m aware of the WaPo article they did where broader audiences are mentioned and I must admit there wasn’t anything in the article that really stood out to me as problematic. 343 usually says the right things but right now, for me at least, the issue isn’t what they are saying, it’s the slow pace at which the game is getting updates.
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I think it’s a 50/50 split. As you say, there are definitely millions of other people playing games, and finding ways to get more of them playing Halo and joining the community would be quite nice. But conversely, I do feel like some execs (not just in gaming but in general) can focus too much on chasing a ‘broader audience’ that might not always exist or plan on participating in your product, and of course trying to change too much too quickly can lead to an alienation of the original audience.
Plus I agree that Infinite is a decent blend in terms of gameplay mechanics, but suffers in terms of content and supporting systems.
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I don’t know, maybe calling your fans a threat and keeping you from reaching your goals is problematic.
Maybe not being greatful that you have a passionate/engaged fan base and community is problematic.
It’s not a good read if you are a long time fan.
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Absolutely and this might be the optimist in me speaking, but I think 343 has learned that lesson well with Halo 4. Halo 4 was… a bit too obvious in that it wanted a piece of the CoD playerbase. And with the gameplay Infinite has, I am confident that they’ve struck this balance with knowing what Halo is and isn’t (not saying 4 isn’t Halo, but it was a bit further out there than the rest).
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I think what has particularly soured people to 343 copying from other IP’s, is that it comes at a cost.
Copied features aren’t a new game mode, their injected into everything. Firefight, Forge, Custom Games Browser, and apparently even now Co-Op are routinely put on the back burner to make room for copied features.
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To be fair, 343 didn’t call them a threat. The author of the article did.
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I think it’s also important to note that the insinuation is that it’s something that 343 will need to fix, not just a blanket statement that fans are a threat and in the way of their ambitions - but rather that the upset amongst the fanbase about the game needs to be addressed prior to realizing said ambitions.
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I will give you that. However, they did not pull that idea from their nether region, so I have to believe, that sentiment was expressed by 343i along the way. Either way, it does not portray the fan base in a positive light.
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Pretty much, I took it as, we can’t do what we want because fans are making us create Halo in a certain way. That’s how I took it when they said grounding Halo, as in keeping it like Halo. Sort of how Disney removed the original EU as that was keeping them grounded from doing certain expansions to Star Wars. If they could I bet 343 would do the same with Bungie’s Halo.
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Growth is only ensured if the core audience is in a healthy state, if it keeps on unnecessarily fragmenting and splintering, it will only result in an environment that no one wants to get into, that is the danger of neglecting the core audience, an unhappy audience will ensure that no one will join, eventually resulting in the worst possible scenario, apathy from both fans and newcomers.
I understand their intent to take Halo to new heights, I just wish they’d truly recognise that Fan Loyalty is very willing to aid in that intention, eagerly with open arms. but if its unhappy and damaged then that dream becomes a bipolar nightmare.
I realise I use a lot of hyperbole at times, but I am gravely concerned by this, its not a good ground to be standing on to draw in more people. its like having an active tour sight going on while an earthquake is destroying the sights, doesn’t paint a pretty picture of the place, the newcomers would be seeing things at their worst, which hurts the loyalists because they know what the place is like at its best.
am I making sense?
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You’re making perfect sense. And I agree with you because I am also concerned, but perhaps for different reasons. I’m less concerned with them pleasing their loyal and old-school fans: the gameplay of Infinite has done a fantastic job of being a more classic Halo experience while also bringing something new.
My concerns lie with this post-launch support, or lack of it. It has been said time and time again on here, Twitter, and the subreddit that this is NOT the live-service we were told about prior to launch. And I hope the curtain is lifted soon because people are understandably running out of patience, or ran out of it long ago.
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To be honest, I think that sums up Halo 5, or heck, even the debate about sprint Vs non-sprint. I see it as if you bring new people in with stuff the old fans don’t like, then they’re going to be at odds and it’ll split the fandom.
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I feel post launch issues correlate with the Core audience’s mood, especially since they’ve been burned too many times to the point where trust is on a knife’s edge, a very precarious edge, especially since they end up being the most patient when it comes to things.
I hope the curtain gets unfurled too, just anything will immediate begin to alleviate concerns and potentially begin to rebuild trust, even if it is the uncertainty of game development.
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PRECICELY what sequels are supposed to do.
Provide a classic feel while providing something new that doesn’t reinvent how the game plays.
Halo 4 added Loadouts and Perks
Halo 5 made it so everyone had thruster mobility as a default among other things.
Halo Infinite plays like Halo 3, with equipment pickups that are expendable resources. Sure sprinting, sliding, and clambering are in the game; but unlike Halo 5 they aren’t something that forces every match to be a sweat match. Clamber and vehicle seat swapping were welcome additions to player mobility options so I am glad those stayed.
But it also extends beyond gameplay. The look and sound of Halo Infinite still FEELS like classic Halo instead of the over-designed assets and misfit soundtracks of Halo 4 and Halo 5. Spartans are back to looking like Spartans instead of Power Rangers or generic Sci-Fi soldiers. The Aliens of Halo now look like Aliens instead of just monsters.
If I could turn back time (classic song BTW), I would have preferred Halo 4 to look, feel, and play like Halo Infinite. Perhaps then the fanbase wouldn’t be so filled with spite.
Halo 4 and 5 were built like you would built a spin-off title.
Spin-offs are allowed to stray from the regular designs of the franchise, while still keeping their core intact.
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Halo 3 ODST - You play as ODSTs instead of a Spartan, so some gameplay aspects were tweaked.
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Halo Reach - You play as a Spartan-III in a team and it was a more grim story, so the art style shifted to be more gritty rather than polished.
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Halo Wars 1 & 2 - An RTS game rather than a FPS game.
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Halo Spartan Assault & Spartan Strike - Top-Down shooters rather than FPS.
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Halo Fireteam Raven - A four-player on-the-rails co-op arcade shooter.
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Halo Recruit - A VR Tech demo with Halo assets.
Halo 4 and 5 felt like spinoffs at best and fan-made mods built by uncoordinated mod developers at worst.
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get it together 343, fix your game and listen to your community.
Not all that uncommon for someone to be paid for making a tweet. It’s just advertisement.
Nothing they’re making threatens us. Halo is allowed to be more than a game.
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That’s actually a pretty good summation of the games.
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