3 Shot Burst VS Single Shot (BR vs DMR)

i think i figured out a reason why so many people like the BR so much more than the DMR. the reason? the BR seems more powerful.

technically it can be more powerful in that the BR is a 4 shot kill whilst the DMR is a 5 shot kill, but theres more to it than that. the reason i believe it feels more powerful is because of the 3 shot burst. there is just something about the 3 shot burst that feels a lot more ‘exciting’, and powerful than a single shot from the DMR.

i think it would be awesome to see the BR come back, but i wouldnt mind if a re-done DMR was back, with MASSIVE bloom tweaks (because the bloom algorithm in reach is EMBARRASSINGLY BAD).

the BR, with the optimal ‘hitscan’, takes more AIMING skill than the DMR does. with the BR you have to aim not only the first bullet from the burst, but the next 2 bullets also, or they will miss. with the DMR you just aim on target and press R, and you get a hit. i think this is another factor in why the BR feels more ‘exciting’, because you have to aim it not only when you shoot, but shortly thereafter as well so you dont miss the later bullets in the 3 bullet burst.

the DMR with bloom would force you to pace your shots, slower than spamming, so it wins out on skill-gap in that area.

what do you guys think? does the DMR or the BR feel more ‘intense’, or ‘powerful’ when you shoot it? (NOT TALKING ABOUT DAMAGE, OR KILL TIMES, im talking about 1 or 2 pulls of the R trigger)

From what I gather it’s for 2 main reasons.

1)With 1 grenade and 1 burst of a BR, 3 players can be taken down, the DMR cannot do that.

2)You can swipe your shot across an unshielded enemy at mid-range and reliably get a headshot, the DMR is not guaranteed to do that.

Those 2 factors make it feel less useful. As for power, each shot is divided into a third of the actual potential power. It’s not a damage-powerful weapon but it is useful-powerful compared to the competition that isn’t a powerweapon.

Sure there was the Carbine in Halo3, but for some reason, despite being able to kill faster in theory, it just doesn’t do so consistently online. I couldn’t say for sure offline, but its ability to kill online seems either hindered by the coding, or that it has less bullet magnetism than the BR (because it was more accurate than the BR spread, but not as precise as a BR’s first shot), or perhaps a combination of many factors. I find it weird the DMR and NR both feel more reliable than the H3 Carbine and all 3 are single shot. Not sure what to say on that one other than better coding.

The Halo2 Carbine lost to the BR when button combos were used.

If they removed the Bloom from the DMR and turned the DMR into a Single Shot Rifle with no Bloom and the same Rate of Fire as the Battle Rifle, then it would be fine. But I still prefer the Battle Rifle to the DMR. Besides, in Halo 4 we’ll see the next generation of weapons. Maybe a 5 shot Battle Rifle :slight_smile:

> From what I gather it’s for 2 main reasons.
>
> 1)With 1 grenade and 1 burst of a BR, 3 players can be taken down, the DMR cannot do that.
>
> 2)You can swipe your shot across an unshielded enemy at mid-range and reliably get a headshot, the DMR is not guaranteed to do that.
>
> Those 2 factors make it feel less useful. As for power, each shot is divided into a third of the actual potential power. It’s not a damage-powerful weapon but it is useful-powerful compared to the competition that isn’t a powerweapon.
>
> Sure there was the Carbine in Halo3, but for some reason, despite being able to kill faster in theory, it just doesn’t do so consistently online. I couldn’t say for sure offline, but its ability to kill online seems either hindered by the coding, or that it has less bullet magnetism than the BR (because it was more accurate than the BR spread, but not as precise as a BR’s first shot), or perhaps a combination of many factors. I find it weird the DMR and NR both feel more reliable than the H3 Carbine and all 3 are single shot. Not sure what to say on that one other than better coding.
>
> The Halo2 Carbine lost to the BR when button combos were used.

This. BR > DMR

My swat skills were halved when i had to start using the stupid DMR… BR all the way!

> From what I gather it’s for 2 main reasons.
>
> 1)With 1 grenade and 1 burst of a BR, 3 players can be taken down, the DMR cannot do that.
>
> 2)You can swipe your shot across an unshielded enemy at mid-range and reliably get a headshot, the DMR is not guaranteed to do that.
>
> Those 2 factors make it feel less useful. As for power, each shot is divided into a third of the actual potential power. It’s not a damage-powerful weapon but it is useful-powerful compared to the competition that isn’t a powerweapon.
>
> Sure there was the Carbine in Halo3, but for some reason, despite being able to kill faster in theory, it just doesn’t do so consistently online. I couldn’t say for sure offline, but its ability to kill online seems either hindered by the coding, or that it has less bullet magnetism than the BR (because it was more accurate than the BR spread, but not as precise as a BR’s first shot), or perhaps a combination of many factors. I find it weird the DMR and NR both feel more reliable than the H3 Carbine and all 3 are single shot. Not sure what to say on that one other than better coding.
>
> The Halo2 Carbine lost to the BR when button combos were used.

I can summarize this in 2 words: DMR sucks.

My main problem with the DMR is that it turned the game into a distance game rather then mid to close range game. The BR was perfect because it wan’t easy to kill someone across the map, which forced people to move up on each other. Where as with the DMR, you can easily kill someone across the map no problem. This is the exact reason why Pinnacle doesn’t have the same “spark” as it did in Halo 2.

I was never a big fan of the BR, I always prefered a single-shot precision rifle as it is more punishing. If the DMR didnt have bloom problems it would be a fun and competitve weapon but its bloom is pretty horrible sometimes with the luck factor. I think in Halo 4 they will have a rifle or pistol that has selective fire, burst fire or precision fire similar to how the H2 Br was in the tech demo. That would be my dream weapon anyway a weapon with selective fire.

I don’t really care about damage or any type of statistics, because that can all be changed. I like the DMR for it’s aesthetics. I like the overall look of it, and I hate 3 shot burst weapons. In any game. Nothing against power or any other stats, I just like the sound and feel of one, powerful, accurate shot.

What I dislike about the BR is the 3-round burst because that severly reduces the overall ammo you have. It might look like that the BR carries a lot of ammo, i.e. 36 rounds in the weapon and an extra 108 rounds(which is just enough for only three extra magazines) for a total of 144. But since you’re firing 3 rounds with each shot, it’s actually only 48 shots total.

Compared to the carbine’s total of 90 shots (18 in weapon + 72 extra), the DMR’s total of 75 (15 in weapon + 60 extra) and the needle rifle’s total of 105 (21 in weapon + 84 extra), that’s really low.

It doesn’t really matter that much in multiplayer (although I did run out of BR ammo in H2 and H3 surprisingly often on large maps), but it sucks in the campaign. In H2’s and H3’s campaign I only ever picked up a BR if there wasn’t a carbine or sniper/beam rifle I could use instead.

I think everyone that hates the DMR just doesn’t know how to use it, honestly all you have to do is slow down and time your shots and it is an easy 5 shot. I don’t like Reach as a game, but it isn’t really because of the DMR, it is because people don’t know how to use it. It takes a lot more skill than using a BR which makes the game more competitive. I think they should keep the DMR but just bring back the BR in Halo 4 and make them the same power. Either both 4 shots or both 5 Shot and at the same rate of fire. That way we can see who is better, someone with a flawless 4 shot DMR or someone with a perfect 4 shot BR. The needle rifle and carbine should both be in the game too. Since they are re-making Halo-Ce they could even bring in the pistol too which was a 3 shot, but they could weaken in and make it a 4 shot. That way we can see what weapon really is the best. Pistol/BR/DMR. That would make for some interesting matchmaking too.

The BR required more skill than the DMR because it wasn’t a hitscan, all three bullets had different levels of accuracy (the first was extremely accurate, second was mildly accurate, the third wasn’t accurate at all.), and you had to aim all three bullets.

The DMR is just point and spam.

i think maybe they could just tweak the sound on the DMR to make it sound more beastly. right now it sounds pretty wimpish, whilst the BR sounds like it would tear -Yoink- up!

> My swat skills were halved when i had to start using the stupid DMR… BR all the way!

Haha, mine have increased tenfold!

I prefer the DMR. Single shot = more skill. Just remove the bloom of it and people will love this gun, I guarantee it.

> i think maybe they could just tweak the sound on the DMR to make it sound more beastly. right now it sounds pretty wimpish, whilst the BR sounds like it would tear Yoink! up!

The Halo 2 BR was and sounded like a beast. The one in H3 got more weak. But I agree they could make the DMR sound more powerful. Also the Pistol! That sounds like you’re popping corn in your microwave when you shoot that puny weapon. (Plus it sucks overall with bloom anyway).

> The BR required more skill than the DMR because it wasn’t a hitscan, all three bullets had different levels of accuracy (the first was extremely accurate, second was mildly accurate, the third wasn’t accurate at all.), and you had to aim all three bullets.
>
> The DMR is just point and spam.

That’s only because of their failed bloom mechanic.

The DMR would be great if it had a mechanism like the CE Pistol.

> From what I gather it’s for 2 main reasons.
>
> 1)With 1 grenade and 1 burst of a BR, 3 players can be taken down, the DMR cannot do that.
>
> 2)You can swipe your shot across an unshielded enemy at mid-range and reliably get a headshot, the DMR is not guaranteed to do that.
>
> Those 2 factors make it feel less useful. As for power, each shot is divided into a third of the actual potential power. It’s not a damage-powerful weapon but it is useful-powerful compared to the competition that isn’t a powerweapon.
>
> Sure there was the Carbine in Halo3, but for some reason, despite being able to kill faster in theory, it just doesn’t do so consistently online. I couldn’t say for sure offline, but its ability to kill online seems either hindered by the coding, or that it has less bullet magnetism than the BR (because it was more accurate than the BR spread, but not as precise as a BR’s first shot), or perhaps a combination of many factors. I find it weird the DMR and NR both feel more reliable than the H3 Carbine and all 3 are single shot. Not sure what to say on that one other than better coding.
>
> The Halo2 Carbine lost to the BR when button combos were used.

3 players can be taken down with one grenade and one burst of the BR?! whistles Damn! That’s a good player. Any reason a good player doesn’t deserve that triple kill?

Besides, you can do the exact same thing in Reach, only it takes 3 shots of the DMR. In fact, it’s even easier in Reach! If this was possible to do in Halo 3 (I doubt it is, never seen it in my life) then the 3 opponents would need to be packed together tightly (the blast radius of H3’s grenades is smaller than Reach’s, remember) and when the grenade blows up send all the opponents in the same direction so all their heads align (which wouldn’t happen, the blast would send them in different directions unless they were all standing in the exact same spot which is impossible); this scenario is impossible. The other way of accomplishing such a task would be to have extremely fast and accurate aim. Such a player deserves to kill those players, no? A better question, though is why those 3 players were so close together. Such a play deserves to get them killed by a godly player. Anyway, that question doesn’t matter; the task you proposed is impossible, and no, I’m not going to believe your word. Video or it didn’t happen.

Back to my point, that it is actually possible in Reach, just with 3 shots and it’s easier, too!. You might be saying, "yea, so? That’s 3 shots not 1 burst. However, your 1 burst example is extremely difficult to pull off, if not impossible. Whilst it’s entirely possible to throw a nade in and easily get 3 players to no shields thanks to Reach’s ‘OP’ nades. From there you could get 3 headshots with your DMR. They wouldn’t stand a chance against a good player. A good player. You don’t even need to be godly like your BR example.

Point being; it’s extremely unlikely to do in Halo 3, if not impossible and it’s entirely possible to do in Reach, by an ‘inferior’ player, too. Reach is ‘easier’.

That swiping your shot to get a headshot on an unshielded opponent… what’s your point? Who got him to 1-shot? You, or maybe a teammate. In both situation he deserves to die. Besides, a player who has accurate aim will kill a ‘swiper’. Don’t forget in order to ‘swipe’ a headshot your reticule needs to be off your opponent’s head when you fire. A player with good accuracy would’ve already had the first bullet of the BR’s burst in his opponent’s head whilst the ‘swiper’ put his first bullet in either his opponents chest or into the air. What I’m saying is that a swipper won’t win any battles he shouldn’t. Randomly found an opponent 1-shot? Swipe and perhaps miss, or aim accurately and get the kill. Either way he’ll win as he’s caught someone off-guard 1-shot whilst he presumably has some, if not full shields. In a 1v1 encounter where both players have full shields the player with the better aim will win. Swiping isn’t a problem. Now, spamming in Reach to get a clean 5-shot is… what’s more of a problem is having just part of a spammed DMR’s reticule on someone’s head and getting a head shot! Bloom is a problem. Swiping isn’t.

I thought of another example where it’s possible to get a triple kill with one grenade and one BR burst; if the random BR bullets all randomly hit his opponent’s heads. However, that’s still extremely unlikely as the three heads will need to close together and in such a play they deserve to die. You don’t pact yourself like sardines in a sardine tin! Easy way to get your whole team killed by 2 grenades. Anyway, that random BR spread getting the three headshots is less likely to happen than spamming a clean 5-shot. Bloom is more of a problem than the random BR spread.

What the DMR does is it just draws out the encounters and adds in a bit of luck to the mixture. That’s what players don’t like. The drawn out luck battles. The BR was quick and to the point. The player with better aim won. There was no BS like bloom giving lucky kills every once in a while! The only reason the spread seemed so bad was because of H3’s terrible netcode.

The answer is to give us the Halo 2 BR. Accurate shots and hitscan!

> My main problem with the DMR is that it turned the game into a distance game rather then mid to close range game. The BR was perfect because it wan’t easy to kill someone across the map, which forced people to move up on each other. Where as with the DMR, you can easily kill someone across the map no problem. This is the exact reason why Pinnacle doesn’t have the same “spark” as it did in Halo 2.

I agree entirely!

I also agree with the OP. BR sounds somewhat beastly; I like that. The DMR, however, sounds like a BB gun. pew pew pew

Wait a minute… oh gawd! I’ve become what I feared most! A poster like iQ and Reaper! Writing long boring posts -_-
At least mine are sightly humorous.

If I was asked which one seems more powerful, of course I would choose BR. Simple reason to that is that with BR you hear the three shots coming out of it, which immediately gives you the feeling of power in your hands. With DMR you only hear one, but a fact is that a single shot from DMR sounds much more powerful than a single bullet from BR. It’s the burst fire that makes the BR feel more powerful.

I can’t just write this without thinking about their actual power relation, but there are many ways to think about it. DMR wins in actual bullet power, it kills with only five bullets while it takes twelve from BR. When we come to actual kill times, I came to the conclusion that, in theory, DMR kills faster than BR as it can fire very quickly, but bloom will screw up the shots.

This all leads me to conclusion that BR may feel more powerful, but DMR is actually more powerful, comes it from bullet damage or (fastest “possible”) kill times.

@ MrCheesy: What’s wrong with long posts :frowning:

> If I was asked which one seems more powerful, of course I would choose BR. Simple reason to that is that with BR you hear the three shots coming out of it, which immediately gives you the feeling of power in your hands. With DMR you only hear one, but a fact is that a single shot from DMR sounds much more powerful than a single bullet from BR. It’s the burst fire that makes the BR feel more powerful.

I disagree entirely. A single bullet from the BR sounds more powerful than a DMR bullet. Like I’ve said before. The DMR sounds like a BB gun.

Oh, and what’s wrong with long posts? Almost no one reads 'em… or they just skim and don’t entirely get what you’re trying to say.

I want to say “duh” that a team would have to be more tightly grouped together OR that the player who is swipe-shooting is using a skill or capitalising a teammate’s shield dropping. The double-kill in any mode with 1 BR burst is not rare, the triple, of course. In SWAT, 1 burst-multikills are very often. The BR has more potential.

1 BR burst = triple kill, 2nd shot = extermination, SWAT of course. But do notice the technique of swiping the reticle, even on the second burst. Later, the player pops 2 enemies with precision shots but misses the third enemy, after 1 or 2 missed shots, the player indicates no-joy and swipes the head.

> This all leads me to conclusion that BR may feel more powerful, but DMR is actually more powerful, comes it from bullet damage or (fastest “possible”) kill times.

Won’t argue that one :smiley:

> I want to say “duh” that a team would have to be more tightly grouped together OR that the player who is swipe-shooting is using a skill. The double-kill in any mode with 1 BR burst is not rare, the triple, of course. In SWAT, 1 burst-multikills are very often. The BR has more potential.
>
> 1 BR burst = triple kill, 2nd shot = extermination, SWAT of course. But do notice the technique of swiping the reticle, even on the second burst. Later, the player pops 2 enemies with precision shots but misses the third enemy, after 1 or 2 missed shots, the player indicates no-joy and swipes the head.

We weren’t talking about a double kill with 1 burst. We were talking about a triple kill, and you give me SWAT?! SWAT’s a sub section of Halo gameplay. It’s not the main one and as such shouldn’t be determining dramatic changes. Besides, getting a triple kill with one burst even in SWAT is still rarer than getting a clean spammed 5-shot with the DMR. Hell, in SWAT it’s possible to get an overkill by spamming 4 shots with the DMR. Anyway, either scenario will only happen if you’re playing with ‘bad kids’ that bunch up and rush.

As for the double kill with one burst, that’s fine. He got them both down to 1-shot, or maybe his team helped, but the point is they’re 1-shot and he isn’t; they deserve to die. However if the user in question is also 1-shot and he gets a double kill with one burst he deserves it, too. Why? Well by the time he fired his first bullet the two opponents could’ve fired two. If their aim is off they’re the lesser player and die, but if either one of their aim was on target the would-be-lucky-burst-double-kill-user would die and at most he’ll only get one kill.

Like I’ve said, the BR is just a quicker way of determing who’s the better player than the DMR which just draws out battles and adds “random” into the equation. He’s not a cool guy.

Regardless, you can’t honestly say Reach’s bloom, or any bloom for that matter, is less of a problem than ‘swiping’.