Must be talking about LAN’s because I never exprienced that over xbox live. Most people seemingly took things fairly seriously and loads of people got mad when things didn’t work the way they wanted too. Rage quitting penalties became a thing because people got mad at others and left matches in Halo 2.
Moding scene was a thing because people were determined at all cost, even if it meant cheating.
I will admit it was pretty newb friendly back then though. How powerful Aim Assist was in that game was insane and rocket locking onto vehicles made them pretty worthless. BTB Coagulation matches I used to pin down the entire team by myself if I got both Rockets and the Sniper Rifle.
The part that I found especially 343 like is when the subject showing other identies is mentioned and then immediately followed with “other industries are doing this”.
Remeber when Halo was innovative not imitative?
Great that they want bring different aspect that allow for expression of your spartan but there are a few issues.
Cross core is still only available with visors
The predatory microtransactions make that notion null and void.
That video is absolutely hilarious. Instead of apologizing or explaining WTF they have been doing for the last 5 years, they start advertising that dumb jacket after 1:30 mins.
We’ve discussed this haven’t we? The drops are a piss poor reason to watch Infinite, now I won’t say they do nothing, but best believe they do very little. Infinite has tons of folks that watch the tourneys (ANZ regional is starting in a few minutes btw) and its just a lot more of a presence than one would assume.
I’d honestly be curious what % of people are watching purely for the drops. Yea they suck and are lackluster, but so do all the other options available to F2P players.
Not true.
I uavent been competitive in any game for years. Its my chill out time when i game.
The fact is halo was more a social experiment than competitive shooter at its core for many years and that was the hight of its popularity.
The focis on purely competitive is a huge disservice to the franchise and a major mistake on 343is behalf.
Competitive play derives naturally from a featureful fun party game.
Eg: halo 1-3, quake, smash bros, etc.
the game isnt in a place where competitive play should be a priority at all.
That should come later.
At least imo.
even when you are chilling, you are just as competitive as a pro player so long as the other team is also chilling. You are using the word competitive to describe high skilled games in which you must try hard to compete. If matchhmaking doesnt do its job, it is no longer considered competitive yet people will refer to that as too competittive when its really just a skill and/or game design issue.
The number 1 thing wrong with inffiinite is aiming. 2nd thing is no radar because its random when players utilize communication skills. 3rd thing is not having different playlists that require different entry skill levels.
one simple way to make matchmaking even better is to make radar even bigger. that doesnt make it less competitive but it does fix the communication issue matchmaking has and makes matches feel more competitive while sacrificing communication skill and a few gameplay opportunities while also introducing new opportunities.
competitive definition - Competitive is most commonly used to describe a person who has a strong desire to compete and win
Do you still have a strong desire to win if a match is impossible to win? No, thats when people start quitting.
Everyone has to be competitive. it becomes a problem when only a few people can be competitive.
No sorry thats just plain incorrect within the first 2 sentences you have completely dismissed what i expressed and assumed you had better insight into my experience than i do. Thats incredibly arrogant.
I do not play games competitively.
And
I do not play games professionally.
Are not synonymous and i do not use them interchangeably.
I play halo to relax and have fun.
Winning is never my goal.
I like to screw around with the sandbox and map design and ill play objectives or kill enemy team players because that is when fun factor and sandbox interaction is at its most intense.
That said im totally not gonna go for the smart play in a situation where the dumb play results in either A getting a power weapon for a moment or 2 or B big silly explosions and rag dolls.
Competition is not the draw its purely the social aspect of having humans interact with a fun sandbox and seeing the interactions that arise.
Please refrain from telling others what they mean when they speak their minds its a really poor avenue of interaction.
Should you feel you want to clarify what the intent of a statement is, ask don’t tell me what I mean.
Ask
Example:
[quote=“Ryan_lfc_92, post:30, topic:544373”]
SO even when you are chilling, ARE YOU just as competitive as a pro player so long as the other team is also chilling? OR ARE YOU using the word competitive to describe high skilled games in which you must try hard to compete?
NOT
As for the rest of the comment.
Ill play halo matches to completion when its a 1v4 in min 1 and have as much fun as a 4v4 because winning or the drive to win is not the root of my desire to play the game.
Matchmaking isnt great but your solution doesnt seen to be either imo. At least not when the entire game is considered and what needs to be added for it to be where it needs to be.
Radar isnt the 2nd biggest issue for me.
For me the issues remain
Progression, playlist structure, stagnated map design and appaling ui that make it less appealing to social players that historically made halo as populated as they were.
While many seem unhappy with aiming my experience has been fine in that regard the game handles just fine on XSX while i only played it on pc in beta i kinda like the controller for halos over K&M its just my preference. So anecdotally its not a concern but i can see it being a big issue
343i when using the word competitive have acknowledged and shown they consider that the same as HCS/MLG competition play. Or at least the catering of that particular sub set, eho they assume are the most important core demographic to appease in most cases.
They are chasing that crowed again in their design choices and priorities and i retain the stance that is a fundamentally flawed approach to halo.
There lots of positive things covered in the update video but sadly it also doubles down on an approach to halo philosophically opposed to what the wider fan base and market appear to want from the product. At least if the comments ive seen in relation to HI and 343i are indicitive of the wider margin.
In closing the problem is a belief that the game must be competative because at its best it was about being a fun interactive party game masquerading as an arena fps.
If there are more oppertunity for fun regardless of a match outcome and a steady stream of reward via progression for conpleteing a match and trying to pull off some mad man gambits when the chips are down quitting would not be as ubiquitous as it is now.
Dont punish players for playing reward them for playing.
You may have a different outlook thats cool two.
But dont assume you are so smart as to know other’s thoughts more deeply than they do themselves as its a pretty poor way to conduct discourse.
read your your first paragraph only. You replied to me. I made a statement, you dismissed what i expressed, i explained it further, you still didn’t get the point, now you feel victimized because you believe im calling you what you “believe” is a “competitive” player and not what i believe a competitive player is.
edit- also whhen i say “you” i am referring to people iin general. dont take it so personal
To me, it seems very obvious that a community focused “casual” game can be molded into a competitive experience if that is what the community wants. But a competitive game cannot be made uncompetitive. Focusing solely on competition fundamentally means that community creation is going to be 100x harder.
Yeah I pretty much noped on out as soon as he said that. Halo is party game like Smash or Mario Kart. They are just limiting their audience buy thinking esports is the way to go. They need to focus on fun first.
The difference with the Bungie games is that they made the game to be a community focused space first, and those tools and goodwill allowed them to tweak the games to fit a more competitive experience. I don’t think that anyone wants 343i to abandon the competitive community. They have just as much claim to the series as the less competitive crowd. The issue here is that they have full committed to the competitive experience on fundamental level, and that has seriously hurt the last couple of games from a casual point of view.
I replied to your statements that were sweeping generalisations about the fan base to show that it was not accurate.
I never got any impression you were calling me a competitive player i was pointing out that
A.) Not all players are competitve by your own deffinition. I was just an example of that.
B.) 343is approach and understanding of competitive appears to be routed in the ranked competition demographic of player.
Not sumply one who has a desire to win any given match.
I dont feel victimised at all.
And while I dont take any of this personally the use of you in your reply very much reads as being directed at me so perhaps use a differjng syntax in future to avoid confusion.
Particularly when you say things like “you feel victimised” that does not read as general and again comes across as you assuming others thoughts and feelings when you could have asked rsther than stated and avoided any unwanted animosity.
I just pointed out your assumption was misguided in being stated as a general truth.
I replied to each of your point and provided context as to why I personally did not agree with or at least did not have an opnion on said point.
If I am missing nuance in your statements please provide an explanation to where I am mistaken.
Im far more i terested in learning from discourse here than pushing any agenda.
I dont see how i dissmissed any simple stated they werent true as a general statement like your comments inplied.
That paragraph has a very clear meaning i never dissmissed it could be true for you or many in any way simply showed it was false in how it was applied to the entire fandom and that i did not share the opinion that the connotation was the crux of the issue.
Nor is the issue one of belief. You outlineddefinition but given the context and sxtions of 343i its not a belief to acknowledge what goals the studio is persuing and why.
Also please read an entire post before responding to it in future.
Whoever you aee speaking to deserves that much in the least.
No one plays a match not to win. Even if you dont care about the end result, you still play to have fun which involves winniing battles. The fun should not come from winning but the challenge, the competitiveness, the desire to win. No one wants to be steamrolled or the one steamrolling. competitiveness can be chilled or sweaty. they are 2 different behaviours in the same competition. when players chill and play, they take more risk but their ultimate goal is still to win fights. Anyone not following the rules of the game is just sccrewing up matchmaking and should go play a ccustom game or something.
I was talking about the previous sentences. In that quote though i am referring to you.
i mean you could have taken my first statement anyway you wanted but i explained it in the reply and it was explained in another comment in this thread. You took my explanation as an attack when i was just explaining what competitiveness acctually is, why everyone wants it and what people are confusing it with. I think 343 share similar views to me but didnt execute it right. Everyone thinks 343 is obsessed with HCS and forget btb also exists. its obviouus 343 want a good balance of what players want. there are barely any ranked modes. If anything, they havent been competitive enough and have ruined the game with the challenge system
Well I certainly do not play to lose.
But a good few of my friends and I do not play to win. That is to say the fun is not derived from winning be that the match or the minute to minute encounter.
We play for the fun of, well, playing. The social aspect also being a big part of the allure.
When we hop into any title we do so because we want to unwind catch up and just generally enjot each others company and mess about.
Sure you might get on the odd hot streak and get pulled into the want to win mentality but its not remotely the core appeal of playing halo. Its the stories, spectacle and just fun of engaging in the sandbox.
This presumption that your experience and motivations to play are shared by everyone is the very thing I am trying to dispel.
The fun of the game for others is not tied to any form of competition but rather participation and interaction in the social conrtuct of the game.
The challenge as you call it the battle between 2 players to succeed is not gonna appeal to all.
Thats exactly why ill often be playing with a guy who wants to pick up a needler over something with more utility, cause he thinks its neat he likes to use it and often it will get him killed and sometimes how it lead to that outcome will be the highlight of the match for us.
Because the want to overcome the opposition is not the main drive of fun factor. The experiences and how they are shared are. And that is not ignoring the “rules” its a party game and wanting to use the pretty pink splodey gun instead of the infinitely better BR is a perfectly valid choice. Even with the knowledge it will mean losing more than winning. We have social playlists to be social and have fun. Not to win. If you want to play to win ranked is clearly catering to that. Sadly i feel the playlists/maps do niether very well in infinite as a whole.
I wholeheartedly do not agree as I can attest to that not being the case for all players. (Again my issue was your willingness to express your subjective experience as analagous to the overaching truth of the matter, in case that is still unclear.)
It may not be the prevailing cause of play ilI grant you. But it does appeal to a more casual audience in abig way and it is certainly true halos success in a large part was due to cracking an audience of more casual players alongside the competitive minded. Many of those casual people being like those who I play online with often and who have lost interest in infinite but have grown fond of mcc, some having no prior experiences with halo at all.
Is that not fair to say or do you dispute that?
Ok so perhaps try to use clearer language in future then.
And again assuming to know how others are feeling/thinking tends to lead to misunderstanding so all I can do is suggest trying not to. Especially in forums where you dont know to whom you are speaking or their intended tone/inflection by the limitations of a text based forum.
And again.
I did not take anything personally or to heart or felt i was a victim.
In no way did i think you were attacking me but again you made an assumption that you had the insight to know my thoughts or that i did not agree due to a lacking comprehension but so far you’ve done nothing to convince me that either of those scenarios is accurate to the reality.
I looked at what appears to be your definition and simply stated that I do not conflate pro and competitive as you have repeatedly suggested or that the community is wrong to interprete 343is use of competitive as being guided towards the HCS/Streamer demographic.
Btb was billed as this huge return and still was made in a fashion as to reduce chaos and make it more agreeable to said market.
The issue is core design being predicated on competitive viability in the pro scene.
HCS is just a term used to signify it, a label of sorts, short hand.
its not that we believe every facet of the game has been dictated by that platfrom.
However, there are half measures to avoid competitive inbalance in infinite in all its features both competitive as a platform and in your definition as a want to win.
A design of anti loss aversion.
This is seen in equipment thus far being player emperment tools not map elements as seen in H3.
The down side of use is greatly reduced. And thus so is the ensuing chaos in unpredictability.
Not that those elements are entirely removed mind you. Simply reduced.
Vehicle down states.
Flimsy Scorpions that dont spawn most games anyway.
Lense flare so bright simba thinks he owns the badlands.
You may see these as beneficial and that is a valid position.
The point is fun as a concept is not predicated on balance of fairness and sometimes tilting things in the “wrong” direction is actually a better facilitator of fun.
Particularly in a lower barrier to entry casual party game.
Am I making my point intelligible or am I failing?
The best way i can put it is melee and h2 had exploits that fundamentally broke the game in both competitive definitions but made so much fun in the process that the community created rulesets to incorporate or remove them depending on player but in the end people still had the freedom in the social settings to pick kirby or mewtwo and have a wacky fun ole time maybe get a few cheap hammer kos or likewise dual wield those sick looking smgs or needlers and have fun looking dope as well and firing a bazzillion little toothpicks or getting that one random cheap rocket kill and taking death in the process.
Those were memorable tangibile experiences that brought players back with no expectation of winning a battle or match.
But rather just savouring the thrill of the games carnage as you caught up with the buds you hadnt seen all week.
I hope i havent come across as antagonistic in trying express why i think you are missing part of the halo puzzle here.
Ultimately the community appears frustrated with 343i homogeneous design philosophy and how it feel counter to earlier installments’ approach to priority.
I do not think its fair to wave these concerns away by labelling them as due to the misinterpretation of or connotations connected with the word competitive.
Regardless of it all thanks. Ive been waiting to hear how a family member in hospital is doing and this back and forth was a welcomed distraction for the last couple hours.
Ill be sure to reply sometime tomorrow to whatever your responce is, if there is any.
The worst part about that is that they can absolutely have the best of both worlds just by nature of the existence of ranked playlists. Like theres literally no reason to make social playlists skill based if they already have skill based ranked matchmaking. So yea i really dont believe them when they say they want Halo to be a community unless its in reference to an esports community
